Skaters who'll be remembered with time as among the greats | Golden Skate

Skaters who'll be remembered with time as among the greats

Moment

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 18, 2013
Current skaters who'll be remembered with time as among the greats

Discuss. My choices are:

1. Yuna Kim

:)

2. Savchenko/Szolkowy, Virtue/Moir (tied)

Being respectively four-time WCs and Oly champs, they have incorporated so much difficulty and originality into their programs without harming the essence of the respective disciplines.

4. Mao Asada

Thanks to her star power figure skating has enjoyed unprecedented popularity in Japan, with the emphasis on her beauty, a 3Axel and the rivalry between her and Yuna Kim (legitimate or not). Despite her weaknesses the current scoring system heavily penalizes, I'm inclined to think her presence and her skating are special enough to be remembered among the greats.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
I'd add Takahashi to this list. He's always been more than just a competitive skater. That quality of artistic maturity and innovation, added to the position he holds in Japanese skating history--first male Olympic medalist, first male World champion--should ensure his legacy, I'd say.

I'd agree about S/S. Their unusual choreography gives pair skating another dimension.

YuNa, Virtue/Moir, and Mao I'd agree to without any argument at all.
 

YesWay

四年もかけて&#
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 28, 2013
Agree with Kim. To be honest, her performances leave me cold, but there is no denying her excellence - never finished off the podium in any competition... that James Bond routine and MONSTROUS record scores to win the 2010 Olympic gold (although I question whether she should have won by THAT margin of points)

Asada for sure too. Unless someone steps up to the plate, she may be remembered as the last female skater to perform triple axels. So many medals... the first woman to complete the GP grand slam (gold at all GP events)... first to land 3 triple axels in a single competition... many performances that stay in your mind, especially the 2012/2013 season (Mary Poppins exhibition!!!)

I don't think Virtue and Moir can be added to the list, without Davis and White: I wonder if either team would have reached they heights they have, without the other to compete against?

Takahashi will surely be remembered for the artistry, expression, passion and personality of his performances, as well as his achievements of course. Mambo!

I'd say Hanyu is also destined to become one of the greats. He has already delivered the most firey, determined and passionate performance I've ever seen (2012 world's FS), and I will always remember him for that, regardless of what he does in future.

I also have high hopes for Lipnitskaia. Last year, she was "just another" Russian gymnastic/athletic wunderkind... but this year she has added such elegance, gracefullness, and convincing emotion and expression. Amazing progress, and she has learned to smile. If she can get through growing pains and continue to develop, she is surely destined for superstardom. Also her axel jump is currently very low, I'm sure if she jumped higher she could manage a triple...!
 

hurrah

Medalist
Joined
Aug 8, 2009
There was a discussion about that on another thread somewhere wasn't there? I got the impression that those who were deemed to be 'great' were characterised by longevity and changing the face of figure skating in some way or another, like Janet Lynn or Dick Button or someone like that.

I think Plush will be remembered as one of the greats because at his height, he was doing 4-3-3 and wonderful triple-axels and he has stayed in the sport for so long.
Michelle Kwan also will be remembered, I think, because while she didn't really advance the sport in any specific way, she did stay in the sport for a very long time, and she will be remembered for being the skater who didn't win the OGM multiple times despite being the favorite.
Patrick, I think, will be remembered because I think he will win the OGM, and his skating skill is jaw-droppingly phenomenal.

As for the others that have been listed, I'm not sure. They will certainly be remembered, but maybe not as one of THE greats because either they haven't stayed in the sport long enough (at least three Olympic cycles, preferably four) or, while they may be the best skater or one of the best skaters of their generation, their greatness isn't guaranteed to withstand the test of time (as of yet).
 

Moment

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 18, 2013
There was a discussion about that on another thread somewhere wasn't there? I got the impression that those who were deemed to be 'great' were characterised by longevity and changing the face of figure skating in some way or another, like Janet Lynn or Dick Button or someone like that.

I think Plush will be remembered as one of the greats because at his height, he was doing 4-3-3 and wonderful triple-axels and he has stayed in the sport for so long.
Michelle Kwan also will be remembered, I think, because while she didn't really advance the sport in any specific way, she did stay in the sport for a very long time, and she will be remembered for being the skater who didn't win the OGM multiple times despite being the favorite.
Patrick, I think, will be remembered because I think he will win the OGM, and his skating skill is jaw-droppingly phenomenal.

As for the others that have been listed, I'm not sure. They will certainly be remembered, but maybe not as one of THE greats because either they haven't stayed in the sport long enough (at least three Olympic cycles, preferably four) or, while they may be the best skater or one of the best skaters of their generation, their greatness isn't guaranteed to withstand the test of time (as of yet).

This thread was started with the intention of discussing currently competing skaters. Please leave Michelle Kwan, Alexei Yagudin, Gordeeva/Grinkov, Torvill/Dean, Dick Button, Ulrich Salchow, Gillis Grafstrom and Sonja Henie and so on out of this.

Evgeni Plushenko is already remembered as one of the greatest. Regardless of the result in Sochi (and whether he competes there or not), I think his legacy will remain mostly unchanged.
 

hurrah

Medalist
Joined
Aug 8, 2009
This thread was started with the intention of discussing currently competing skaters. Please leave Michelle Kwan, Alexei Yagudin, Gordeeva/Grinkov, Torvill/Dean, Dick Button, Ulrich Salchow, Gillis Grafstrom and Sonja Henie and so on out of this.

Evgeni Plushenko is already remembered as one of the greatest. Regardless of the result in Sochi (and whether he competes there or not), I think his legacy will remain mostly unchanged.

Well, okay. I think that of all the current skaters, Patrick actually will the skater that the future generation will recognize as being great. Not that the other skaters aren't great of course.
 

GF2445

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 7, 2012
Tessa Virtue and Scott Moir for sure. So many memorable programs and moments...and the ups and downs, and the injuries, their perfectionism, their kiss and cry reactions (or non-reactions).

They had it all!
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Virtue & Moir, Davis & White, Kim, Asada, Takahashi, Savchenko & Szolkowy, and Voloszhar & Trankov will all be remembered as all time greats. They are the only skaters currently competing who will be.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Well, okay. I think that of all the current skaters, Patrick actually will the skater that the future generation will recognize as being great. Not that the other skaters aren't great of course.

Chan will mostly be remembered as a very controversial figure in the sport with a slew of questionable and heavily ridiculed victories. That will be his main legacy.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
I think Mao Asada will be remembered as a national treasure in Japan, like Michelle Kwan is remembered in the United States. Mao is the face of figure skating in a country where figure skating is still something worth being the face of. ;)

If Yuna Kim wins a second Olympic gold medal, then, like Katarina Witt, it will be impossible for her name to be omitted from any list of the all-time greats.
 

hurrah

Medalist
Joined
Aug 8, 2009
I am not sure that Katarina Witt is on the list of all-time greats despite winning two OGM, but I agree that if Yuna wins a second OGM at Sochi, she would legitimately be on the list of all-time greats.

If Mao can win OGM at Sochi with 8 triples, or wins OGM and also manages to achieve an 8-triple FP sometime during the season, then I think it likely that there will not be another female skater that can replicate the difficulty of her program for a decade or so at least, so then, I think she will achieve a legendary status.

I was never a fan of Patrick until Skate Canada, but he was on a different level even in comparison to his previous self, and I do think that as someone who has won three World medals consecutively from his skating skills most prominently, if he wins OGM at Sochi in a style similar to how he won at Skate Canada, he will be remembered as a legend, no matter how figure skating boards nowadays see him.
 

Icey

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
Most people will remember only the ones that skate during their historical time. Look at the list of winners since the beginning. Even many skating fans don't know their names. How many can you name, off the top of your head (in all disciplines). It is also difficult, even if there are videos available, to compare skaters through the years as the skill set changes.
Henie seems to be the only one that has some level of immortality, but I wonder how much longer that will last.

I see you explained this thread was to be about current skaters. I thought you meant through the years. You need to go back and change the title to Current Skaters Who'll.

At this point, I guess I would say Asada, but I really don't even feel strongly about that and it is based on her 3 triple axels at Vancouver, which in the record books will make her memorable.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Great sports figures are remembered by whom they competed against, as well as for what they did, and could do themselves. One of the reason that Navka & Kostomarov are not immediately though of when we remember skaters & teams as greats (so far) is because the level of competition during their dominant years was not all that high.

Curiously enough, if V&M are remembered as greats, it will be impossible not to remember D&W, too.

If V&M win again in Sochi, D&W will still be remembered. After all, who can think about Muhammed Ali without thinking about Joe Frazier, not to mention George Foreman?

If D&W win in Sochi, they will even more be remembered among the greats, for defeating great champions.
 
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thinspread

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 8, 2013
I do. Actually, I don't even know who are they latter two :S

Yes, Ali! Amazing thing is, I don't think he was in his peak form when he faced Frazier or Foreman. IMO the Ali in black-and-white footages was even quicker and stronger.

On the topic, Chan would definitely make my list if he win OGM with a strong performance. I find his LP this season mesmerizing.
 

Robeye

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Yes, Ali! Amazing thing is, I don't think he was in his peak form when he faced Frazier or Foreman. IMO the Ali in black-and-white footages was even quicker and stronger.

On the topic, Chan would definitely make my list if he win OGM with a strong performance. I find his LP this season mesmerizing.
He wasn't.

As a member of the Nation of Islam, which viewed the conflict in Vietnam as a white man's war that shouldn't be fought by America's oppressed, Ali asserted conscientious objector status when he was drafted--"I aint got no quarrel with the Viet Cong. No Vietcong ever called me N-----." His claim was initially denied by the courts, and Ali was stripped of his titles and boxing license during his peak years while his case made its way to the Supreme Court. When his claim was finally upheld, he was no longer the same boxer.

He was old for a fighter, no longer had the middleweight's blinding speed, and so long away from the ring that he was probably more rust than steel. His wins against Smokin' Joe Frazier, who would come at you and come at you, and keep coming at you until you quit, and George Foreman, then a gigantic manchild with the most feared knockout punch in boxing, were not so much about the almost superhuman physical gifts of his youth, but about Ali's strength of mind and character. He learned how to gain subtle strategic, tactical, and psychological edges against his opponents. But none of these things would have worked without Ali's willingness to take inhuman amounts of physical punishment, often by design (the "Rope a Dope" strategy was nothing less than Ali allowing himself to be pummeled like a punching bag by the truly scary Foreman, so that Foreman's arms would literally be so worn down by fatigue that after a while Foreman was no longer able to swing).

Ali's desire for championship glory took him far beyond the normal human boundaries of self-preservation. And that was both the legend and the tragedy of Ali. He regained the heavyweight title (on two separate occasions), and became, at one time, the most recognized person on the planet. Then, years after his retirement, came the progressive trembling and slurring of speech, Parkinson's syndrome caused, most likely, by the numerous blows to the head in this second half of his career. Once the most famous human being alive, he is now, by and large, a recluse.

Back to topic: some of the questions I ask myself in assessing greatness (for any sport, really) are:

-is (s)he a winner? (I will write "she" from now on, as the parentheses are tiresome). What was her winning percentage?
-how many times/how long did she win?
-did she win at the most important events?
-did she display the ability to win under pressure?
-did she win aganst the stiffest competition (relative to historical norms)?
-did she dominate her competition? (Clearly, the ideal is to be dominant against the stiffest competition)
-how good were her best performances? How bad were her worst performances?
-did she set records that lasted?
-did she accomplish feats that were seen for the first time, or whose quality was unmatched (at least for a while)?
-did she break through barriers that broadened the outlook of the sport in some significant aspect?

IMO, the names on the OP's list are a good start. I would definitely add Davis and White. Patrick should get there; a strong Olympic credential at Sochi should seal the deal.

OTOH, I don't think either Hanyu or Lipnitskaia are good candidates yet. They are at the beginning of their careers. They are great talents, they show great potential, but their actual accomplishments are not yet in the category of "great".
 

thinspread

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 8, 2013
^^ A great post on Ali, Robeye. :yes: BTW, congrats on your hometown team's clinching win at Fenway Park. :biggrin:
 
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