Skaters who'll be remembered with time as among the greats

Fortunately, there have been a few international youngsters who have named YuNa as a major influence and inspiration as well, so it's nice to see that she is making a sporting difference abroad.

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this.

i think it's interesting that when you asked some commentators you can see the admiration and respect.. and at the same time how these young skaters of today are saying that they are inspired of yuna's skating.. and they're not from korea alone..

I like this 'Inspiration Without Borders' IOC vid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhP3NwkefBM
Yuna at first & 0:57.

skateluvr said:

Not to single any uber out-understandable to worship Kim-she is IT in Korea. I like her and her philanthropy. I can say her 2013 performance was a little moving for choice of music. No real connection with audience has been a complaint. As I said, wait a while for great adjectives. Some huge saints wait 400 years. Some great popes wait longer.

I suspect she will be recalled as a great cop era skater known for speed, huge jumps, great record. As I said great to you isn't great to another. Her flaws are typical of CoP jumpers-no great spiral sequence, posture, stroking, spins just meh. The things that made Lynn or Kwan or Sasha so mesmerizing are no longer valued.

Criticism or dull board if we only cheerlead. I find her 2013 worlds hervery best skate thus far,I rewatch it more than 2010. Like Chan, I wonder at the monster scores, but she stands up at least. Key thing is to see her speed in person I'm told. When she's blazing thru jumps-it has to be a thrill. Taste varies-don't attack differing opinions-poor form.

People who have moved me many times, Kwan, Cohen, Petkevich, Wylie, Curry, Boitano, Kurt, G&G, many ice dancers. I think purity of skating was more showcased in 6.0

Joannie's skate was heroic. Galindo 1996 so moving. I think it's a gap of which system one preferred.

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Nobody attacks different opinions. I am sure everyone on this forum knows how you think of YuNa. I think it is enough. Is it really necessary to visit every YuNa thread and keep repeating your subjective view as if it were an objective opinion?

...ooops! double posting!

Peach said:

I actually like the current COP system compared to the old judging system. It makes figure skating more like a sport. I love that figure skating is a fusion of both art and sport, but I believe that as an olympic "sport" it should be based more on athleticism. I mean if people really wanted to see more art and flexibility, go watch a ballet performance. I'm glad that the system changed because at least now more people will take FS seriously OTHER than FS fans.

As for the greats, I think Yuna will end up being one because of three different reasons. 1) She's the only Korean skater that has managed to win all 4 major ISU events: GPF, 4CC, Worlds, Olympics (or ANY major international comp. for that matter). 2)She was the first skater to hit 200-level point mark and to never ever place off podium in her entire career, including Juniors. 3) I've never seen any female skater that uses so much speed. She is fast and her ice coverage is huge and she is incredibly consistent. I agree that she doesn't move a lot of people. She doesn't really move me either... but that's probably due to her reserved personality. However, everyone must agree that she is a force to be reckoned with. Anyone that denies that is a blatant hater.

I think that Mao will end up being one of the greats as well because of her triple axels and her overall quality as a skater. Her "rivarly" between her and Yuna really stirred up some excitement in the skating world. She's a beautiful skater and I enjoy watching her performances. HOWEVER, I think that as a great, not only you should have good skating qualities, but a good CAREER. She has yet to win an olympic gold medal and her career is not incredibly impressive. Unlike Yuna, she placed off podium many times and she only won 2 world championships. If she doesn't win the OGM in Sochi, I don't think a lot of people will remember as a great ON her own (other than her fans of course). She will be remebered for the rivarly, not for her career. I really hope she does well at the next olympics though.

Lastly, for those of you that are saying that Carolina will be one of the greats if she wins a medal at Sochi... well possibly if she wins the olympics. If not, I doubt it.

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That's discrediting Asada a little too much. She now has a Grand Prix Grand Slam (the first ever), she's the first Asian lady to win multiple world championships, a Guinness World Record for her Triple Axels. Yes she only has two World medals, but apart from Kim's gold- they have more or less the same amount of medals. I would definitely credit that as a GREAT career. Asada has never finished lower than top 10 in the World. If she doesn't win the OGM at Sochi, people surely will still remember her. Not only that, she has a MASSIVE following around the world. If that isn't a great career, I don't know what is. I respect your opinion, but I find it a little too obtuse.

cosmos said:

Nobody attacks different opinions. I am sure everyone on this forum knows how you think of YuNa. I think it is enough. Is it really necessary to visit every YuNa thread and keep repeating your subjective view as if it were an objective opinion?

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Skateluvr must be into a love-hate thing with Kim. Otherwise, I can't fathom why (presumably a) she is visiting every Kim-related thread to reiterate subjective/assumptive comments on Kim's personality and skating, even leaving an unsubstantiated, suitable-for-a-diary comment on psychological ramification of a big Y. All the while insisting how she's turned off by Kim's stoic carriage.

I'll take this moment to go further to say, to fancy about one's character is permissible in most cases, but to make factual statements in an open forum about a recognizable person, while insinuating that the person is faking something like an injury (i.e. telling a lie) to avoid a public engagement, pertains to elements of facts, thus could constitute a case of defamation, not only in civil tort but also under criminal codes in most civilized societies, Eastern or Western, which Skateluvr self-proclaimed to belong to.

hurrah said:

I really doubt that Yuna and Mao are that famous outside of their country besides the skating community.

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Isn't that a given? I bet if you shouted, Katerina Witt at a party maybe a few might know she is a CELEBRITY but probably less than a few would know she is a figure skater and as the years go by even less than that. Time goes by and people get lost to memory. As of now the skaters you can see in HD on Youtube are going to bury a lot of these past skaters to fading memory but for of course those of us with an interest in figure skating. So maybe an adjunct to the question of this thread is, who will Youtube be most kind to as the years go by?
So now you are also dealing with who is the most photogenic; who lights up the camera? Yu Na wins again!

TheCzar said:

That's discrediting Asada a little too much. She now has a Grand Prix Grand Slam (the first ever), she's the first Asian lady to win multiple world championships, a Guinness World Record for her Triple Axels. Yes she only has two World medals, but apart from Kim's gold- they have more or less the same amount of medals. I would definitely credit that as a GREAT career. Asada has never finished lower than top 10 in the World. If she doesn't win the OGM at Sochi, people surely will still remember her. Not only that, she has a MASSIVE following around the world. If that isn't a great career, I don't know what is. I respect your opinion, but I find it a little too obtuse.

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Thankfully Mao has the medals and the acomplishments to prove her greatness.

Youtube videos tell a story of who are the current female superstars of figure skating. After kim yuna and mao compete the views in their videos are 3 times higher than their competitors. Check videos for skate america Mao's views are 3times higher than Ashley.

I am not saying the other girls are not famous, but kim yuna and mao asada are the leading ladies of their generation. I will also include caro kostner as a leading lady.

And the endorsments, both of them could retire from their income from endorments.

If you go by youtube video views, I am sorry to tell you that the greatest figure skaters of this age are, in the following order.
The popularity of these videos may tell you what sells to the general public in figure skating. I am not making any claims for or against any of the skaters shown, but I think this does tell you what the general public will actually watch:

Terminal Cuteness & a good song
Starr Andrews (now at 14,319,042 page views) skating to Willow Smith's Whip My Hair
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBxpjtcBAG8

Embarrassing accidents
Ekaterina Rubleva (with Ivan Shefer) skating the Finnstep at 1,877,088 page views)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rwAgMg09v8

YuNa Kim's 2007 Worlds SP (her highest view count youtube) is close to Rubleva, though, with 1,874,959 page views, and is the only typical competitive program in the list-she has a number of other programs with over a million page views, too. A link to a list, sorted by page view, follows. However, she still is not a patch on Starr Andrews.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_sort=video_view_count&search_query=yu+na+kim

Mao Asada 2009 Worlds Gala is her highest with 1,403,889
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56_Zs10qQhQ
She has a number of other videos in the 500,000 to 1,000,000 level page views
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_sort=video_view_count&search_query=mao+asada

Evgeni Plushenko, a pastice/montage of him doing various stuff and of Edvin Marton playing the violin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWZtD7IUNr4

Evgeni Plushenko's Sex Bomb Gala (960,393 views) from Worlds (2006?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1T61vX4wm4

Unique choreography
Davis & White Indian OD 2010 at US Nationals gala (largest view count for them at 548,303)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56_Zs10qQhQ

A team skatinga comedy routine to ballet & hiphop as a ballerina & a hockey player (perhaps the inspiration for Battle of the Blades)
Virtue & Moir at a 2010 Canadian Championships gala is their highest at 306,461
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXXVXxfKbLQ

No pairs make it over 300,000 or so (Shen & Zhao, and I'm cheating by including them)

Going to older days, Torvill & Dean's 1984 Olympics Bolero FD is the king performance with 2,287,280 page views, more than any competitive skater of today. They also have a lot of programs over 1,000,000 views.

By contract, Klimova & Ponomarenko don't manage more than 100,000 views for any video

Grishuk and Platov have a couple in the 100,000 to 200,000 region

So if we go by page views, both V&M and D&W are the tops, after T&D in dance

Nobody cares about pairs, other than about Ekaterina Gordeeva (her biggest page view is skating with Ilia Kulik about 239,000 views , not Sergei Grinkov) in the 100,000 to 200,000 view region

Brian Boitano's most viewed videos are as a cartoon skater in the South Park movie and next for his cooking show.

Evan Lysacek's biggest hits are news reports of him beating Plushenko at Olympics
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=evan+lysacek&search_sort=video_view_count

You have to go do the list quite a way to see a vid of his actual skating a whole program

Patrick Chan's best skating performance nets under 100K views.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2zbbN4OL98

No female skater has won more than 2 WC post-Kwan, so I think winning two world championships is a pretty impressive thing. Besides that, Mao has won all of other major international skating competitions (GPF, 4CC) more than once in her career. The only big title she lacks is the OGM. Her career hasn't been the most consistent but it is still pretty impressive. Her titles and accomplishments are only second to Kim in this era.

dorispulaski said:

If you go by youtube video views, I am sorry to tell you that the greatest figure skaters of this age are, in the following order.
The popularity of these videos may tell you what sells to the general public in figure skating. I am not making any claims for or against any of the skaters shown, but I think this does tell you what the general public will actually watch:

Terminal Cuteness & a good song
Starr Andrews (now at 14,319,042 page views) skating to Willow Smith's Whip My Hair
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBxpjtcBAG8

Embarrassing accidents
Ekaterina Rubleva (with Ivan Shefer) skating the Finnstep at 1,877,088 page views)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rwAgMg09v8

YuNa Kim's 2007 Worlds SP (her highest view count youtube) is close to Rubleva, though, with 1,874,959 page views, and is the only typical competitive program in the list-she has a number of other programs with over a million page views, too. A link to a list, sorted by page view, follows. However, she still is not a patch on Starr Andrews.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_sort=video_view_count&search_query=yu+na+kim

Mao Asada 2009 Worlds Gala is her highest with 1,403,889
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56_Zs10qQhQ
She has a number of other videos in the 500,000 to 1,000,000 level page views
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_sort=video_view_count&search_query=mao+asada

Evgeni Plushenko, a pastice/montage of him doing various stuff and of Edvin Marton playing the violin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWZtD7IUNr4

Evgeni Plushenko's Sex Bomb Gala (960,393 views) from Worlds (2006?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1T61vX4wm4

Unique choreography
Davis & White Indian OD 2010 at US Nationals gala (largest view count for them at 548,303)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56_Zs10qQhQ

A team skatinga comedy routine to ballet & hiphop as a ballerina & a hockey player (perhaps the inspiration for Battle of the Blades)
Virtue & Moir at a 2010 Canadian Championships gala is their highest at 306,461
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXXVXxfKbLQ

No pairs make it over 300,000 or so (Shen & Zhao, and I'm cheating by including them)

Going to older days, Torvill & Dean's 1984 Olympics Bolero FD is the king performance with 2,287,280 page views, more than any competitive skater of today. They also have a lot of programs over 1,000,000 views.

By contract, Klimova & Ponomarenko don't manage more than 100,000 views for any video

Grishuk and Platov have a couple in the 100,000 to 200,000 region

So if we go by page views, both V&M and D&W are the tops, after T&D in dance

Nobody cares about pairs, other than about Ekaterina Gordeeva (her biggest page view is skating with Ilia Kulik about 239,000 views , not Sergei Grinkov) in the 100,000 to 200,000 view region

Brian Boitano's most viewed videos are as a cartoon skater in the South Park movie and next for his cooking show.

Evan Lysacek's biggest hits are news reports of him beating Plushenko at Olympics
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=evan+lysacek&search_sort=video_view_count

You have to go do the list quite a way to see a vid of his actual skating a whole program

Patrick Chan's best skating performance nets under 100K views.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2zbbN4OL98

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True and Interesting. My point is in a sport who is loosing popularity those two are the popular ones. The day of Skate America Sp Mao's videos had over 20tousand views, when you compared that with the other girls who participated in the event it tells you something. Similary, during 2013 WC Kim Yuna's practice clips had more views than some of the competition clips of other girls.

Two things: Figure skating is loosing popularity, but they are a few skaters who are recognizable and Mao and Kim Yuna are on the top of that list.

Is this a discussion about who is popular now or who is going to be considered great in 50, 60, 70 years' time? Because if it's the former, Yuna is, I believe, the most personally financially successful skater there is. Mao is also very, very successful but I think she shares her endorsement money with different interest groups. In terms of popularity, Mao is one of the most popular celebrities in Japan, and I am sure Yuna is one of the most popular celebrities in Korea. I would wager to bet that Gracie Gold is probably more popular than Yuna or Mao in the United States, and Carolina Kostner is more popular in Italy than Yuna or Mao.

In terms of who gets mentioned half a century to a century after they've competed in the annals of figure skating history, I think it's people like David Jenkins or Janet Lynn who did something far ahead of their time or who really changed the face of figure skating that make it.

I am not sure that either Yuna or Mao have done anything that singularly incredible (as figure skaters, that is) to be so renowned (like David Jenkins or Janet Lynn). However, I am hopeful that Mao will successfully do a 8-triple FP and win OGM, and if it turns out that no female skater does a triple-axel for a decade or so after she leaves, the significance of her feat will come to be more highly regarded than it is now.

ETA: And if it turns out that no skater appears that can match Patrick Chan's skating skills for a decade or so after he retires, Patrick will, I believe, be remembered in figure skating history.

hurrah said:

Is this a discussion about who is popular now or who is going to be considered great in 50, 60, 70 years' time? Because if it's the former, Yuna is, I believe, the most personally financially successful skater there is. Mao is also very, very successful but I think she shares her endorsement money with different interest groups. In terms of popularity, Mao is one of the most popular celebrities in Japan, and I am sure Yuna is one of the most popular celebrities in Korea. I would wager to bet that Gracie Gold is probably more popular than Yuna or Mao in the United States, and Carolina Kostner is more popular in Italy than Yuna or Mao.

In terms of who gets mentioned half a century to a century after they've competed in the annals of figure skating history, I think it's people like David Jenkins or Janet Lynn who did something far ahead of their time or who really changed the face of figure skating that make it.

I am not sure that either Yuna or Mao have done anything that singularly incredible (as figure skaters, that is) to be so renowned (like David Jenkins or Janet Lynn). However, I am hopeful that Mao will successfully do a 8-triple FP and win OGM, and if it turns out that no female skater does a triple-axel for a decade or so after she leaves, the significance of her feat will come to be more highly regarded than it is now.

ETA: And if it turns out that no skater appears that can match Patrick Chan's skating skills for a decade or so after he retires, Patrick will, I believe, be remembered in figure skating history.

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Janet who? Seriously, Janet has an interesting story but hers is mostly a story of defeat. Kim also has a fascinating story so much so they could make an interesting HOLLYWOOD movie about it. But here's the difference; she wins and usually in dominating style and yes, she has brought something to the sport that is influential now and the foreseeable future. To put it into the proper context, if Kim were American she would most definitely be trumpeted as the greatest skater ever and she would say, thank you, Janet Lynn and the American public would say, Janet who?

hurrah said:

Is this a discussion about who is popular now or who is going to be considered great in 50, 60, 70 years' time? Because if it's the former, Yuna is, I believe, the most personally financially successful skater there is. Mao is also very, very successful but I think she shares her endorsement money with different interest groups. In terms of popularity, Mao is one of the most popular celebrities in Japan, and I am sure Yuna is one of the most popular celebrities in Korea. I would wager to bet that Gracie Gold is probably more popular than Yuna or Mao in the United States, and Carolina Kostner is more popular in Italy than Yuna or Mao.

In terms of who gets mentioned half a century to a century after they've competed in the annals of figure skating history, I think it's people like David Jenkins or Janet Lynn who did something far ahead of their time or who really changed the face of figure skating that make it.

I am not sure that either Yuna or Mao have done anything that singularly incredible (as figure skaters, that is) to be so renowned (like David Jenkins or Janet Lynn). However, I am hopeful that Mao will successfully do a 8-triple FP and win OGM, and if it turns out that no female skater does a triple-axel for a decade or so after she leaves, the significance of her feat will come to be more highly regarded than it is now.

ETA: And if it turns out that no skater appears that can match Patrick Chan's skating skills for a decade or so after he retires, Patrick will, I believe, be remembered in figure skating history.

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Interest Groups? So her federation gets a portion of her money. No wonder there were articles about her federation pressuring her not to quit after Sochi. If she retires , they will loose a lot of money on tickets sales and sponsors. Although they have good juniors coming up, so far I don't see any of them recreating Mao's magic, because Mao was their darling at the age of 15

TheCzar said:

That's discrediting Asada a little too much. She now has a Grand Prix Grand Slam (the first ever), she's the first Asian lady to win multiple world championships, a Guinness World Record for her Triple Axels. Yes she only has two World medals, but apart from Kim's gold- they have more or less the same amount of medals. I would definitely credit that as a GREAT career. Asada has never finished lower than top 10 in the World. If she doesn't win the OGM at Sochi, people surely will still remember her. Not only that, she has a MASSIVE following around the world. If that isn't a great career, I don't know what is. I respect your opinion, but I find it a little too obtuse.

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I too respect your opinion and agree that Asada have a great career and is one of the leading ladies for this sport in Japan. However, I do wonder if she skate for Korea and Yuna skate for Japan, how their fortune might have been reversed entirely? By that I mean, federation, training support, rules and point value changes, sponsorship, commercial interests. There's no doubt in my mind, one of would have had FAR MORE SUCCESS; the other - I honestly can't say, especially given the triple axle as impressive as it is, has also PROVEN to be unreliable and prone to UR.

As for the Grand Prix Slam, i don't how this record can be considered as impressive when Yuna Kim has never been invited to participate in NHK Trophy. Yuna has already won the Grand Prix Final 3 out of the 4 years she participated, the other time she came 2nd. Mao failed to qualify 2 out of 9 years she participated, 1 times due to withdraw for entirely understandably reason. She had 5 more years to accomplish this. Had she accomplished in her 5th year I'd be far more impressed than the 5 years extra it took her, which is almost by default since she and Carolina has the longest career today. So this claim should always followed by a MASSIVE astrix since her main rival and arguably the leader of the sport was left out of Mao's home event completely, and that even had Yuna continued to take part in Grand Prix, she would have never able to accomplish this. I can't imagine this happen in any sport, the unfairness seems utterly ridiculous.

I'd be genuinely curious how MASSIVE the following the two skaters are around the world. Take attendance figures of the competition they entered for instances. Or how about looking at opinion poll from the next generation of skaters? I do recollect many like Gracie, ZiJun, Julia, Liza seems to went on the record for their admiration for Yuna, some even copied her costumes, and certainly their approach to skating seems to have emulate Yuna far more than attempting a 3A or being balletic and skate to soft classical music.

I wish there are more reliable indicators than youtube views given:
- Most people in non English speaking worlds like China, Korea and probably Japan don't use youtube, they have localised version of these vids services. What does the viewing stats tell?
- Yuna's youtube vids with millions of hits always get mysterious deleted by copyright infringement. How come?

Keywords on Google.com, search for Yuna Kim and Mao Asada. What are the search results? 6:1, it isn't even close.

How about who had the most and the biggest headline among the international press, past present and the future? Why not get a general consensus among the world media/ punters on the leading story and figure in this sport? NBC/BBC/CNN/CBC/Ruteurs/CNE/Eurosport/ESPN, Olympics.org to name a few

Who's scores in their entire career history are able to stand up to the greatest scrutiny, and what reasons for them? Who has been most overscored, who underscored, and how that affect the rankings.

The talks about legacy, who's to carry on the torch from Mao. While there are more possibility of someone available to head up the ladies in Japan, arguably that is because of the federation national support and infrastructures are there, rather than credit to that one skater. Other wise, Kanako, and other Japanese juniors would have followed the 3A training already, as difficult as it might. Or that China would have already had multiple artistic skaters already leading the race due to LuChen, who like Midori Ito are both one Gold World Champion medalist.

Had any of the above questions stand up to scrutiny, I'd be far more impressed.

Janet Lynn changed a system. And inspired future greatness in the form of Michelle Kwan, who in turn inspired Yuna Kim.

RABID said:

Janet who? Seriously, Janet has an interesting story but hers is mostly a story of defeat. Kim also has a fascinating story so much so they could make an interesting HOLLYWOOD movie about it. But here's the difference; she wins and usually in dominating style and yes, she has brought something to the sport that is influential now and the foreseeable future. To put it into the proper context, if Kim were American she would most definitely be trumpeted as the greatest skater ever and she would say, thank you, Janet Lynn and the American public would say, Janet who?

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Is it necessary to put another skater story and success down to prove something that most people on this forum will agree with: Kim Yuna will be remembered as one of the greats, her influence in figure skating will be talked about from generations to come and She =figure skating in South Korea

But we already established that World Wide, it is not generally competitive programs that engage the general public.

I asked my husband this question, since he is a captive skating fan, and more like a member of the general public, who he thinks are legendary skaters (I didn't specify a time frame).

His answer was Toller Cranston (who never won higher than a bronze at Worlds or Olympics) and Torvill & Dean. Those are the ones he remembers as legendary.

Toller only manages about 20K page views on his vids, pretty good for a guy from 1972-1976 (but longer in pros)

I could have swear the title of this thread is who will be considered among the greats? If we go by the standards of some poster HERE Michelle Knwan will not be considered great because she does not have an Olympic medal.