Free Dance: 2013 NHK Trophy

gmyers · Nov 10, 2013

museksk8r said:
YES, YES, YES, A MILLION TIMES YES! I am totally in agreement with you! These 2 have way too much talent and potential to possibly fade out and I LOVE your idea of having them join Anjelika Krylova's team. She is hands down one of my top 2 favorite female ice dancers in figure skating history along with Marina Klimova. I'd love to see what magic Anjelika could create with Elena and Nikita!

But what if krylova expected them to train and practice a lot?

ice coverage · Nov 10, 2013

Mrs. P said:
It has been documented that Elena is dating ...

Thanks for providing the bkgd on Ilinykh/Katsalapov, Mrs. P. You're TMZ + Nate Silver all rolled into one.

(You know that I am your biggest fan, so the TMZ reference is intended as a compliment in this case :laugh:

... although I admit that I never dreamed that I ever would cite TMZ in such a favorable context. :eek:

:think

TontoK said:
Exactly. I, too, prefer D/W, but I can't knock V/M.

Sometimes I get the sense that "Dance Wars" will erupt any minute, and we won't be able to have an intelligent conversation without it degenerating into something silly like the Yuna/Mao bash threads.

I do my best not to get sucked into GS wars of any kind. As I said above, I believe that the skaters themselves -- while grateful for other kinds of support -- would seriously disapprove of such wars.
That said, it can be very tiresome and frustrating to keep turning one's cheek when overzealous Davis/White fans aggressively present their individual opinions as if they were universal truths.
Really appreciate those D/W fans who have no interest in bashing Virtue/Moir. :bow:

blackswanphoto · Nov 10, 2013

museksk8r said:
YES, YES, YES, A MILLION TIMES YES! I am totally in agreement with you! These 2 have way too much talent and potential to possibly fade out and I LOVE your idea of having them join Anjelika Krylova's team. She is hands down one of my top 2 favorite female ice dancers in figure skating history along with Marina Klimova. I'd love to see what magic Anjelika could create with Elena and Nikita!

Krylova probably dont want them. They might have tried already. I doubt she would want Elena anywhere near Pasquale Camerlengo.

Mathman · Nov 10, 2013

Mrs. P said:
(Though it was nice seeing Mirai on TV, honestly)

Mirai looked like a million dollars! :rock:

She made too many mistakes skating, but she looked happy, fit, and wonderful.

ice coverage · Nov 10, 2013

Mrs. P said:
Still don't get why NBC didn't show the Shibutanis' bronze medal performance (either time), but showed Mirai's 8th place finish?! (Though it was nice seeing Mirai on TV, honestly)

Mathman said:
Mirai looked like a million dollars! She made too many mistakes skating, but she looked happy, fit, and wonderful.

:agree: Yes, it was a very pleasant surprise to see Nagasu on NBC. She is a lovely young woman, and her smile is so sweet.

(I did feel a little pang that NBC did not include Max, who placed seventh. OTOH, I think(?)/hope that NBC showed Max at Skate America, although I missed all of that coverage.
So if NBC had given a turn in its NHK coverage to the Shibutanis instead, it would have been understandable. But alas, NBC did not give us a chance to see the loveliness and smiles of any of these three today.)

Mrs. P · Nov 11, 2013

golden411 said:
Thanks for providing the bkgd on Ilinykh/Katsalapov, Mrs. P. You're TMZ + Nate Silver all rolled into one.
(You know that I am your biggest fan, so the TMZ reference is intended as a compliment in this case ... although I admit that I never dreamed that I ever would cite TMZ in such a favorable context. :think:

I do my best not to get sucked into GS wars of any kind. As I said above, I believe that the skaters themselves -- while grateful for other kinds of support -- would seriously disapprove of such wars.
That said, it can be very tiresome and frustrating to keep turning one's cheek when overzealous Davis/White fans aggressively present their individual opinions as if they were universal truths.
Really appreciate those D/W fans who have no interest in bashing Virtue/Moir.

Aw, thanks golden. Maybe you can think of me as Entertainment Weekly instead? This little story shows my nerdiness: When I subscribed to EW as a teenager, I loved the articles and getting the latest in entertainment news/trends and seeing photos of my favorite actors/musicians/etc. But the section I really devoured was the back pages, which show various music charts (such as Billboard Top 100 and television ratings). My love for data and tracking trends even back then! :biggrin:

As for fan wars, I believe that a skater's performance should speak for itself. If they are as good as you say they are, no need to tear down the other team. As SkateFiguring pointed out in a different thread, I feel that sometimes the fans are trying to politck excessively for/against skaters on this board (and online as well). I never see the benefit of doing that, but alas it is done.

golden411 said:
Yes, it was a very pleasant surprise to see Nagasu on NBC. She is a lovely young woman, and her smile is so sweet.

(I did feel a little pang that NBC did not include Max, who placed seventh. OTOH, I think(?)/hope that NBC showed Max at Skate America, although I missed all of that coverage.
So if NBC had given a turn in its NHK coverage to the Shibutanis instead, it would have been understandable. But alas, NBC did not give us a chance to see the loveliness and smiles of any of these three today.)

Yes, they did show Max in the Skate America NBC coverage.

And I agree it was nice to see Mirai's smile in the middle of the Bond program, so again, not directing my

at her.

But the Shibutanis, aside from Davis and White, are the only other team (as of now, hoping Ashley Wagner will earn a medal at TEB) to earn medals at both their events. And from a broader point-of-view, they have a much more solid senior record, even with their struggles, than most of the men, ladies or pairs in this Olympic quad: They have meadled at every GP but one (COR 2012; so seven out of eight GP events), had a top 3 finish at every senior Nationals they've participated in and top 10 finishes in three Worlds apperances, contributing to the U.S. having three spots the following year (yes, Chock and Bates finished above them last year, but the U.S. would still had enough for three spots factoring D/W and the Shibs' finish).

So it baffles me that they can't even get a brief mention on NBC's GP coverage.

Matt K · Nov 11, 2013

TontoK said:
Sometimes I get the sense that "Dance Wars" will erupt any minute, and we won't be able to have an intelligent conversation without it degenerating into something silly like the Yuna/Mao bash threads.

The main ones denigrating any semblance of intelligent conversation are the Davis and White ubers, who are quite prominent on GoldenSkate. Shame , really.

Matt K · Nov 11, 2013

blackswanphoto said:
Please tell me this "luminary" isn't Marina Anissina ? My god, if you are referring to Marina Anissina as a "luminary"

Anjelika Krylova, Zhulin, Navka, and several others etc. all have spoken about their preference for V/M to D/W within the last 2 years, so you're wrong about that. Of the current dancers, Cappellini/Lanotte, Elena Ilinykh, Weaver/Poje, Ksenia Monko and several others have also spoken about their preference for V/M who they say are in a different league so your comment about the 6.0 dinosaurs is completely false, too.

Whitneyskates · Nov 11, 2013

Anjelika Krylova

I remember she said they were her current favorite team. V/M fans took it as a compliment (which don't get me wrong, it definitely is coming from Anjelika Krylova) but I couldn't help but think what kind of uproar would come from V/M or D/W fans if Marina came out said another team were her favorite. :laugh:

bramweld · Nov 11, 2013

With all due respect Carmelengo is not Morozov and Elena is not a siren..lol. And I don't think they're lazy that's the kool aid Zhulin wants to sell, but they're not workaholics, they get tired and the say so. Zhulin prefers that a team not object to his demands and do what he says regardless, hence Dima's injuries but maybe also their success. Elena and Nikita are just not psychologically at that place. What do you do? Do you work with them skillfully or do you throw them to the wolves, judge for yourselves which approach Zhulin took. He thought by doing this he would shame them into compliance with his wishes and it didn't work, so for three years he has been maligning them in the press. Not very classy at all IMHO.

museksk8r · Nov 11, 2013

bramweld said:
With all due respect Carmelengo is not Morozov and Elena is not a siren..lol. And I don't think they're lazy that's the kool aid Zhulin wants to sell, but they're not workaholics, they get tired and the say so. Zhulin prefers that a team not object to his demands and do what he says regardless, hence Dima's injuries but maybe also their success. Elena and Nikita are just not psychologically at that place. What do you do? Do you work with them skillfully or do you throw them to the wolves, judge for yourselves which approach Zhulin took. He thought by doing this he would shame them into compliance with his wishes and it didn't work, so for three years he has been maligning them in the press. Not very classy at all IMHO.

Agreed, but then again, we're talking about a man who cheated on his wife and had a lengthy affair with a very close competitor of theirs. He has never been very classy.

blackswanphoto · Nov 11, 2013

Matt K said:
Anjelika Krylova, Zhulin, Navka, and several others etc. all have spoken about their preference for V/M to D/W within the last 2 years, so you're wrong about that. Of the current dancers, Cappellini/Lanotte, Elena Ilinykh, Weaver/Poje, Ksenia Monko and several others have also spoken about their preference for V/M who they say are in a different league so your comment about the 6.0 dinosaurs is completely false, too.

Exactly who I thought it would be.. mostly Russians. Of course they would say that, the Russians dominated in the old system where you had to do almost nothing technical to win in Ice Dance. You notice the Russians are not winning jack in this new system. They are used to the back-room deals and pre-arranged results. So I would not take stock in a bunch of bitter Russians saying they prefer V/M, of course they would. Weaver/Poje is Canadian, dont know why you even mentioned them and definitely not a luminary. They have done nothing in the sport.

Anjelika Krylova is just bitter and sour because the technically superior team of Gritchuk and Platov would always beat her to a pulp, despite her superior body line. She could not keep up with them. Even her own federation never thought she was good enough to wheel-and-deal a single victory over Gritchuk/Platov. Four straight years of beatings was eventually going to take it's toll on her. Of course Davis/White would rub her the wrong way seeing they are winning for the same reasons. I am sure it brings up all the memories of her just not being quite good enough to get even one win from Gritchuk/Platov. Maybe if she focused more on her students, instead of worrying about which of the other teams is better, she would have a team good enough to beat Davis and White.

Cappellini/Lanotte, Elena Ilinykh, Ksenia Monko..... Really?.... I mean really this is grasping for straws at best? Did you just mention these names?... Really?
Ksenia Monko??... :rofl:

Mrs. P · Nov 11, 2013

Stating preference isn't the same thing as saying who is the best in Ice Dance.

I'm not surprised, for one, that those Russian Ice Dancers mention above prefer Virtue and Moir. After all, V/M, by nature, have many of the qualities valued in Russian Ice Dance - fluidity, extension and matching line.

The powerful and athletic style of Davis and White is a departure in what thrived in Ice Dance previously, so certainly there is a bit of discomfort from the establishment, which again is understandable.

But many of those same folks, begrundgly in some cases, have acknowledged Davis and White's technical ability and consider D/W and V/M basically above everyone else, even their own teams.

In the end, the preference of past champions don't really matter when it comes time for competition.

Matt K said:
The main ones denigrating any semblance of intelligent conversation are the Davis and White ubers, who are quite prominent on GoldenSkate. Shame , really.

Is it really necessary to pick on and generalize and entire fan group? There's are only a handful of people on this thread (i.e. I can count it one hand) who have stirred the pot a little, but hardly should be representative of an entire group of fans. There are plenty of D/W fans that respect V/M and acknowledge their abilities.

In fact, you seem to ignore the several posters who have stated their respects for V/M on this thread alone:

I think BOTH teams will be remembered, very well and quite fondly. They are two pieces of a set. Just look at this thread and and the SC thread. Both teams are a major topic of discussion, even in competitions at which they don't appear.

We're in a golden age of ice dance. Two teams have pushed the envelope technically and artistically. They've traded world titles for the past 4 years.

Nearly all of us have our favorite, but reasonable people can't dismiss the brilliance of our fav's rivals.

When they retire (and we don't know for sure when that will be), their successors will have a tough time topping what we've seen this quadrennial.

D/W and V/M are in a class above the rest of the ice dancers. That is clear.

I am a D/W fan but I respect V/M for their great talent and achievements and for the fact that if there were no V/M, D/W wouldn't be the great dancers they are today.

bramweld · Nov 11, 2013

Wow this grand prix was much more exciting than CoC, looking forward to Paris!!

Mathman · Nov 11, 2013

I think Davis and White should change their closing pose for this year's free dance. The one where Charlie bends over gasping for breath while Meryl hovers solicitously. I understand what they are trying to portray, Charlie's courage in overcoming a breathing disorder while putting every ounce of effort into his performance, leaving it all on the ice.

Still, next time out I think they should try a more, haha, bring-it-on, let's-do-it-again vibe.

demarinis5 · Nov 11, 2013

Well said Mrs. P

The bickering back and forth on who is better, blah, blah, blah is tiresome.
That is one of the reasons lately that I drop in after each discipline
is over and congratulate the winners. It does not matter if the winners
are my favorites or not. Constructive criticisms is one thing but darn
sometimes the negativity against the skaters just gets to me.

We are lucky as fans to have so many talented skaters right now.
My motto is to sit back and enjoy.

aftertherain · Nov 11, 2013

Matt K said:
The main ones denigrating any semblance of intelligent conversation are the Davis and White ubers, who are quite prominent on GoldenSkate. Shame , really.

I can see up your nose, snooty one.

Well, you know it's the Olympic season when you're putting people on your ignore list at a record speed. I didn't have anyone on my ignore list six months ago. Geez. Now I've got all kinds of ubers up in there.

I've only gotten a chance to see the top four's FDs and I like all of them. I think the B. ESP commentary team were right about the Shibs and I/K. While the crowd at NHK were immensely supportive, Shibs still need to amp up the energy on the MJ program. It was a bit slower than I'd expected at some points--but perhaps that is due to the required elements that don't exactly match the pace of the music.

I/K were so beautiful. Great chemistry between the two of them. I loved the lifts--but there was something that they lacked for me. Like the B ESP commentators, I didn't really like the long-drawn out "performance" right before their music started. Don't get me wrong, I like the preparation that skaters do to get into their opening poses, but I/K's was just too over-the-top for me. Other than that, it's a shame they didn't hit all their levels.

Everyone has pretty much said what I feel about D/W. I think the crowd at NHK was the crowd that they deserve at every single one of their competitions.

Mrs. P · Nov 11, 2013

aftertherain said:
I can see up your nose, snooty one.

Well, you know it's the Olympic season when you're putting people on your ignore list at a record speed. I didn't have anyone on my ignore list six months ago. Geez. Now I've got all kinds of ubers up in there.

I've only gotten a chance to see the top four's FDs and I like all of them. I think the B. ESP commentary team were right about the Shibs and I/K. While the crowd at NHK were immensely supportive, Shibs still need to amp up the energy on the MJ program. It was a bit slower than I'd expected at some points--but perhaps that is due to the required elements that don't exactly match the pace of the music.

I/K were so beautiful. Great chemistry between the two of them. I loved the lifts--but there was something that they lacked for me. Like the B ESP commentators, I didn't really like the long-drawn out "performance" right before their music started. Don't get me wrong, I like the preparation that skaters do to get into their opening poses, but I/K's was just too over-the-top for me. Other than that, it's a shame they didn't hit all their levels.

Everyone has pretty much said what I feel about D/W. I think the crowd at NHK was the crowd that they deserve at every single one of their competitions.

Even as a ShibSibs uber (I feel like I'm the only one who proudly claims such), I certainly had no probably with the constructive criticism offered by the B. Eurosport commentators. And I don't think the Shibutanis are ignorant to that criticism either. Given that they have been working with choreographers from the MJ "This is It" tour (which was referenced by Nicky in their commentary), they certainly aware what amazing execution of MJ choreography looks like. As I said in the other thread, Michael Jackson choreography is hard enough. Now try to do that with ice skates while meeting the technical standards of COP. I think they will get there with a lot of practice.

The same goes with I/K -- this was their first major competition of the season, so I'd expect cobwebs in their dance as well, even aside from hitting the levels.

Davis and White (and Volozhar and Trankov in pairs) are the exception -- not the rule -- in how prepared and conditioned they look at this point in the season.

Tonichelle · Nov 11, 2013

demarinis5 said:
Well said Mrs. P

The bickering back and forth on who is better, blah, blah, blah is tiresome.
That is one of the reasons lately that I drop in after each discipline
is over and congratulate the winners. It does not matter if the winners
are my favorites or not. Constructive criticisms is one thing but darn
sometimes the negativity against the skaters just gets to me.

We are lucky as fans to have so many talented skaters right now.
My motto is to sit back and enjoy.

you took the thoughts right out of my head.... fan wars are draining, and in many ways incredibly childish.

sweetskates1 · Nov 11, 2013

Agreed!

aftertherain said:
I can see up your nose, snooty one.

Everyone has pretty much said what I feel about D/W. I think the crowd at NHK was the crowd that they deserve at every single one of their competitions.

Free Dance: 2013 NHK Trophy

gmyers

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605

blackswanphoto

Mathman

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

Matt K

Matt K

Whitneyskates

bramweld

museksk8r

blackswanphoto

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

bramweld

Mathman

demarinis5

Gold for the Winter Prince!

aftertherain

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

sweetskates1

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