# Thread: Mao's Double Loop Problem

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## Mao's Double Loop Problem

Mao often loses points because of < 2Lo. The under rotation penalty isn't too bad, but what is bad is the -GOE she gets for combinations she would otherwise get +GOE on. Although she does sometimes under rotate triples, she at least attacks those jumps. Are these 2 Lo mistakes a result of laziness/sloppiness or is there a technical issue there?

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I don't think there's a technical issue, especially since she is capable of landing a 3L solo (and prior to that a 3F-3L). I think if the rhythm in the first triple is off for her, she doesn't spring up enough to ensure enough height to avoid the UR. Murakami has the same problem. A loop is a difficult jump to get height to begin with since you're essentially using just the leg muscles of the leg you jump and land on. If you don't carry enough speed into it, the risk of UR is increased, hence why skaters prefer the toe loop in combos as it ensures a vault rather than requiring a perfect landing of the first jump to execute a loop in the second part. Part of it might be due to sloppiness because she's clearly capable of doing double loops .

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I think 90% of the time Mao only <2Lo on the three jumps combination and the last jumps got <. I'm not sure what is the base value of 2Lo< is but it does effect the over all GOE of the jump combo. 2Lo will get 1.6 vs 2T 1.2 so its a gamble to get 1 point more than doing 3F+2T+2T.

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I think it's 1.8 for a double loop and 1.3 for a double toe. In fact, a 2Lo< has exactly the same base value as a fully rotated double toe.

But I think drivingmissdaisy has a good point that the problem comes up in negative GOE for the entire combination. At Skate America Mao got < calls on both of the double loops in her 3F+2Lo+2Lo combination, resulting in -0.60 GOE. Maybe a 3F+2T+2Lo would give her a better shot at it?

In any case, we are talking about only a few tenths of a point.

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Originally Posted by Mathman
I think it's 1.8 for a double loop and 1.3 for a double toe. In fact, a 2Lo< has exactly the same base value as a fully rotated double toe.

But I think drivingmissdaisy has a good point that the problem comes up in negative GOE for the entire combination. At Skate America Mao got < calls on both of the double loops in her 3F+2Lo+2Lo combination, resulting in -0.60 GOE. Maybe a 3F+2T+2Lo would give her a better shot at it?

In any case, we are talking about only a few tenths of a point.
Yeah, it doesn't amount to much difference, but it's unfortunate that it does affect the GOE of the whole combo. Theoretically though, it's probably because the first jump is flawed in some way that the 2L would be <.

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Yeah, it doesn't amount to much difference, but it's unfortunate that it does affect the GOE of the whole combo. Theoretically though, it's probably because the first jump is flawed in some way that the 2L would be <.
At NHK, Shizuka said that Mao went into the triple-loop with too much speed and height, therefore having difficulties controlling the landing enough to go into the second jump smoothly.

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Was this the intended combination, or did she plan a 3F+2Lo and then improvise the 3Lo+2Lo on the fly?

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Originally Posted by Mathman
Was this the intended combination, or did she plan a 3F+2Lo and then improvise the 3Lo+2Lo on the fly?
Intended, I think.

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