Have outfits simply gone over the top? | Page 8 | Golden Skate

Have outfits simply gone over the top?

aftertherain

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Carolina's LP dress intrigues me, not in a perverted way mind you. I was expecting something kind of out there although I could never imagine she would come up with that. The nude colored panty portion had me baffled, but in HD you can see it's crystallized which kind of makes it appear less nude to me. Actually the draped skirt flaps up a lot less than a traditional skirt would.

Look, I'll be blunt.

It is easily the ugliest thing she has ever worn.

http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Carolina+Kostner+Rostelecom+Cup+ISU+Grand+V_8aPr3Y3DCx.jpg

If I had any idea that she was going to show up in this, I would have taken it all back. I'd rather her wear what she wore to CoC instead.
 

Matilda

Medalist
Joined
Dec 19, 2012
Matilda,I'm not sure I understand your first sentence. Johnny likes to work it both ways, no pun intended. He uses his gender bending to get reality TV shows, then decries the fact Smucker's don't like him. Then he gets his fans to think he does not get the marks because he is "different." He is hardly a victim. He is a very smart, crafty fellow who learned any publicity translates into money.

Johnny had no reliable quad. What he did in Vancouver was beautiful 6.0 skating. He had no transitions. The fact that better skaters whose coaches know how to play CoP outskated him explain his rank. Maybe he could have been a bit higher. But who would you mark lower? Johnny never really grew as a skater. He did grow as an exhibitionist. And no, I don't have to like some pictures that were so unwholesome I go "yeech." I don't have to like men in heals, or pretend I do. If the judges could not get behind Johnny, it may have been his dated skating. And if they were privately offended or angry at the effect he had on male FS perception, do you blame them?

He got himself in front of every camera. he did anything for publicity. He did win because he is doing commentary in Sochi and NBC is salivating, hoping he will open is mouth and get arrested. Or kiss his husband. NBC know there could be trouble. Just the way TV bagged nancy after 94 Olympic comments, even in Massachusetts, the way they trashed Tonya every way they could, the way they let us know Pasha ice dancer was a homewrecker. They are shamelessly hoping for controversy now.

Either that or Johnny has finally found acceptance. But he sure has toned down the outfits since he married a lawyer. Maybe he just grew up and realized that people were tired of him. Whatever it takes to remain relevant means an income stream. If people got bored of skin and the maxi dress was worn everywhere, Madonna would adapt. This is the nature of publicity hounds. I don't know him. Maybe he is a nice guy. But his "victim" stance and way he trashed an actual OGM champion (Evan) was pretty awful. And trying to out him was even worse. If I could meet any skater for a chat, Johnny would not be it. I don't really respect him. Should I?

Wow, one sentence re. Johnny ignited this rant? I'm not going to engage this further than to say that Johnny's career in skating did not start in Vancouver, nor did the problems that USFSA and some fans had with him not fitting the norms. And his publicity and colorful persona has, whether you like it or not, brought new fans to the sport.

My main concern with your previous comments was, in fact, more generally the idea that "effeminate" clothing on male skaters is unacceptable. This is a narrow and potentially harmful attitude, and seems to frequently extend not just to clothing, but also to skating style. Skate Canada and USFSA have both actively tried to "butch up" the image of men's figure skating, and I think it's a wrong-headed move. For example, last season Adam Rippon had a choreographer who said he felt Adam's style had been too effeminate and he tried to create a more "masculine" program and style for him. That Mad Men program did not work for Adam at all--the style and the program simply weren't true to him, and it was obvious in his skating. The more lyrical programs of this season suit him a lot better, and it shows in his interpretation. More comfortable with the style of his programs and with the improved technique under Arutunian, Adam is now a contender for Sochi.

Whether a skater is "butch" or "effeminate" should be irrelevant. There should be room for many different kinds of skating styles and costuming, both in men's and women's skating--I personally find the variety to be wonderful. What should matter at the end of the day is the quality of performance--technically as well as artistically--in any given competition.

I 'd also like to point out that femininity and masculinity are not absolute terms, but social constructs that vary from one culture to another--and from one historical era to another even within the same culture.

Also, I'd still like you to answer my question: what do you mean by saying that Rudy was "the real deal"?
 

skateluvr

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
It's required, but they aren't forced - if you don't want to you don't have to become a Kerri Walsh... the idea is it's "beach" volleyball so look like you're at the beach. Interestingly enough the guys are not just in swimming trunks.

Volleyball is a real sport so putting it in quotes is demeaning.


The original Olympians (wayyyyyyyyyy back in time, you know, history) were naked or very nearly so. Guess we're "regressing" in honor of history.


My argument is still the same - this issue of bad costumes is nothing new, so where do we draw the line. MK's dresses are great, sure, but if she's walking around town wearing something with that short of a skirt she'd have "ho" (oh, look, another demeaning ****-shaming term!) length going on. The difference is she is well liked so it's "okay" and any miss is dismissed. In fact all the other women brought up with their "misses" have been dismissed. I just don't get the whole "let's attack these three skaters because of their costumes." So they're tacky/in poor taste. It's not hampering them from getting the job done.


Actually I thought it was lovely on TV, it wasn't until I saw the up close photos that it really looked awful. It'd be interesting to see it live and not under a camera flash.

OK, Toni, it depends on who posts what. You are just very oppositional to me for some reason. No, it isn't any 3 skaters. I said that. Not true, and you keep harping that. It makes me look like its a vendetta against 3 skaters. who. is number three, BTW? I and others hated hanyus blouse. I and others were offended by Sotnikova's see through negligee with thong showing butt crack. When I saw the front close up I was horrified. ZI have answered any critics thoroughly, and the consensus is yuck to both. Many won't comment as they are afraid to be attacked if they use the world girlish or effeminate. It is what it is.

And no, it is not a sport if you insist the players wear bikinis. Why not one piece suits, or a choice/ Why not shorts and a midriff top? A sport where they must wear bikinis? And you don't see that for what it is? Please. You are all over the map. Your viewpoint ios inconsistent, and incoherent and oppositional to what I personally say. If I said bikinis must be worn because the men love it more, writhing in the sand, you'd cry sexist. DESENSITIZATION of the young with short historical perspective. You have said you are Christian, don't enjoy the gender bending. Do you think God is pleased with styles?

Modesty is better, and I do not think a sport that forces women to wear the briefest covering is much of a sport. I do not like beauty pageants-they are taking women backwards into being sex objects. Do you know what Miss America must do? Chicken cutlets for those who don't want to implant. Miss Universe can be a man with gender surgery I think I read, maybe I am wrong. They ALL have implants. tHE Donald LIKES IT THAT WAY.

WE HAVE LOST GROUND IN EVERY WAY AS WOMEN IN THIS COUNTRY and the world. I don't watch beach volleyball. The girls inside don't wear bathing suits. Is that next? T shirts and shorts are fine, but maybe they just want those male viewers points. 20 years ago there would have been an outcry. The Bachelor was decried in its first season for many reasons. Now it is in 15 season or something- one guy, 25 women all crazy in a house after 1 guy. The breakdowns are just good TV.

I'm done with subject as it is time consuming to repeat myself. Trash is trashy. :no:
 

skateluvr

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
Wow, one sentence re. Johnny ignited this rant? I'm not going to engage this further than to say that Johnny's career in skating did not start in Vancouver, nor did the problems that USFSA and some fans had with him not fitting the norms. And his publicity and colorful persona has, whether you like it or not, brought new fans to the sport.

My main concern with your previous comments was, in fact, more generally the idea that "effeminate" clothing on male skaters is unacceptable. This is a narrow and potentially harmful attitude, and seems to frequently extend not just to clothing, but also to skating style. Skate Canada and USFSA have both actively tried to "butch up" the image of men's figure skating, and I think it's a wrong-headed move. For example, last season Adam Rippon had a choreographer who said he felt Adam's style had been too effeminate and he tried to create a more "masculine" program and style for him. That Mad Men program did not work for Adam at all--the style and the program simply weren't true to him, and it was obvious in his skating. The more lyrical programs of this season suit him a lot better, and it shows in his interpretation. More comfortable with the style of his programs and with the improved technique under Arutunian, Adam is now a contender for Sochi.

Whether a skater is "butch" or "effeminate" should be irrelevant. There should be room for many different kinds of skating styles and costuming, both in men's and women's skating--I personally find the variety to be wonderful. What should matter at the end of the day is the quality of performance--technically as well as artistically--in any given competition.

I 'd also like to point out that femininity and masculinity are not absolute terms, but social constructs that vary from one culture to another--and from one historical era to another even within the same culture.

Also, I'd still like you to answer my question: what do you mean by saying that Rudy was "the real deal"?

Re your "rant" since u used such a negative to me term but defend your Johnny. How would anyone know without a national poll whether he BROUGHT fans or LOST FANS????? Where is your data, not opionion? Next, His programs were 6.0 no quad, he stopped winning as time went on. Yet he portrayed the victim thing. Hardly.

He played games, sat in bathtubs with his friends, wore fur everything. He is an exhibitionist, just starting to tone it down to fit in and get commentator work. Look how he went after Evan. jealous much?

He is hardly a role model for anyone. His anthem is I do as I please. That's original.

As for Adam, I find him true to himself, elegant not effeminate. Hanyu's skating is not particularly effeminate. I was referring to his awful, tack, OT blouse. Yuck.

And Rudy came out when no other skater did, even told about his AIDS which could have finished his career. He went through so much. He was disliked for his effeminate balletic style, but he stayed true to himself. He didn't out anyone and if he attacked a more successful skater, I never heard it. He did not make a career out of 'I'm gay and I'm gonna push my agenda.' He simply didn't lie. I have to admire a lot about him...esp that 1996 skate after he lost dad, brother, coach. He is genuine, at least as far as I know. That's my answer and done with topic.:yes:
 

Matilda

Medalist
Joined
Dec 19, 2012
Re your "rant" since u used such a negative to me term but defend your Johnny. How would anyone know without a national poll whether he BROUGHT fans or LOST FANS????? Where is your data, not opionion? Next, His programs were 6.0 no quad, he stopped winning as time went on. Yet he portrayed the victim thing. Hardly.

He played games, sat in bathtubs with his friends, wore fur everything. He is an exhibitionist, just starting to tone it down to fit in and get commentator work. Look how he went after Evan. jealous much?

He is hardly a role model for anyone. His anthem is I do as I please. That's original.

As for Adam, I find him true to himself, elegant not effeminate. Hanyu's skating is not particularly effeminate. I was referring to his awful, tack, OT blouse. Yuck.

And Rudy came out when no other skater did, even told about his AIDS which could have finished his career. He went through so much. He was disliked for his effeminate balletic style, but he stayed true to himself. He didn't out anyone and if he attacked a more successful skater, I never heard it. He did not make a career out of 'I'm gay and I'm gonna push my agenda.' He simply didn't lie. I have to admire a lot about him...esp that 1996 skate after he lost dad, brother, coach. He is genuine, at least as far as I know. That's my answer and done with topic.:yes:

I'm sorry about using the word "rant"--your focus on Johnny just seems disproportionate to me in relation to the topic of this thread. To answer your request for statistics, I obviously have none--but he has a large following on twitter and I've seen many people say they became interested in the sport thanks to him. I doubt, however, that anyone who already was a fan would leave the sport just because they don't like one skater.

The choreographer said HE thought Adam's style was effeminate. I'm glad you find his skating elegant--so do I.

Kudos to Rudy--but that doesn't mean that gay skaters after him can't be role models as well.

Anyway, I hope we could be less judgmental of the skaters, their styles of skating and clothing, weight, etc. and focus on encouraging all the skaters instead.
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
I was unaware that what you wore is what made it a sport. :unsure:

Matilda said:
Anyway, I hope we could be less judgmental of the skaters, their styles of skating and clothing, weight, etc. and focus on encouraging all the skaters instead.

Unfortunately on skating forums (or any sports specific forum... or any anonymous forum of any subject) that just doesn't work. :no:
 

Matilda

Medalist
Joined
Dec 19, 2012
I was unaware that what you wore is what made it a sport. :unsure:



Unfortunately on skating forums (or any sports specific forum... or any anonymous forum of any subject) that just doesn't work. :no:

I know. It's too bad--and the reason why I stayed away from the forums for the longest time. I enjoy many discussions here, but I honestly don't understand aggressive negative critique of a skater's style, appearance, or persona. I spend many hours a week at the rink and see first hand the work and pain that goes into the training, even before the skaters reach junior level. The ones that become national and international medal contenders have worked extremely hard to get there and have sacrificed years and years of normal life to reach that level. We may or may not like the style or persona of all skaters, but I think every single one of them deserves our respect.

Besides, I don't think difference is a negative thing--variety makes competition so much more interesting! I don't think even the most ardent Michelle Kwan fans would like to see a competition full of Michelle clones ;)
 

bigsisjiejie

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 22, 2009
Like it or not, costuming is a part of the packaging of a skater and their program. It's not possible for fans to avert their eyes and ignore the costume! I happen to be of a conservative bent and dislike the Porn Stars on Ice look for anybody but especially for a skater not yet an adult. I can't define it, but I know it when I see it. I find questionably cut, provocative, too much bare skin or illusion, and inadequate underskirt coverage with commensurate butt-cheek reveals, to all be in that category. In fact, I find such costumes actually distract me from the skating....which may or may not be what the skater's team intends. Usually the Russians lead the Bad Taste parade, which is why I was quite heartened to see Julia L's FS costume--tasteful, well-cut, appropriate to age and music, elegant, and an enhancement to her skating not a distraction. IMO one of the big winners of the skating fashion season so far. I find her countrywoman Sotnikova's dress to be unspeakable. Kostner, who is well into adulthood and normally has decent taste in costumes and access to some good designers, notched up an Epic Fail with this new beaded-bikini thing. She should save it for next Carnival season in Rio.
 

skateluvr

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
Like it or not, costuming is a part of the packaging of a skater and their program. It's not possible for fans to avert their eyes and ignore the costume! I happen to be of a conservative bent and dislike the Porn Stars on Ice look for anybody but especially for a skater not yet an adult. I can't define it, but I know it when I see it. I find questionably cut, provocative, too much bare skin or illusion, and inadequate underskirt coverage with commensurate butt-cheek reveals, to all be in that category. In fact, I find such costumes actually distract me from the skating....which may or may not be what the skater's team intends. Usually the Russians lead the Bad Taste parade, which is why I was quite heartened to see Julia L's FS costume--tasteful, well-cut, appropriate to age and music, elegant, and an enhancement to her skating not a distraction. IMO one of the big winners of the skating fashion season so far. I find her countrywoman Sotnikova's dress to be unspeakable. Kostner, who is well into adulthood and normally has decent taste in costumes and access to some good designers, notched up an Epic Fail with this new beaded-bikini thing. She should save it for next Carnival season in Rio.

This. exactly. every word, better than my verbosity. The thread was fun, then got serious. We always comment on costumes and the comp threads are full of accurate, even funny. This is in no way talking about work ethic. And the "new Johnny" is much more tolerable. Maybe his TV show was better than the few tub scenes. Since he married a conservative 9relatively speaking) lawyer, he has dialed it way down. I don't know the guy. I am sure he has attracted new viewers, he has also turned off plenty if on reads threads over the years. He is growing up, and I think way more secure. He doesn't have to be "judged" on ice anymoe. He is in the commentator role. He himself is very critical of outfits, note his comments on caro's unfortunate choice. European and Russian taste is all over the map. What is considered stunning to tarasova, I might hate. I did not like the whole package poor Mao got in Vancouver.

YuNa's primarily Canadian team got it perfect, the right music for her, glitzy but costumes she could pull off. perfect length even for her legs and frame. Mao skated so well, given what she had to work with. mao and Japanese ladies have ornate costumes, but most of the top ladies now look really great out there. I am a fan of the minimalist Vera Wang, but can appreciate Mao's current dresses. I think the Japanese ladies are elegant and never trashy looking. In general, many men are a little OT these days, but I don't think Hanyu, to bring it back to the blouse most hate who weighed in, is conveying Romeo and Juliet with his costume. It could be so much better and still be "dressy" to suit his taste. Johnny is a terrible choice for designer. I think judges prefer a more conservative look on men. But when you skate as well as Hanyu can, it probably ceases to matter to judges.

When I think of 1988, the battle of the Brians, with both looking military, I kinda liked that. But I also remember browning showing off curves in Brick House. I can't blame these well toned athletes for showing off their bodies, but see through is very distracting. maybe that is the point as big sis said, and I did earlier.

As for the beach volleyballers, I'm still in shock they are forced to play in bikinis. That surely is asking for embarrassing slips. I imagine that must be the number one Olympic sport for heterosexual men?:laugh:
 

Pepe Nero

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 11, 2011
Here is what the ISU rules have to say (Rule 500, paragraph 2, page 80 of the official regulations ;) ):



They recently dropped the language that said ladies must wear a skirt of sufficient length to cover the buttocks. That is, ladies can wear pants now -- but if they do wear a skirt, of course it must be modest, dignified and appropriate to athletic competition. :yes:

(I wish I knew how to include the thing you quoted, Mathman, in my post.) I find this really helpful, because it shows that despite the seemingly daily widening perception that people are free to be whom they wish, this is not true in figure skating. For, in figure skating, one must follow the conventional gender norms of European America in the 1960s.

"Men must wear trousers; no tights are permitted." !!?? Let's not talk about whether one likes men wearing tights or not. Let's talk about the absurdity, in this day and age, of enforcing distinct rules for females and males. Is this the 1800s?

I'm not a fan of the whole gender bender idea - I'm totally fine with there being girls and boys and sets of "appropriate" clothing for each in the workplace and on ice.

That being said, those that are being hammered here for their "effeminate" clothing just don't come off as that (okay Johnny has gone over the top, and I don't like them, but I don't think it's what has caused the downfall of the sport in North America).

I don't like gender bending either, Tonichelle. I'd rather just get rid of gender.

I hope my previous post wasn't what you had in mind when you mentioned the view that "effeminacy" has caused the downfall of the sport in NA. Rather, what I meant to indicate was my view that the problem is the attitude that there is something wrong with (what is called) femininity among men. It is bias against femininity (especially as evinced by men) that I think contributes to the unpopularity of FS in NA, in my view. (There are other problems too, to be sure.)
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
I hope my previous post wasn't what you had in mind when you mentioned the view that "effeminacy" has caused the downfall of the sport in NA. Rather, what I meant to indicate was my view that the problem is the attitude that there is something wrong with (what is called) femininity among men. It is bias against femininity (especially as evinced by men) that I think contributes to the unpopularity of FS in NA, in my view. (There are other problems too, to be sure.)

No, you weren't the one who is arguing for effeminate costumes in mens skating to be done away with. I got that. :)

Gender happens, I'm not unisex, no one is without a little help from the medical field. It's not something to be done away with or embarrassed by. The idea that inanimate objects or colors or whatever has gender specific uses is what needs to change, not gender itself.
 

Barb

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 13, 2009
http://www.sport-express.ru/newspaper/2013-12-02/16_2/?view=page
you can get traslated in google.

interview: You once said that you do not care what the ride. However, your costumes this season - especially one that is sewn to any program - caused a lively discussion. How about that?
- I did not really think about what I'm wearing. When, after the first hire I was told that the dress for any program on TV looks like I'm riding naked, decided to change it. Now suit further obscured, so I feel quite comfortable in it.

I didn´t see her first costume but so her costume in Paris is aparently better :p.

And she aparently read figure skating forums, so I guess I must to be more careful with my comments :slink:, really it is logic, figure skating community is small, if figure skaters, their families and coaches need information as links or news definitly forums are a good source :cool:

interview :Irritating thing is that it does not always work?
- Irritating when it begin to discuss my overly same fans, and with the position that, at times Sotnikova nothing happens, we should start to hurt someone else. Naturally, I find it insulting to read this on the internet.
 

Sochi_2014

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 4, 2013
Of course no one has as classy of dresses as Alissa Czisny.

But I do love a lot of the dresses this year. Mao's new SP dress is very becoming on her. I also love Elena Radionova's SP dress, the color is great on a young girl.

I might be in the minority, but I loved Ashley's original Romeo and Juliet dress this year (the orange one).

I dislike Gold's dresses this year, though I love her.

My very favorite dress this year is Samantha Cesario's LP dress for Carmen. So classy and beautiful on her, and she has the body for it.

Carolina Kostner's dresses have never done much for me, including this year. In fact, Johnny Weir said he was confused as to whether her LP dress was a poolside dress in Vegas. :laugh:

As for the gloves, I don't like them either, but I think they are more noticeable on some skaters than others, such as on Elene Gedevanishvili they are very distracting.
 
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