Why is pairs skating the least popular of the 4 disciplines amongst fans? | Golden Skate

Why is pairs skating the least popular of the 4 disciplines amongst fans?

Mao88

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Why is pairs skating the least popular of the 4 disciplines amongst fans?

I have noticed over the last few years that pairs skating seems to have become by far the least favourite of the 4 disciplines (i.e. men's, ladies, pairs, ice dance) amongst fans. In the forums during major competitions, it always seems to be the pairs SP's and LP's that get the least 'views' and 'replies'. Moreover, whenever I do my video lists, it is always the pairs videos that are the most difficult to find. For instance, it was impossible to find any videos for the first warm up group for the pairs SP at TEB by the time I completed the lists (the situation may well have now changed since - I have not checked). This is in part because TV coverage for the pairs competitions seems to be less thorough. I imagine this is because viewing figures for the pairs events are lower, thereby given the TV companies a reason not to show them in full. I know Eurosport did not show the first warm up group for the TEB pairs SP.

So, why have the pairs events become seemingly less popular in recent years?
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
you are talking about North American audience right ?
I can as well ay Ice Dance just got recently popular in North America because of D/W and V/M

I like Pairs skating after ladies, and im not North American
I find Ice Dance the easiest but I've learned to like it since D/W began skating in 2010 and get to learn more of the elements
 

lcd

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 11, 2007
To me, it is the notable weakness in skating skills amongst the majority of the current teams. I would argue that CoP's has contributed to emphasizing elements which actually exaggerate the lack of skating skills - such as really uncomfortably clumsy footwork sequences and Level requirements for death spirals which lead the teams to opt for ones which are aesthetically a lot less pleasing.

It also has not helped that many of the top teams over the past cycle or so, have not done much to either develop their personas beyond their status as athletes. I really couldn't tell you much about the personalities or the relationships between the athletes in many of the given teams.

The 'gold standards' in both of these regards - skating skills and 'human interest' - such as Rodnina/Zaitsev, Tai/Randy, Gordeeva/Grinkov and arguably the Salt Lake co-gold medalists plus Shen/Zhao - all gave so much more to admire in these departments, than the current crop of skaters either CAN or do, IMO.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
Simple answer: Pairs is not popular in North America and never have been, North American media still generate most of the media coverage despite an anemic audience, but Pairs outside NA, is not low as its made out like in China, Japan, Russia, and other European countries
 

lcd

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 11, 2007
Simple answer: Pairs is not popular in North America and never have been, North American media still generate most of the media coverage despite an anemic audience, but Pairs outside NA, is not low as its made out like in China, Japan, Russia, and other European countries

Agree with your points made here Sky+fly20 as well. Just the approach taken by the major network with license to broadcast in the US - NBC Sports. Their weekly summary broadcast of the Grand Prix events BY DESIGN focuses almost entirely on singles. Even if Davis/White and the Shibutani's are the only consistent medalists across all of US Figure Skating's team during the past cycle, they rarely if ever make the broadcast. Pairs? Forget about it, unless there's some sort of horrific collision or fall.
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
I don't often find myself in agreement with sky_fly20, but I agree to some extent this time: what you're describing is a lack of popularity in specific places - my guess would be the US (thus the fewer forum posts on the more NA-centric GS) and Japan (where I think many skating videos originate). But I just checked on FSU, and the PBP pairs threads don't seem to be drawing less interest than the rest - it's comparable in most cases to ice dance, and then in some countries, such as China and Russia, pairs skating is extremely popular.

TV coverage probably has a lot to do with the scheduling at each event, which is likely affected by popularity and other concerns.

Personally I think the IJS has been worse for ice dance than for pairs. Ice dance is now acrobatic speed skating with ugly lifts, and I find very few teams enjoyable.
 

Pasdedeux

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 26, 2013
I like pairs a lot, so I have been thinking about this too. Pairs has not been a popular discipline for quite some time: in most events (other than in China and maybe Russia) pairs skate first - the place usually reserved for the least interesting competitors :(. I think it might be because often pairs skaters are the ones that were not successful as singles skaters. It is interesting in this respect that both Aljona and Tatyana said at some point that they specifically wanted to skate pairs because of all the pairs tricks. Maybe that's way they are so good? Also, it seems to me that a significant part of a pairs routine (lifts and twists) showcases not the skating skills but acrobatic ability and is therefore closer to a circus performance (I don't mean it in a derogatory way) than the actual skating.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
agreed, nobody seems to notice Ice Dance although shifted after the CoP to North America
it is the discipline that suffered the most, now the couples have almost the same elements, almost similar lifts and all about speed

as Anissina have said regarding her comeback: I can come back, Ice Dance is doing the same elements over and over again
 

koatcue

Medalist
Joined
Aug 31, 2011
Country
Russia
It's because of the weak field and obvious winners from Russia/China/Germany..It's too predictable.
 

BlackPack

Medalist
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
A lack of talent and the new system's demands for "difficulty" which lends to ugly choreography. There has been no one at the level of Shen & Zhao, B&S, G&G, M&D. While S&S, V&T, and P&T are very good, they just aren't the best pairs skating has ever seen. Aside from V&T's recent efforts, most teams are inconsistent and frequently bomb. Not very inspiring especially when fans have been spoiled with such greatness in the 90s and early 00s.
 

brightphoton

Medalist
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
I've always thought pairs should be scrapped. For me, a good pairs skate is one in which the girl doesn't end the performance in a wheelchair.
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
I like pairs a lot, so I have been thinking about this too. Pairs has not been a popular discipline for quite some time: in most events (other than in China and maybe Russia) pairs skate first - the place usually reserved for the least interesting competitors :(. I think it might be because often pairs skaters are the ones that were not successful as singles skaters. It is interesting in this respect that both Aljona and Tatyana said at some point that they specifically wanted to skate pairs because of all the pairs tricks. Maybe that's way they are so good? Also, it seems to me that a significant part of a pairs routine (lifts and twists) showcases not the skating skills but acrobatic ability and is therefore closer to a circus performance (I don't mean it in a derogatory way) than the actual skating.
When ice dance still used the three-segment format, competitions started with ice dance rather than pairs. I don't know what the reasons are for the standard order at major events (pairs/men/dance/ladies) but it's not because the men are not popular, I'd imagine. As for GPs, TEB switched the order this year, before that I'm pretty sure that the men were the first event and ice dance was last. I think the men will go first at the GPF, while Euros this year will have a pretty wacky schedule ending with the pairs. I wouldn't read too much into it.

Pairs skaters = failed singles is true in some countries, not so true in others.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
Pairs skaters = failed singles is true in some countries, not so true in others.

I think this is kind of offensive
that would be like saying Pairs are singles skaters who were bad jumpers
and Ice Dance being easy and single skaters who could not do any jumps at all
 

Pasdedeux

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 26, 2013
When ice dance still used the three-segment format, competitions started with ice dance rather than pairs. I don't know what the reasons are for the standard order at major events (pairs/men/dance/ladies) but it's not because the men are not popular, I'd imagine. As for GPs, TEB switched the order this year, before that I'm pretty sure that the men were the first event and ice dance was last. I think the men will go first at the GPF, while Euros this year will have a pretty wacky schedule ending with the pairs. I wouldn't read too much into it.

Pairs skaters = failed singles is true in some countries, not so true in others.

Buttercup, I stand corrected then :). I have no idea about protocol anyway.

About who ends up in pairs, perhaps it is not wise to make generalizations. I only have a few examples: Gordeeva in her book said she started as a singles skater but was never a strong jumper, so she got switched to pairs. Robin Szolkowy said in an interview that he also skated singles but other boys started surpassing him at one point so he switched. I am pretty sure I read somewhere that Meagan Duhamel was a singles skater (I think they were complimenting her on her ability to jump the lutz) but had issues with nerves and found it easier to skate with someone else (?)... Two young girls I skate on the same ice with here in the US recently switched to pairs because their jumping was not good enough for singles. So I guess, I just made that conclusion :). I don't know much at all about how pairs are made up in China where it is obviously a very popular discipline.
 

tulosai

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
Buttercup, I stand corrected then :). I have no idea about protocol anyway.

About who ends up in pairs, perhaps it is not wise to make generalizations. I only have a few examples: Gordeeva in her book said she started as a singles skater but was never a strong jumper, so she got switched to pairs. Robin Szolkowy said in an interview that he also skated singles but other boys started surpassing him at one point so he switched. I am pretty sure I read somewhere that Meagan Duhamel was a singles skater (I think they were complimenting her on her ability to jump the lutz) but had issues with nerves and found it easier to skate with someone else (?)... Two young girls I skate on the same ice with here in the US recently switched to pairs because their jumping was not good enough for singles. So I guess, I just made that conclusion :). I don't know much at all about how pairs are made up in China where it is obviously a very popular discipline.

I mean, while some probably make the switch for the reasons you describe, in reality pairs requires many skills that single skating does not, and is (IMO) more difficult than singles skating, if anything.

First, to be a pairs skater (even more than any other discipline) you need a very special body type. Many people I thinka re encouraged to make the switch (especially short, tiny ladies) simply because they have this body type and almost totally beyond any other considerations.

Once you've crossed that threshold, you have to be comfortable executing lifts and throws, both of which are much harder than they look. You have to learn to skate in unison with your partner (much much harder than it looks) and you have to have or work to develop some 'connection' with your partner that others can see. You need to be committed not just to skating but also to the partnership.

So I think it is way more nuanced than just 'those who can't jump, pair' and it is really not true that the jumps are harder than other elements that the pairs are expected to execute.
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Buttercup, I stand corrected then :). I have no idea about protocol anyway.

About who ends up in pairs, perhaps it is not wise to make generalizations. I only have a few examples: Gordeeva in her book said she started as a singles skater but was never a strong jumper, so she got switched to pairs. Robin Szolkowy said in an interview that he also skated singles but other boys started surpassing him at one point so he switched. I am pretty sure I read somewhere that Meagan Duhamel was a singles skater (I think they were complimenting her on her ability to jump the lutz) but had issues with nerves and found it easier to skate with someone else (?)... Two young girls I skate on the same ice with here in the US recently switched to pairs because their jumping was not good enough for singles. So I guess, I just made that conclusion :). I don't know much at all about how pairs are made up in China where it is obviously a very popular discipline.
No worries, joining a forum is the best way to get more information and perspectives!

Re singles to pairs, there are of course such examples - a famous one is that Maxim Marinin made the switch after losing to a much younger Evgeni Plushenko. But some skaters were always meant to go into pairs, while others competed in more than one discipline until finding the best fit. There are also skaters who switched from singles to ice dance, which is tough because the skill set is quite different. John Kerr is a notable example, and at a lower level, Alper Ucar, the male half of the first Turkish dance team to qualify for the Olympics. The Spanish ice dancers Hurtado/Diaz were singles skaters who really wanted to go into ice dance, and got the go-ahead from their federation when she was 15 and he was 18. Nathalie Pechalat made the switch at a younger age, having apparently decided that she "liked jumping but not falling" ;)

There are of course some skaters who went in the opposite direction, like Yamaguchi/Galindo, but that's probably less common. Although some female pairs skaters who found themselves partnerless have tried singles - Jamie Sale did so before pairing up with David Pelletier, and Israel's Dani Montalbano is now skating in ladies rather than pairs after her partnership ended.

A lot of the Canadian skaters would compete in more than one discipline at the National level, even as seniors (Jessica Dube and Paul Poirier come to mind), and some Americans too (Charlie White also skated in singles when he was in junior).
 

LiamForeman

William/Uilyam
Medalist
Joined
Nov 24, 2006
I just find it excruciating with this new judging system. So much horrible choreography, and ugly moves for the sake of points. I also am not a fan of any pair team, they just do nothing to my sense of aesthetics.
 

noskates

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
I really enjoy pairs skating. And alot of good points have been made in this thread so far. BUT, speaking only for myself, I lose interest when there isn't anybody interesting to watch! I loved Shen and Zhao, loved Gordeeva and Grinkov, loved Sale and Pelletier, loved Sikh and his partner, and I'm really liking Denney and Coughlin. But there hasn't really been anybody other than Caydee and John in North America that strikes my interest enough to get really involved. Not a fan of Duhamel and her partner. She's way too athletic looking and I don't think they are graceful. None of the American pairs stay together long enough for anybody to get really attached to - hoping Denney and Coughlin don't retire after this year. And while CoP may have something to do with - it's certainly always easy to blame the scoring system - I do think the lack of TV coverage is the main problem. I have Universal this year and am enjoying the heck out of watching the younger pairs and wondering how long they'll stick around. But the point about North Americans getting interested in Ice Dance because of V&M and W &D is a great point. There are purists who just love skating in general - no matter who it is on the ice. Then there are people like me who have to feel some sort of attachment to maintain interest.
 

3T3T

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 1, 2007
Country
Ireland
Pairs is my favourite discipline. I love the SBS jumps, the throws, the lifts, the spins and the many variations on the death spiral (didn't at first though). There is a real sense of exictement about it, I would always look for the pairs videos on youtube which is now much easier due to MAO88's hard work. It takes real committment and dedication with a real sense of bravery/daredevilery to succeed in Pairs. There has been so many great and exciting couples down through the years mostly from Russia but in the current generation I like the Russians, S/S, P/T, MT/M, the new chinese teams, B/H.

I would still think it is very popular in Russia and China but I would have thought it was always the least popular in the States and that the US focus was always on singles as that is where they had all their success. I think all the disciplines have been impacted by COP mostly in a bad way, I find the calling of levels difficult at least with jumps, throws, lifts, spins (to a lesser extent) you can see what has happened.

If one event has been ruined by COP it is definitely Ice dance, nowadays every one seems to be doing the same thing and I have no idea how all the levels are worked out, many performances I enjoyed score low due to not hitting levels. One thing I think happens now is the D/W and V/M will be way ahead of the field but in terms of PCS I find that very hard to believe, are the rest that far behind? In the last few years I am not sure there is that many routines I consider memorable, I would definitely go with V/M for Mahler and Carmen, for one of the lower teams I would pick Z/S from a few years ago.

In summary Pairs is best.
 
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