Which American Men do you want on the Olympic Team? | Page 8 | Golden Skate

Which American Men do you want on the Olympic Team?

80sskatergirl

Rinkside
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Mar 13, 2013
Where did you get the sense that the USFSA was considering the entire season's results? and/or that Max was already in? He certainly shouldn't be based on his results so far!
I just think his scores at nationals might be somewhat inflated based on what he is capable of, not necessarily how he performs, because he proved at worlds he can match up with the top 6. Sort of how Ashley Wagner ended up with first this past nationals, even though her free skate was atrocious.
 

80sskatergirl

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 13, 2013
And to add to the above, I did read somewhere that Usfsa will consider results of the season in addition to placement at nationals. Ill see if I can find it and post. Japan's federation does the same thing (leaves it a little more open in case a favorite bombs at nationals).
 

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And to add to the above, I did read somewhere that Usfsa will consider results of the season in addition to placement at nationals. Ill see if I can find it and post. Japan's federation does the same thing (leaves it a little more open in case a favorite bombs at nationals).

Regarding the U.S., I believe you are referring to the discussion in this thread.

The U.S. Figure Skating selection procedures for Sochi are in this 73-page PDF:

And yes, technically the U.S. rules do allow for consideration of results other than 2014 Nats.
 

wordsworthgirl

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Joined
Sep 12, 2013
Regarding the U.S., I believe you are referring to the discussion in this thread.

The U.S. Figure Skating selection procedures for Sochi are in this 21-page PDF:

And yes, technically the U.S. rules do allow for consideration of results other than 2014 Nats.

I think this is actually a good policy , because what if someone who's been consistently great all season has the flu the week of Nationals and flubs their programs? I also think that Max has lost or should lose any privileged position he had going into this year with 3 bad competitions in a row (SLC, Skate America- long was ok but short was dismal, and NHL). If he pulls things together and has a great Nationals then he can be back in the thick of things, but as of now, the team has got to include Adam and either Jeremy or Jason/Josh depending on how they do in their remaining competitions. Sadly I think Ross has been dismal in every competition since last year's Nationals and unless he performs brilliantly in his remaining competition and at Nationals, they will not send him.
 

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I think this is actually a good policy , because what if someone who's been consistently great all season has the flu the week of Nationals and flubs their programs? I also think that Max has lost or should lose any privileged position he had going into this year with 3 bad competitions in a row (SLC, Skate America- long was ok but short was dismal, and NHL). If he pulls things together and has a great Nationals then he can be back in the thick of things, but as of now, the team has got to include Adam and either Jeremy or Jason/Josh depending on how they do in their remaining competitions. Sadly I think Ross has been dismal in every competition since last year's Nationals and unless he performs brilliantly in his remaining competition and at Nationals, they will not send him.

Max won the bronze at Skate America -- sixth place SP + second place FS.
Abbott won the bronze at NHK -- seventh place SP (would you call that dismal?) + third place FS.

So .. I don't see that Abbott is clearly having a better season than Max.

I wasn't aware that Max ever had a privileged position in terms of selection of the Olympic team. :confused2:

And BTW, if Max really had had the opportunity to compete in the NHL [forgive me, I couldn't help noticing your innocent typo ;)], then I think he might reconsider whether to pursue an Olympic slot in figure skating, LOL. :rofl:
 

skateluvr

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Long thread, are there Adam fans? like a fine wine he is aging so well! I almost don't care who else, but if Max can do two quads in his LP then it does not matter what else. Funny thing is he makesTimmy Goebel look like a superb artist. Timmy did work so hard on presentation. Such a fast turner in the air. But Max- Wow, he really has no skating skills-just let him blaze and jump! Ross is simply not world class and I don't think he ever will be. I wish Lysacek was returning fo real.
 

wordsworthgirl

Medalist
Joined
Sep 12, 2013
Max won the bronze at Skate America -- sixth place SP + second place FS.
Abbott won the bronze at NHK -- seventh place SP (would you call that dismal?) + third place FS.

So .. I don't see that Abbott is clearly having a better season than Max.

I wasn't aware that Max ever had a privileged position in terms of selection of the Olympic team. :confused2:

And BTW, if Max really had had the opportunity to compete in the NHL [forgive me, I couldn't help noticing your innocent typo ;)], then I think he might reconsider whether to pursue an Olympic slot in figure skating, LOL. :rofl:

Oh my gosh, golden411, that is hilarious about my typo! :) I know some people on this board have described Max as skating like a hockey player.

Someone above said that Max did have a privileged position- was considered a lock to make the team- that's what I was referring to.

I think the thing re Max's season is that he was just awful at SLC too and he hasn't shown much improvement and the thing that sets him apart- his quad- has mostly deserted him. Jeremy had a strong skate at Japan Open, then a terrible competition, and then a great one. He is also a much more complete skater and with a clean program could potentially even medal at Olympics. Max without his jumps just can't score well and he doesn't have his jumps yet. That's not to say he won't get them, but if we had to vote today, I would vote for Adam for sure and probably Jeremy or Jason/Josh who are both more complete skaters than Max.

Also, Max's short at Skate America was much worse/more error-ridden than Jeremy's at NHK- the competition at NHK was stiffer and so Jeremy ended up 7th but only out of third by a tiny margin. In the Olympics, a short like the one Max skated at Skate America/NHK would have him totally out of contention while Jeremy's NHK short would probably have him much higher up.

I am not a Max hater at all- I love his personality and admire his work ethic and athleticism but without his jumps being solid, consistent, and strong, I don't think he should go to Olympics or Worlds.
 

karne

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Oh my gosh, golden411, that is hilarious about my typo! :) I know some people on this board have described Max as skating like a hockey player.

Max IS a former hockey player. He was even Team USA. He played until he was 16.

I think the thing re Max's season is that he was just awful at SLC too and he hasn't shown much improvement and the thing that sets him apart- his quad- has mostly deserted him.

I disagree. Max has been improving with every outing.

Jeremy had a strong skate at Japan Open, then a terrible competition, and then a great one. He is also a much more complete skater and with a clean program could potentially even medal at Olympics.

But Jeremy is also a total headcase and having had one or two good skates this season is not likely to do so again. That has been his pattern for the last four years. Jeremy is a gorgeous skater and very complete as you say - but he is much, much more likely to implode than Max is.

I am not a Max hater at all- I love his personality and admire his work ethic and athleticism but without his jumps being solid, consistent, and strong, I don't think he should go to Olympics or Worlds.

I disagree. Max always fights for every program and on that alone I would sooner see him go than some who seem to roll over and die when things get rough.
 

wordsworthgirl

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Sep 12, 2013
Max IS a former hockey player. He was even Team USA. He played until he was 16.



I disagree. Max has been improving with every outing.



But Jeremy is also a total headcase and having had one or two good skates this season is not likely to do so again. That has been his pattern for the last four years. Jeremy is a gorgeous skater and very complete as you say - but he is much, much more likely to implode than Max is.



I disagree. Max always fights for every program and on that alone I would sooner see him go than some who seem to roll over and die when things get rough.

Wow he is a former hockey player?! That's great! Re improvement, I am in the minority of people who actually think he has improved artistically since last year- I think he's shown a lot of growth. But I do think NHK was a step back for him with the sole exception of actually landing a quad. and Jeremy showed that he could fight back from being in a bad position at NHK in rising from 7th to 3rd and in recovering from the early mistake on the quad.

But again, Max may well be looking fantastic by January. However, he is clearly not as competition ready without his jumps intact as either Adam or Jeremy at this point. and I'm hoping Jason and Josh wow us in the next few weeks as well!
 

wordsworthgirl

Medalist
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Sep 12, 2013
And you know what else? I wish more than anything that we had 3 spots for the men. We actually have many more promising men than ladies this year. I wish Max, Adam, Jeremy, Josh, Jason, and Ross could ALL go! They each have wonderful, unique qualities that I appreciate.

Further reassurance on Max though: I think this may be his big transition season where he is stretching and pushing himself hard to leap up from where he was, and he's going through necessary rough patches, false starts, errors etc all in the ultimate service of enormous growth and development. I have the utmost confidence that he will be a very successful skater for years to come- he has a fabulous work ethic, great athletic ability, and an openness to critique and honesty about his own current limitations/shortcomings which make it possible for him to really try to improve and develop. I also love his humility. He's adorable and immensely talented.
 

mjames

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 16, 2008
Macy, I am so with you on Adam and Jeremy!! Adam is looking so strong and with clean programs could actually medal. Seriously! Gorgeous artistry, a quad lutz, and technical fixes from Rafael. A good head space too. and Ashley would be with him to support him!

Re Jeremy: I ADORE his skating and him and want him to break through so badly but he has muffed, failed, or otherwise screwed up so many times now that I just can't hope anymore- it's too painful! and I worry that he could skate great at Nationals and then fall apart at the Olympics- like he did last time! That's one of the reasons why it's so upsetting that we don't have 3 spots- I'd like Jeremy to skate solidly but not fabulously at Nationals (double his 2nd axel and not land his quad but otherwise clean) and then have his perfect performance (8 triples plus quad as he did at 2010 Nationals) at the Olympics and win a bronze!

Re Max- I like him fine as a skater and very much as a person, and I do agree with you that he's made strides with his artistry this year. What I'm worried about are his jumps! I saw him in Salt Lake City and at Skate America and his jumping is off this season! Here's hoping you're right that he'll pull it together in time for Nationals/Worlds.

You put it so well. I think Adam is coming into his own, Jeremy gave us a reminder how good he is when he is on and Max showed this season that his jumps must be landed for him to be nearer the placements of Jeremy and Adam with mistakes.
 

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Oh my gosh, golden411, that is hilarious about my typo! :) I know some people on this board have described Max as skating like a hockey player.

....

I think the thing re Max's season is that he was just awful at SLC too and he hasn't shown much improvement and the thing that sets him apart- his quad- has mostly deserted him. Jeremy had a strong skate at Japan Open, then a terrible competition, and then a great one. He is also a much more complete skater and with a clean program could potentially even medal at Olympics. Max without his jumps just can't score well and he doesn't have his jumps yet. That's not to say he won't get them, but if we had to vote today, I would vote for Adam for sure and probably Jeremy or Jason/Josh who are both more complete skaters than Max.

Also, Max's short at Skate America was much worse/more error-ridden than Jeremy's at NHK- the competition at NHK was stiffer and so Jeremy ended up 7th but only out of third by a tiny margin. In the Olympics, a short like the one Max skated at Skate America/NHK would have him totally out of contention while Jeremy's NHK short would probably have him much higher up.

I am not a Max hater at all- I love his personality and admire his work ethic and athleticism but without his jumps being solid, consistent, and strong, I don't think he should go to Olympics or Worlds.

I see that karne gave you the basic scoop re Max's significant career as a teen hockey player. I could go on and on to tell you more, but will try not to get toooo long-winded:
- Some of Max's hockey buddies from his time on the national squad went on to play in the NHL -- that's why I could not resist my friendly comment on your typo. :)
- Because of Max's relatively small size, his parents and he accepted that the NHL would not be in his future. But Max was scouted by colleges with Division I hockey teams, including the University of Michigan (his father's alma mater), where Max dreamed of playing.
- D-I hockey was a very realistic prospect for Max ... until his career ended when he broke his back. After being in a body cast for months, Max had to re-learn basic movements, such as walking, bending over, etc. He decided to concentrate on figure skating (which he had been juggling with hockey since boyhood). While still in high school, he moved to Colorado Springs to train, leaving most of his family behind in Arizona. The next year (IIRC), Max won junior nationals, and then he moved up to seniors.
- I think you will enjoy this really fun and impressive video montage of some of young Max's hockey action.
I know next to nothing about the sport (so I'm probably going to botch the terminology), but Max's tenacity and fearlessness amid much larger opponents are just magnificent even to my uneducated eye. My favorite play is when he ends up sort of passing to himself to score ... meaning that he passes to the right as he approaches the goal; then skates off to the left and darts behind the goal, scooting back around to the right to the "waiting" puck and shoots it into the goal. :cool:

ETA:
Forgot to say that my current avatar happens to be based on a photo of Max in his hockey jersey. ;)
But I should have already updated my avatar for TEB. Will be changing it soon.​

Back to discussing the American men:
What I really should have said is that I don't see that Abbott is having a much more consistent season than Max.
And overall, I do not find the current landscape as discouraging for Max as you do. A million different comparisons could be made -- some in Max's favor, some not.
- Rippon has beaten Max overall twice this season, although Max beat Rippon in the FS at Skate America.
- Abbott has beaten Max once, although Max also won a GP bronze.
- Max beat Brown overall at Skate America, although Brown was well ahead in the SP.
- Max beat Farris in SLC, although it was early in the season.
etc., etc.​

He, like everyone else, MUST be in the top 2 at Nationals to go. None of our men have had a strong enough season to deserve special treatment.
:agree:
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
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FWIW, Max's 162+ in the FS is still the highest among the US men and that program still had a few errors, while Jeremy's 159+ was for a nearly-clean program. And they both have a GP bronze medal.

Max has the ability to reach 90+ TES while Jeremy has been in the low 80s at best.

Point is, I agree with golden411 that the data shows Max in both favorable and unfavorable perspectives. And in general, based on the data we have, Adam is the only one that has a far-and-above positive trending leading up to nationals. Max is not a sure thing, but he's still a contender for the team for sure.

Sadly with Ross out of TEB, we won't be able to see another data point for him before nationals.

Looking forward to seeing how Jason, Josh and Richard do in their second events!
 

karne

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Oh, no! :eek: I hope he'll be totally fine for Nationals!

From what I hear, it's a very small injury in his ankle, but they didn't want to risk making it worse by going to TEB.
 

shanm

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 29, 2003
The two I want on the US team would have to be Max and Adam. If there were three spots, I would have to put Jason Brown in that position. Max normally isn't amazing in the beginning of the season and I will really be shocked if he doesn't make the team. I think Abbott is a headcase and unreliable to an extent. I have always been a fan, but he hardly ever puts it together when it counts. Everyone else is just inconsistent altogether and I don't see Evan coming back.
 

lcd

Match Penalty
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Mar 11, 2007
As always so stunningly useful to see the actual numbers.

"Who is it looking like so far…?" vs. "Who do we want to see" …hmmm
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
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Dec 27, 2009
As always so stunningly useful to see the actual numbers.

"Who is it looking like so far…?" vs. "Who do we want to see" …hmmm

At this point,I think it's going to be a dog fight between Jason, Adam, Max and Jeremy.

Out of the four of them, Max has the biggest BV in the FS with three quads, including one in the second half. His BV allows him to make a few mistakes, but not too many because he doesn't have the other areas to back him up. But if gets that 90+ TES, that will make a key difference.

Jason is great all-around, but he has to be absolutely perfect or make a minimal amount of mistakes. It's crazy to think that he could have scored 165.72 if he got that other axel (BV not accounting for any GOE). However, his non-jump elements are super strong, probably the strongest among the American men. He scored 22 points in his non-jump elements compared to 20.22 for Jeremy at NHK, who also got all level 4 elements.

Adam has been consistent throughout the season and he's been consistent in both segments. It looks like he is mastering the 4T at least, which will give him the edge over Jason if he's clean.

Jeremy is still a question mark. It's great he pulled out a clean program, but that's just one performance. Can he pull it off again at Nationals. If he does, the judges will reward him.

However, all bets are off if Josh and Richard impress at COR next week. Ross is also a question mark since we won't see him compete until nationals.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
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Jun 16, 2010
Ross is pretty much out of it at this point. I cant imagine anything he would do after all his poor performanes since last years Nationals would get him on the team unless it is a disaesterously skated Nationals. Richard and Josh have one last chance to impress like many others have already done at COR and they had better take it. I don't think the U.S judges will give someone the scores who hasn't shown something this season already, even if they skate very well at Nationals.
 
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