Are I/K done after falling again? | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Are I/K done after falling again?

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
This is first competition for I/K. Shibutanis season began with Skate America. When they can get their levels they will surpass S/S. Much much higher PCS, higher GOE too. That was easier for S/S. Because they are doing same elements forever. This is Marina's idea I think. Using same position for two different lifts in same program. Virtue/Moir changed of course but you can look at Shibutani's dance. This is easier for getting levels. This is not trying better for Olympic season. :disapp: I respect I/K. Because they are taking risks and doing new elements.

http://youtu.be/w92f3QtBFro?t=4m28s (4.28)
http://youtu.be/w92f3QtBFro?t=2m19s (2.19)

Only question when I/K will get their levels up. :rolleye: This is first time I'm optimistic about their programs. Best ever after the 2010. :)

If it were common for many teams to get 4 level 2s in a SD and then get more level 2's in a fd it might be explained. It only happened to I/k for some reason. Dislike of training? Possible personal dislike of each other? Total incompetence in coaching that they need to leave immediately? This competiton was garbage and they embarrassed themselves.
 

TontoK

Hot Tonto
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Country
United-States
NHK's dance tech panel have two north americas and one japanese....just saying.

I'm no good at looking at levels, can someone break down why they always get level 2s? For one I always thought their Cosp is one of the best in dance but they consistently got level 2 on that element. It is baffling.

This same tech panel hit D/W with a L3 twizzle and L3 Finnstep sequence in the SD.

I assume it's because they didn't actually hit the L4 requirement, and not because of a judging conspiracy.

I think it's fair to say the exact same thing about I/K Levels. They didn't get higher levels because they didn't perform them.

The consensus on the thread is that they need help on achieving the levels... not that they need a different technical panel.
 

SimplyLex

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 22, 2013
Zhulin gave up on I/K because of their work ethic. They went to Morozov because he could give them only limited time, which was fine with them. Zoueva or Shpilband aren't going to put up with laziness from I/K. Either they are going to work or they are going to remain mediocre middle-of the rank skaters. And that would be a shame, because they have the talent and the charisma to become one of the greats.

Yep, as bad as it may sound, I don't think they're working hard enough. After placing 5th in the world, they got a bit too certain they would only move up from there. They are incredibly talented and I think it's doing harm to them, because they think talent is enough. And talent is never enough.

I mean, I would say it was a coach problem, but they had the same kind of issues with a different coach too, so... my money is on not working hard enough.

I hope they get it together, though. They're both incredible and I could see them dominate the world after VM and DW retire if only they worked harder for it. I agree they have amazing charisma, they're very unique.
 

FSGMT

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 10, 2012
Zhulin gave up on I/K because of their work ethic. They went to Morozov because he could give them only limited time, which was fine with them.
Is this your opinion or did you read this somewhere (just curious)?
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
This same tech panel hit D/W with a L3 twizzle and L3 Finnstep sequence in the SD.

I assume it's because they didn't actually hit the L4 requirement, and not because of a judging conspiracy.

I think it's fair to say the exact same thing about I/K Levels. They didn't get higher levels because they didn't perform them.

The consensus on the thread is that they need help on achieving the levels... not that they need a different technical panel.

i think the consensus is they a technical SPECIALIST not someone on the judging/technical analyzing committee. They appear to have some skill beside the pcs but don't know what or how to get the levels and goes. Shipland is better technically but artistically Marina. i don't really think D and W will stay around mind you unless there is a money issue ie more in amateur than retiring. Besides while there are a lot of huge D and W advocates the rest of the world is a bit fickle and if you stay too long you fizzle out or are shown the door. Even Michelle Kwan fizzled as did Maria B, Petrova and tikinov, maybe sadly Kavaguti and smirnov, Pang and Tong are headed in that direction, sarah hughes, kimmie meissner, sure injuries play a factor. Anyways back to i and K this is a team with talent now someone do something. And is soeone starting a rumour or is it truth there is trouble in their relationship? Are they with morosov because she was dating him? Are they lazy? Ah their medicority is still top ten in the world lol:)
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Yep, as bad as it may sound, I don't think they're working hard enough. After placing 5th in the world, they got a bit too certain they would only move up from there. They are incredibly talented and I think it's doing harm to them, because they think talent is enough. And talent is never enough.

I mean, I would say it was a coach problem, but they had the same kind of issues with a different coach too, so... my money is on not working hard enough.

I hope they get it together, though. They're both incredible and I could see them dominate the world after VM and DW retire if only they worked harder for it. I agree they have amazing charisma, they're very unique.

If they both don't like to train then they are failing together but what if one is really interested and the other is dragging them down? So whoever that would be it would be best if they found a new partner right? Zhulin was focused on P/B and said explicitly that he didn't want to work I/K too hard in the early season so they would peak for the worlds in 2011. Then they started to lose to the Shibutani's. Then after I/K left Zhulin said and still says how they hate training. But they wanted results so they left Zhulin and went to Morozov who had a zillion other skaters. And he would be busy a lot with others. So they initially had some good results GPF Euros silver but then had a massive breakdown that is still continuting. But did Morozov being busy with so many other skaters allow for I/K not to train. If there biggest goal is too avoid training as much as possible why are they even continuing in the sport? They looked totally undertrained and like they never did their whole SD or FD before at NHK! I think it would be best if Zhulin and Tarasova and all the powers in Russian skating including Staviski who criticize I/K work ethic really made it their goal to keep I/K out of Sochi. Tarasova got Kovtun to Euros maybe they all working together can keep I/K out of Sochi.
 

TontoK

Hot Tonto
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Country
United-States
i think the consensus is they a technical SPECIALIST not someone on the judging/technical analyzing committee. They appear to have some skill beside the pcs but don't know what or how to get the levels and goes. Shipland is better technically but artistically Marina. i don't really think D and W will stay around mind you unless there is a money issue ie more in amateur than retiring. Besides while there are a lot of huge D and W advocates the rest of the world is a bit fickle and if you stay too long you fizzle out or are shown the door. Even Michelle Kwan fizzled as did Maria B, Petrova and tikinov, maybe sadly Kavaguti and smirnov, Pang and Tong are headed in that direction, sarah hughes, kimmie meissner, sure injuries play a factor. Anyways back to i and K this is a team with talent now someone do something. And is soeone starting a rumour or is it truth there is trouble in their relationship? Are they with morosov because she was dating him? Are they lazy? Ah their medicority is still top ten in the world lol:)

I think you may have misunderstood what I meant to say... which is that the problems were not with the tech panel at NHK, but rather with the skaters themselves, who did not hit the levels.

My post was a reply to another contributor who hinted that with a different, less biased panel, their levels would have been judged other than what they were.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
No one is done forever. Never.

There needs to be radical changes and dramatic overhaul. They can't give an embarrassing level 2 performance again! They might not be done but need new coaches. They can't stay with Morozov who apparently is fine with all their bad habits including not training. I think I/K know they could quit if they aren't interested anymore. Not training but going compete may be something they want to do but I think they want good results and to be successful.
 

Srin Odessa

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 23, 2012
Is this your opinion or did you read this somewhere (just curious)?

http://ontd-skating.livejournal.com/1111824.html

Back in 2011 after worlds, Zhulin made some public remarks about I/K's lack of dedication. At the time, they were still together. People didn't know whether it was true or Zhulin wanted to save face after their placement at World.

After the split, Nikita fired back by saying Zhulin had neglected them and not given them adequate technical support. Zhulin replied to the scandal by saying that the Russian Federation had orchestrated the split.

Some people on Russian forums said that lengthy training blocks were a major factor in their split since they had difficultly adapting to his training style at a senior level.
 

FSGMT

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 10, 2012
http://ontd-skating.livejournal.com/1111824.html

Back in 2011 after worlds, Zhulin made some public remarks about I/K's lack of dedication. At the time, they were still together. People didn't know whether it was true or Zhulin wanted to save face after their placement at World.

After the split, Nikita fired back by saying Zhulin had neglected them and not given them adequate technical support. Zhulin replied to the scandal by saying that the Russian Federation had orchestrated the split.

Some people on Russian forums said that lengthy training blocks were a major factor in their split since they had difficultly adapting to his training style at a senior level.
Thank you for this, I didn't know it... This makes me wonder how good would they be if they worked harder!!
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Thank you for this, I didn't know it... This makes me wonder how good would they be if they worked harder!!

Everytime they interviewed Zhulin, he said I/K are lazy every single time.

Good thing is Morozov only like them young, so their next coaching change is around the corner.
 

mary01

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
never say never. I have to say I was really happy to see the Shibutanis doing so well, but if I/k performance was due to bad preparation then I really don't think there should be anything to worry about!
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
never say never. I have to say I was really happy to see the Shibutanis doing so well, but if I/k performance was due to bad preparation then I really don't think there should be anything to worry about!

I/k can't rely on pcs never going lower to offset how little they train he technical elements which resulted in level 2s. Eventually pcs will fall and reflect things like them losing to the shibutanis again. If they don't start training spins and steps they are doomed no matter who the coach is. It's why the Russian federation needs to suspend them and knock them off the national team until they start practicing again.
 

bramweld

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
Don't drink the kool aid Zhulin is serving, he is a bitter, shrewd old man with many cronies in his pocket. I just have a feeling that we're in for a pleasant surprise with them. My mother always taught me never kick a man when he's down.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Don't drink the kool aid Zhulin is serving, he is a bitter, shrewd old man with many cronies in his pocket. I just have a feeling that we're in for a pleasant surprise with them. My mother always taught me never kick a man when he's down.

I agree. The same could be applied with the Shibutanis as well. So many people have counted them out and they have proven that they aren't giving up.

FWIW, these two teams are the only ones from their "junior class" to show considerable success at the senior level. Paul and Islam is just starting to show international success, but no GP
medal yet. Monko/Khailkan stayed in juniors another year, but is yet to hit their stride in seniors.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Shibutanis kept making really big mistakes like missing the entire twizzles in 2012 worlds for example. I/k have gone into a low level tailspin again and how do they get out of this tailspin. When they left Zhulin and went to morozov it was to get out of low levels. Now they are back there again and what is going on? I read a comment from katsalapov That was just bland and meaningless with no urgency. I wasn't looking for panic just any kind of urgency. I understand why shibutanis wouldn't leave zueva but not why at least Katsalpov wouldn't leave illynkh/ morozov.
 

blue_idealist

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
They definitely shouldn't get new partners. New coach, maybe.. but they aren't washed up since they are still young and can still improve.. if B/S retire after Sochi (which is a slight possibility, I think), they'll become Russian #1..
 
Top