Do you agree with the Skating Lesson's views on Davis/White? | Page 4 | Golden Skate

Do you agree with the Skating Lesson's views on Davis/White?

Tonichelle

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Jun 27, 2003
I have a cousin who is sent by a US company and currently working and living with his family in Qatar. He and his family come back to US once a year. The forieners there are exempt from wearing veils while their country women have to cover head to toes. But the foriengers are restricted not to wear any clothes that would show woman's bare shoulders. Since where they live has such hot weather, to be themselves is to wear anything they want by their own country's standard. Should the foriengers break the customs of that country and wear tanktops just because they could wear them at public places like malls in their own countries? My cousin's wife always puts on extra clothes with sleeves that cover at least half of her arms when she goes out.

Seems a bit different than what the Gay athletes and fans are being told for Sochi, though, right?
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
So say, somehow, the Olympics are done in the Middle East - one of the very "conservative" countries.

All women MUST be dressed head to toe a certain way, and ALL must follow the religious customs of the country. Jews, Christians, Muslims all have to break their "orthodox" customs to fit in with the custom of the host country.

Am I taking an extreme to make an example? yes. But I think this is how some athletes are feeling it will be in Sochi. And instead of saying something different Putin and Co just keep saying "you will be punished." Doesn't help people feel "safe" to be themselves and do as they always have.

This is a good example, Toni, and it shows that there are certain parts of the world whose cultures might yet be ready for some kinds of international events. The problem with Russia as an Olympic site is that at the time the site was chosen, this law hadn't been made, and it never occurred to anyone that such a point of controversy might arise in a country that is so central to international sports. Now that the law is in effect, it's too late to relocate the Games, as it is too late to change the venue of the beauty pageant coming up soon, where the gay emcee had to decide whether he should even attend.

Especially because skating is a sport with so many gay participants (coaches and choreographers as well as skaters), it's something that we fans find an area of concern. As you said about yourself, even being socially and religiously conservative doesn't remove the worry that the Olympians are going somewhere that makes it at least awkward and maybe dangerous just to show up. After all, you're not thinking of what it means to be gay. You're thinking of the people. Are they safe? Do they have to behave differently in what will, for two weeks, be the most public place, and the most extensively televised event, in Russia?

What constitutes a violation of the law? What misstep can get some young athlete in trouble? Equally important, what kind of security forces does the Olympic Village have? If local people who hate gay culture want to make an example of some athlete, can they get to the athlete and rough him up? These are questions that shouldn't be issues at the Olympic Games, but they are. (And that's leaving out the situation of Russians who are affected by the law.)
 

Tonichelle

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What constitutes a violation of the law? What misstep can get some young athlete in trouble?

Exactly. "Gay Propaganda" is a VERY vague term. If it's a mistranslation then the law makers need to help explain it to the visitors. Ignorance of the law is no excuse, but it's just poor hosting skills to not care if people understand what they can and cannot do that is outside the IOC norm.
 

dorispulaski

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I agree, and it's a good point, Toni, as was the point that Meryl & Charlie may not actually Agree on this subject., which is bound to make any answer they make very awkward.
 
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Aug 16, 2009
Whatever happens, I think that Russia has rendered itself unsuitable as a site for many international events, especially those involving young people, for the foreseeable future. It goes both ways. Visitors might not feel they know enough about the parameters of the law to feel safe (or they might disagree with the law), and Russia might not want all those dissenters crossing into their country--not just participants in the events but also spectators.
 

Bluebonnet

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Aug 18, 2010
Seems a bit different than what the Gay athletes and fans are being told for Sochi, though, right?

I don't think Russian authorities want to highlight or focus on this conflict during Sochi Olympics. They are trying to avoid it as much as possible. The problem is the gay activists want to push it into the Olympics.
 

WeakAnkles

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Aug 1, 2011
Gee, I can't imagine why Russian authorities don't want to highlight a law that is so reprehensible it has already driven one person to suicide.
:rolleye:
 

Bluebonnet

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Aug 18, 2010
This is where US is heading but Russia doesn't want to:

http://news.yahoo.com/lgbt-students...-142747000.html;_ylt=A2KJ3CYJ_GdS3HUAl1DQtDMD

First, students enter their first name, exactly as it appears on their Social Security card. They follow with last name, Social Security number and date of birth. The next question: gender.

"Select male if you are male," the form advises. "Select female if you are female."

After a few simple questions, parents take the reins to enter income and other financial data.

Pretty straightforward, right? Not necessarily.
 

dorispulaski

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:confused:

BB, the article doesn't exactly make your case.

Sexual orientation and gender identity is the No. 1 reason for youth homelessness in the U.S., notes Krever.

Close to 40 percent of homeless youth identify as LGBT, according to a 2012 report. Of those teens, 46 percent ran away because their family rejected their sexual orientation or gender identity.

Forty-three percent were forced out of their homes for the same reason, notes the report, which surveyed 356 agencies serving homeless youth. The survey does not account for teens who have friends or extended family to turn to, or who don't go to these agencies for housing or support.

You mean the Russians want a more accepting environment for gay children than the US? I don't think so.
 

Bluebonnet

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Aug 18, 2010
:confused: Doris, I was talking about the difficulty in determining who is male and who is female. Such black and white question will be difficult to determine in the foreseeable future in America. Or maybe seperating male and female is a discrimination?:sarcasm:

Here are a few posts under that article:

Really?! We are going to get worked up because forms have a male or female checkbox. Have we sunk that low as a society?

And so it goes, America, now the lines between genders are becoming blurred ... with more than a little thanks to team LGBT.

I was tolerant of gays until gays became intolerable.
 

Tonichelle

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I do agree that the argument of gender is getting a little "too PC"... but I don't think the law that Russia has is protecting against gender-confusion any more than I think that a form on a college ap is the problem in the US.
 

Bluebonnet

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I do agree that the argument of gender is getting a little "too PC"... but I don't think the law that Russia has is protecting against gender-confusion any more than I think that a form on a college ap is the problem in the US.

I believe it does. A decade or two of American media and entertainment pollution (and now they are polluting American schools) have truly put on strain on American youth development.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Doris, I was talking about the difficulty in determining who is male and who is female.

Gay men are men. Lesbian women are women. There is a small number of transgender people who feel that "God gave me the wrong body." This has always been the case. It has nothing to do with changes in the way society thinks about sexuality, except that perhaps with better education we will come to feel more sympathetic and supportive of the challenges that this group of people struggle with, and of the difficult choices that they face.
 

Tonichelle

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Gay men are men. Lesbian women are women. There is a small number of transgender people who feel that "God gave me the wrong body." This has always been the case. It has nothing to do with changes in the way society thinks about sexuality, except that perhaps with better education we will come to feel more sympathetic and supportive of the challenges that this group of people struggle with, and of the difficult choices that they face.

yeah but the article wasn't suggesting that, actually I'm not even sure what the ultimate point was other than to say the LGBT community is having issues with college applications asking for Gender.

As for American pollution... I'll try to play nice and say that while I can't really speak out about how things were twenty years ago when I was at the most eight years old... I do know that a lot of European influence made its way over here in how we looked and talked about sex and nudity as entertainment. I hardly see Russia as a Puritan colony when it comes to sexuality. If we're arguing which is the bigger "sin" then everything I've ever read - religious or otherwise - puts both on the same level.
 

Bluebonnet

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Aug 18, 2010
Gay men are men. Lesbian women are women. There is a small number of transgender people who feel that "God gave me the wrong body." This has always been the case. It has nothing to do with changes in the way society thinks about sexuality, except that perhaps with better education we will come to feel more sympathetic and supportive of the challenges that this group of people struggle with, and of the difficult choices that they face.

I do agree that we should be more sympathetic and supportive. That doesn't mean that we should play along with them. If the transgender people struggle that much and hate their own bodies that much, there is something wrong. They are living in denial. They don't want to face the reality. Either their parents or their living environment did damage to them mentally or maybe physically during their growing up. What they really need is mental and medical help instead of dragging the entire society down with them.
 

TontoK

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The gender issue on college applications is probably a holdover from bygone days when universities and the government had an interest in equality in admissions. Funny that the situation has reversed, and now women outnumber men in college.

The "race" block is another troubling one... especially since so many kids are of mixed racial descent. Tiger Woods made headlines when he first joined the PGA tour when he commented on his racial background. Although commonly "bucketed" as AA, his heritage is majority of other races.

My son tells me that "race" is irrelevant as a category of people nowadays... that more and more genetic studies show it to be nothing... and "cultural background" is more meaningful. I'm not entirely sure I buy that... since it implies that all persons with black skin (as an example) have the same cultural background and upbringing.

I have kids at the school where I teach ask me what race they should check on their college applications.

None of them (yet) have asked me what gender to choose, but I suppose they could one day.

My son generally checks "Asian-Pacific." He's a mix of Native American, White European, and Japanese... that we know of anyway.
 

Tonichelle

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My grandfather got mad at me during the last Census (I worked in the Census office) because there was no place to check mark "American" when it asked for race. He didn't want to choose what color of skin (since Whites don't get to choose the "Cultural Background" that they identify with), just where he came from.
 

TontoK

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My grandfather got mad at me during the last Census (I worked in the Census office) because there was no place to check mark "American" when it asked for race. He didn't want to choose what color of skin (since Whites don't get to choose the "Cultural Background" that they identify with), just where he came from.

Funny. Our family also leaves the "race" box blank. That whole thing about Internment Camps for Japanese Americans... touchy subject.

In fact, I leave everything blank except for the number of people who live at my address... that seems sufficient to satisfy the Constitutional requirement to enumerate the people every 10 years. I do not answer any of the absurd questions about how many toilets our home has, or how many cars we drive and such as that.
 
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