Skaters Facing Pay Cuts

Joesitz said:

Interesting point, Jennifer and I think you have a good point. - You seem to equate popularity with almost any kind of behaviour to get a name into the media. Aghassi's romance with Shields; Retton's perkiness; Rodman's antics. I could add Tonya's whack. They do in deed get the media going and increase the popularity of their various sports. Maybe the PRs of certain figure skaters are not earning their pay.

While I agree, the PR system and how well the media picks up on it play a very big role in the popularity of the sport, I personally am not giving up my joys of watching Tennis, figure Skating and the Mets

Joe

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In what way is Mary Lou Retton's perkiness a bid for media attention? Or Andre Agassi's love life? Is he only allowed to date and marry non-celebrities? I wouldn't lump those two in with Dennis Rodman and Tonya Harding. But for the record, I don't think Tonya orchestrated the knee whack as a means of bringing attention to herself. I mean, think about it. Nancy getting whacked on the knee brings more attention to Nancy, not Tonya. At least, that was how it worked until Tonya and her cohorts got caught.

Back to Mary Lou. She was just a teenage girl (now a grown woman) with a bubbly personality. Nothing wrong with that. People liked her. Picabo Street and Bonnie Blair are two other athletes with similar appeal. The skating world's equivalent was probably Liz Manley. I don't know as much about Picabo Street and Bonnie Blair's lives, but both Mary Lou and Liz have allowed themselves to be shown on TV in a less-than-perky light. I remember some of Mary Lou's practice footage
from 1984 when she was crying because Bela Karolyi made her practice while injured. And a few weeks ago, I saw a profile on CBC where Liz talked about the heavy ups and downs of her career. In both instances, the athletes were sharing something about their lives with the public. They let us see different sides to their careers and their personalities. Another skating world example of this would be Scott Hamilton's battle with cancer. He normally comes off as a funloving, extroverted guy (the male version of perky). He obviously tried to keep his sense of humor while he was undergoing chemotherapy. But sometimes, he just seemed sick.

Anyhow, my point is that celebrity athletes (and celebrities in general) aren't just people who mug for cameras or dye their hair green so someone will look at them. Yes, there are celebrities like this. But this isn't always the case.

As for the skaters' PR machines, I think they're part of the problem not part of the solution. As I stated in an earlier post, Michelle Kwan was PR trained at 14 years old. I don't see anything natural or spontaneous about her. There's nothing to dislike about her, that's true. But there isn't much to like about her, either. She shows up, she skates, she says what she's supposed to say, and she leaves. Nothing wrong with that, but it's not very interesting.

eyria said:

This is an interesting discussion about Michelle's alleged "boringness". I have mixed feelings on this topic.

On the one hand, I admire Michelle tremendously for the way she's conducted her career and her relations with the media. She handles her interviews perfectly--is always pleasant, polite, and positive. You always hear about the importance of good sportsmanship and grace under pressure, and Michelle exemplifies these qualities more than any athlete I know. Even at her lowest moments, she has never been less than gracious and polite. That takes real courage and character, IMO. When you've suffered a major life disappointment like losing the Olympics, it's easy to take the low road, as Nancy Kerrigan did, and make catty, mean comments about your competitors. It's so much harder to take the high road, and I admire Michelle tremendously for doing that after Nagano and Salt Lake. And although it's true that Michelle's comments to the press are pretty bland and innocuous, that's not always a bad idea, particularly when talking about other people. I tend to go by the old rule: "If you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say it at all."

I also agree with Mathman and others that Michelle's positive attitude and good-girl image are an intrinsic part of her appeal. Michelle's fans love her as much for her gracious personality as for her victories. I don't think any of her fans would want to see that change, especially if it were simply for the sake of becoming a bigger celebrity. Do we really need or want divas in figure skating? I guess this is the question.

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I'll answer the last question first-- Yes, we need and want divas in figure skating. A diva-less skating world would be like a diva-less opera world. If you don't put spice in your spaghetti, all you have is tomato sauce. However, we don't need MANY divas in skating. One diva per Olympic cycle is plenty.

Re: "If you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say it at all." A skater can be funny, flamboyant, intellectual, eccentric, and all sorts of other things without behaving like a rude or unpleasant person. Heck, they can just talk about their dog! Or their car. Or why Paris is their favorite city. Or why they like to listen to Kenny G.

There are times when I respect a skater for not being "nice." The ice dancers who signed that petition on behalf of Drobiazko and Vanagas weren't being "nice." They were upset about the way their sport was judged and they spoke up about it.

You're right that a skater can definitely be fun, flamboyant, flashy, and still nice. I wouldn't argue with you there.

In mentioning the "be nice" rule, I was thinking more in terms of skaters like Nancy Kerrigan who have actually come out and made unpleasant comments about their competitors. That's not so nice--even coming from a diva.

Regarding the protest about the Chait/Sakhnovsky medal in 1998, I would argue that the skaters involved were making a political statement about the judging, as opposed to a personal statement about Chait/Sakhnovsky.

Jennifer Lyon said:

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There are times when I respect a skater for not being "nice." The ice dancers who signed that petition on behalf of Drobiazko and Vanagas weren't being "nice." They were upset about the way their sport was judged and they spoke up about it.

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Guess Rodman's antics when he was with the Warriors would also appeal to you as well as Sprewell's trying to choke his coach until pulled away by teammates as it "helps" the sport. Or perhaps haveing a player break another's face would also be good for the sport; or even O'Neal's hitting someone is also good media as well as his racist comments.

Fans have something with encouraging "boredom" as they can get into a mob melee like in soccer; or more mild actions like fans do at football games in throwing stuff at the officials and players.

If the fans' actions is too unboring, then the players/skaters can start hitting each other like in baseball since it will also garner media attention.

Another way to cure "boredom" is do what some local "teens" do, go on tire slashing spree for months because they were BORED.

Maybe there should be X-treme figure skating for the easily bored....

citrus said:

Guess Rodman's antics when he was with the Warriors would also appeal to you as well as Sprewell's trying to choke his coach until pulled away by teammates as it "helps" the sport. Or perhaps haveing a player break another's face would also be good for the sport; or even O'Neal's hitting someone is also good media as well as his racist comments.

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I don't think the signing of the petition(whether you agree with it or not) is equvilant to Sprewell trying to choke his coach.

citrus said:

Guess Rodman's antics when he was with the Warriors would also appeal to you as well as Sprewell's trying to choke his coach until pulled away by teammates as it "helps" the sport. Or perhaps haveing a player break another's face would also be good for the sport; or even O'Neal's hitting someone is also good media as well as his racist comments.

Fans have something with encouraging "boredom" as they can get into a mob melee like in soccer; or more mild actions like fans do at football games in throwing stuff at the officials and players.

If the fans' actions is too unboring, then the players/skaters can start hitting each other like in baseball since it will also garner media attention.

Another way to cure "boredom" is do what some local "teens" do, go on tire slashing spree for months because they were BORED.

Maybe there should be X-treme figure skating for the easily bored....

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A skater can be an interesting person or even a media star without being a diva, a bad sport, a rude person, a criminal, a drug addict, etc. I have already tried to explain this in my previous posts. Nowhere do I advocate violent behavior or unsportsmanlike conduct. So why are you twisting my words like this?

Jennifer Lyon said:

In what way is Mary Lou Retton's perkiness a bid for media attention? Or Andre Agassi's love life? Is he only allowed to date and marry non-celebrities? I wouldn't lump those two in with Dennis Rodman and Tonya Harding. But for the record, I don't think Tonya orchestrated the knee whack as a means of bringing attention to herself. I mean, think about it. Nancy getting whacked on the knee brings more attention to Nancy, not Tonya. At least, that was how it worked until Tonya and her cohorts got caught.

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Like the standing ovations that MK get's when she skates, Marylou is in demand, and a great Tennis player to marry a beautiful actress is in demand. Nothing boring with any of this. It is good publicity.

I thought we were discussing media blitz to make one less boring. Sorry about that. I agree with you on what you say but now I do not understand what you would expect MK to do to become less boring. Is Meryl Streep, a quiet actor, makes her movies, gives out an award occasionally and we know nothing more about her, also a bore?

Joe

insecureedge said:

Interesting snippets for those not wanting to register to read the article (although it is free...):







InsecureEdge

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Thanks insecureedge for posting that info. (don't want to register; lol ),

That said, I'm of the opinion that most of us saw this coming........i.e. less revenue in skating & therefore less prize money (btw feel sorry for those ones that aren't part of the elite & thus will feel it most).........also skating has been losing its popularity for some time now so it's no big surprise that the only one to pick up the t.v. contract is ESPN (btw I'm looking forward to their coverage; honestly enjoy it more than ABC & have for some time now; no lie).

It's too bad that this thread degenerated into, what I see, as a Michelle Kwan thread. Speaking for myself here, she isn't the one that drew me to skating in the first place nor is she the reason why I've maintained my fandom over the decades (though I do enjoy her skating, as I do many others as well). And I certainly don't believe that she has to so-call "save" skating, whether it be in pro. or eligible (lol). Nor anyone else for that matter ~ e.g. Sasha Cohen, Tara Lipinski, Sarah Hughes, etc. JMHO.

I just think that skating has entered that inevitable "slump".......as far as the general public goes......lots of factors (e.g. economy, controversy, so many channels to choose from nowadays, natural loss of interest in skating, interest in other sports, etc.). Doesn't necessarily have to be b/c there is no so-called charismatic star. However, that said, I think the latter does have a bit to do with it (but only a bit). For example, gymnastics experienced a rejuventation with such charismatic stars as Olga Korbut, Nadia Comaneci, and Mary Lou Retton. Likewise, skating attracted big numbers in the public with such ones as Sonja Henie (be all & end as far as I'm concerned ), Peggy Fleming, Dorothy Hamill, Katarina Witt, and then the Tonya-Nancy Fiasco. Now we're coasting along, which is natural ~ every sport experiences such a coast ~ in fact, it's more of the rule rather than the exception IMHO. But sooner or later that blazing comet will come along & pull in the numbers again. JMHO.

Peace & Love, Nadine

P.S. It's nice to see you posting again, Jen. Likewise,
HAPPY BIRTHDAY, RGIRL (just noticed that it's your b-day today)!

What I see is the reaction of a lot of posters who became attracted to this sport post-94 kneewhack. It's sad because they are seeing a distorted view of the sport's popularity now that it's in it's normal proportions. Prior to 94, figure skating was far less popular than it is today. It was a niche sport that only really got any attention during the Olympic years. So the only "decline" is the natural rythym being restablished by a sport that, like so many other individual sports with sproradic competitions, gets overshadowed by more mainstream team or individual sports (like golf) that have games on every single week.

Michelle Kwan is the only universally known name in figure skating (at least in America). Most people who have never watched a single frame of skating still know that she's a figure skater. So I do think it's important to have some name recognition in a sport. What we need is more of those names.

Scandal will always inflate a sport. But is that what fans want? I'd rather figure skating find an organic way to get more recognition. A way that's honest to the sport.

Nadine said:

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, RGIRL (just noticed that it's your b-day today)!

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Thanks, Nadine! That's so you of you to notice and send b-day greetings (Saying thanks in the color of my birthstone.)

I'm 48 and looking forward to 50 so I can write my age as the Roman numeral C.

Enjoyed your post, too, Nadine. For once, I'm all tapped out on a subject. So my birthday present to the forum is not to say anything else about it
Rgirl

Jennifer Lyon said:

A skater can be funny, flamboyant, intellectual, eccentric, and all sorts of other things without behaving like a rude or unpleasant person. Heck, they can just talk about their dog! Or their car. Or why Paris is their favorite city. Or why they like to listen to Kenny G.

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ITA, Jennifer.

In the MK interview that I read last month, Michelle did talk about her dog (Tofu). She talked about why Hong Kong is one of her favorite cities. She talked about her favorite kind of cuisine (Japanese), and about some of her favorite sushi bars in various cities on tour.

The interviewer did ask what kind of music she listens to, and her response was to pull out the custom CD she was playing -- she gave the interview by cell phone as she was cruising down the freeway in her red Corvette -- and read off the artists, Nelly, Outkast,...

(Kenny G?)

The interviewer asked her what kind of movies she liked, and she said, heroic action movies like Braveheart and Gladiator.

She left us to wonder whether she sees herself as a gladiator when she competes, or whether this is the type of man that she admires. Her boyfriend, who she recently broke up with, is a professional hockey player (a rugged "tough-guy" enforcer type, who typically led his team in penalty minutes) -- maybe that counts as a gladiator.

No, she did not say that she thinks male figure skaters "look hot in their leather pants," to quote an earlier post. (Think about it, LOL.) When she was a teenager she thought Leonardo DiCaprio was hot. But she got over it, as everyone else did. She frequently attends movie premiers (by invitation) as an LA A-list celebrity, occasionally with a date.

According to Michelle, there is a down side to being a celebrity: it is hard to meet men "in the normal way" because everyone she meets already has a pre-conceived opinion about her. She says she is nervous when she meets an interesting man because she can't help thinking in the back of her mind, "What does he think of me?"

(I don't mean to imply that our baby is on the prowl. Still, she did recently break up with her long-term boyfriend...)

In another interview she talked about studying French at UCLA. She was a little embarrassed about the fact that she could only work one or two classes a year into her schedule. She reminisced about the one semester when she lived in the dorm as a regular student -- "Party in Michelle's room, everybody!"

To each his own, I guess. Me? I like the girl.

OT -- When the Detroit Pistons were winning NBA championships in 1989 and 1990, yes, Dennis Rodman was often in the newspapers. Like the time he was found in the parking lot of the Palace at 4 AM with a loaded gun threatening to kill himself. However, I think that the reason people came to Pistons games was not because of interest in Rodman's mental health or behavioral aberrations, but because the team was contending for the championship.

Just my opinion.

Mathman