Random Figure Skating Questions
- Thread starter tulosai
- Start date
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2012
So, just checking because I feel like I should know this but I have way too much info in my head at the moment:
Brendan = 13 or higher = Brendan + Andrew 2017, yes?
Brendan must place tenth or above to get two spots for Australia in 2017.
Go, Brendan :yay:.
So, just checking because I feel like I should know this but I have way too much info in my head at the moment:
Brendan = 13 or higher = Brendan + Andrew 2017, yes?
Karne,
Wikipedia has a good explanation and even a handy chart here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Figure_Skating_Championships#Eligibility_and_qualifying
The only problem is that it says placements are used, with no explanation of the fact that the placements used are not always the actual places. Sometimes the placements used are lower than the actual places, making it easier to qualify skaters. To get two spots, top skater has to be:
top 10 if they are only skater
top 12 if second-best qualified for long program (12+16=28)
ETA: or 13th if other skater is 14th or 15th
top 10 if second-best didn't qualify for long program (10+18=28)
Last edited:
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2012
Not trying to pick a fight, but will give an additional two cents from me, in case helpful to anyone:
- I do not like the following shorthand/oversimplification, which I think is potentially confusing to someone who does not already have a fuller understanding of the rules (I do not mean you, karne 
):
- The link to the ISU document with the rules (and with a good chart) is readily accessible.
I included it in post #3079 above, and quoted most, but not all, of the relevant section. (I did not attempt to copy the chart in the ISU document into my post above.)
):Hypothetical example:
The shorthand "works" only if someone already has a fuller understanding of the rules.
Suppose that Chartrand had placed 13th overall.
And suppose that Daleman had qualified for the FS and was Canada's second-best lady ... with a placement of 15th overall.
Canada would get two ladies spots for the next year.
Chartrand did not have to place in the top 12.
And suppose that Daleman had qualified for the FS and was Canada's second-best lady ... with a placement of 15th overall.
Canada would get two ladies spots for the next year.
Chartrand did not have to place in the top 12.
The shorthand "works" only if someone already has a fuller understanding of the rules.
- The link to the ISU document with the rules (and with a good chart) is readily accessible.
I included it in post #3079 above, and quoted most, but not all, of the relevant section. (I did not attempt to copy the chart in the ISU document into my post above.)
I don't understand why the Wikipedia entry would be preferred as a source, esp. when it is known (thx to NanaPat) to be deficient. YMMV.
Again, I am not trying to pick a fight.
But when I took the trouble to answer the original question, my motivation was to shed light on the rules -- not to lead anyone to become more confused over them.
My additional posts have been in the same spirit.
Last edited:
- Joined
- May 20, 2015
Okay, here's some questions that I'm sure some people will think I am dumb for asking.
It's about edge vs. toe jumps and success/safety of quads.
1) It looks like there are some skaters who are better at edge jumps than toe jumps? Is it really straight down the line that for a lot of these skaters?
2) Is that why Max Aaron does the 4S-3T in the SP and a 4S and 4S in the LP? Is it the slight point advantage over the 4T or is it really that the jump itself is easier for him? His 3A and 3Lo are also pretty good.
3) Or does the takeoff make the 4T that much easier than the 4S?
4) Considering the G forces with quad jumps, would it make it safer with falls to try a 4S first if you are more secure with edge jumps? Or does it matter? I'm thinking about Joshua Farris - if/when he fully recovers, would it be better for him to try the 4S than the 4T? Like Max, his salchow, axel, and loop jumps are pretty good. I've been nervous when I've seen some of his takeoffs on his 4T and he has gotten edge calls on his 3F.
It's about edge vs. toe jumps and success/safety of quads.
1) It looks like there are some skaters who are better at edge jumps than toe jumps? Is it really straight down the line that for a lot of these skaters?
2) Is that why Max Aaron does the 4S-3T in the SP and a 4S and 4S in the LP? Is it the slight point advantage over the 4T or is it really that the jump itself is easier for him? His 3A and 3Lo are also pretty good.
3) Or does the takeoff make the 4T that much easier than the 4S?
4) Considering the G forces with quad jumps, would it make it safer with falls to try a 4S first if you are more secure with edge jumps? Or does it matter? I'm thinking about Joshua Farris - if/when he fully recovers, would it be better for him to try the 4S than the 4T? Like Max, his salchow, axel, and loop jumps are pretty good. I've been nervous when I've seen some of his takeoffs on his 4T and he has gotten edge calls on his 3F.
Last edited:
Thank you very much.
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2013
- Country
-
Not dumb questions at all.
1) Yes, it can be. Using myself as a (bad) example. Jumps were taught to me in order thus: S, T, Lo, F, Lz. I hate the Salchow and mine is small, poor, and swingy. I learned the mechanics of a toe-loop in ten minutes and was doing good-sized ones by the end of that lesson. My loop is the jump for which <<< was invented and regularly fails to actually take off. I can land the flip and am just ironing out a few kinks in the height vs rotation area. I'm working on the Lutz and find that easier than the loop. Some skaters really prefer edge jumps than others.
2) I actually think that yes, 4S is probably easier for Max than 4T. As you noted, his other edge jumps are good (though his toe jumps are by no means deficient). When we did see the 4T in competition from Max, he regularly struggled with his speed going into the jump.
3) It is quite possible that in spite of conventional wisdom he finds the takeoff for the 4S easier than the 4T.
4) I doubt it would make a difference when learning a more advanced version of the jump. You're going to eat ice anyway, so it's going to be a hard fall regardless. In the vein with Josh, I think his jumps can't be delineated in that fashion. Yes, his 3A and 3Lo are superb, but his 3Lz, 3F and 4T are all also excellent and his 3S is actually often swingy, so in this case, switching quad attempts probably wouldn't make a difference. He did once mention that he found 4F quite easy...
- Joined
- May 2, 2015
- Country
-
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
- Country
-
champs, I moved the "Translation Requests" thread back from the archives to this forum (References), and copied your post into it. I hope you will find someone to answer your question.
At the Youth olympics there were no Ice Resurfacing between 2nd and 3rd group. This happened both in pairs (SP, 10 pairs) and in Ice dance (SD, 12 teams). What does the rules say about this? When is it obligatory to have an Ice Resurfacing? I noticed that there will be an Ice Resurfacing between 2nd and 3rd group in the pairs FS. I wonder why wasn't there one in SP.
Where do you start the angle when measuring the rotations for lutzs and flips? (1)The angle of the edge when the toepick hits the ground, (2)the angle of the toepick at some point, (3) or is it opposite the direction of momentum in the air? Or something else. For some reason I thought (1) but now I'm pretty sure it's (3).
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2013
- Country
-
Do you mean the rotation of the jump, or the takeoff edge to determine if it's correct or not?
It'll be 1), the angle of the edge when the toepick goes in, if you mean the edge.
I'm not talking about edge correctness here... I want to know when to start the rotation counter.
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2014
Keep in mind that there're several determining factors, not just blade angles. Body angles and traces curved on ice also come into play when the tech caller examines the rotations. Also, the rotation is not the total sum of rotation a skater made in the air. The angles of take-off and landing are counted separately, in relation to the jump's direction (I guess you have read it but it's explained in Tech Handbook pp.16-7).
Imagine a skater is jumping counter clockwise and the whole direction of jump is parallel to the vertical axis (from 12 to 6). (applies to all jumps except axel)
Take-off:
- If the skater leaves ice within 6 to almost 12 then the jump is considered clean.
- If the skater clearly leaves at 12 (=completely forward) it gets <<.
(Remember judges do not use slow-mo for examining take-off. I recently read a former figure skater saying that cheated take-off mostly applies when there's a wobble going into a jump. eg: A skater tries to put the second jump after the messy landing of the first jump.)
Landing:
- If the skater lands before reaching 12 then the jump gets <<.
- If the skater lands within 12 to 9 then it gets <.
- The jump is considered clean if it is landed at 9 and beyond.
The most annoying thing about this is that there isn't a clear explanation done by ISU to fans (as far as I looked)... so this is what I gathered, based on what actual skaters and former skaters explained in their blogs and SNS. Hope it helps you!
Last edited:
Laetitia Hubert, 1998 short program
Also Alice Sue Claeys used music from The Piano for part of her freeskate in 1996, but it wasn't televised.
Also Alice Sue Claeys used music from The Piano for part of her freeskate in 1996, but it wasn't televised.
Thanks, gkelly!
By the way, from 1:19 to 1:38, is that spiral sequences?? What was the rule back then exactly? So you didn't have to hold positions for certain seconds or raise your free leg higher than your hip?
I'd have to do some research to see if I could find exactly what the rules were at the time. As far as I can recall, the official name of the element was "spiral step sequence," a spiral was defined as an edge held with the free foot at or above hip height, and there was no requirement at the time for the number of spirals in the sequence or the length of time each was held. (The rules did start getting stricter the following year.)
Still, my friends and I were surprised the judges apparently gave full credit to that as a spiral sequence, although we liked it as a piece of choreography.
Similar threads
