Time for Tuktamysheva and Gachinski to change coaches and country?

Mao88 · Nov 24, 2013

Watching the Rostelecom Cup this week, the conclusion is inescapable that both Liza T and Artur Gachinski are going backwards rather than forwards. I think Gachinski stands no chance of making the Olympic team. His results this season and last have been awful. For a skater who finished 3rd at the 2011 World Championships and 2nd at the 2012 European Championships, it will be extremely disappointing to miss out on his home Olympics. Had he been in form last season, it would have been him rather than Kovtun who competed at Worlds, and had he been in anything like his form at 2011 Worlds, then Russia would have secured more spots for the Olympic team. With only 1 spot, which will almost certainly go to Plushenko or Kovtun, then, as stated, he will almost certainly miss out.

As for Tuk, I really can't see her obtaining one of the 2 spots available. Lipnitskaya will almost certainly get one of the spots, and with Liza failing to qualify for the GPF, Sotnikova and Pogorilaya are far better placed to obtain the final spot. Tuk has also not developed to a great extent artistically over the past couple of seasons. Whilst Mishin is well regarded as a technical coach, even in that area LIza has regressed. Her jumps have become very inconsistent, and she still has not resolved her SP issues, which persistently leave her well behind the competition by the FS stage

I think Mishin has taken Tuk and Artur as far as he can. Hence, is it time for both to switch coach? If so, which coach should they change to?

Also, with competition for places in the Russian team strengthening in terms of the next quadrennium, it is likely that both Tuk and Artur will find it even tougher to make the 2018 Olympic team. Hence, should they both follow the lead of Polina Shelepen and change country? If so, what are the options for both in terms of a change of country?

sky_fly20 · Nov 24, 2013

what ??? Isn't that over exaggeration, change country ? where ? lol

sure their Olympics chances are slim, Tuk particularly was not blessed with the right figure skating body and has weight issues
but she is not yet a Shelepen ( hopeless ) and she is injured this season. give her 2 more years before a final nail in the coffin can be confirmed.

CaroLiza_fan · Nov 24, 2013

Mao88 said:
I think Mishin has taken Tuk and Artur has taken as far as he can. Hence, is it time for both to switch coach? If so, which coach should they change to?

Also, with competition for places in the Russian team strengthening in terms of the next quadrennium, it is likely that both Tuk and Artur will find it even tougher to make the 2018 Olympic team. Hence, should they both follow the lead of Polina Shelepen and change country? If so, what are the options for both in terms of a change of country?

Even before we found out that Russia would only have 1 spot in the Men's category, it was very unlikely that Gachinski would get in the Olympic team. Plushy, Menshov and Voronov were always going to be ahead of him in the list of potential choices, and now Kovtun has shown that he is a genuine candidate as well.

As for the ladies, much as I love Liza, I do agree with you that Adelina and Julia are now the obvious choices. Of all the Russian ladies that are serious contenders for the spot, Julia is the most consistent at the moment. And she has the best programmes. So, she should definitely get on the team.

As for Anna, I think she would do well in Olympics/Worlds (probably top 10), but I don't think she is ready yet to challenge for a top 6 place. Plus, I think it would be too much of a risk to choose the 2 youngest girls.

So, it's a toss up between Adelina and Liza. Both can be inconsistent, but at the moment, Adelina is the least inconsistent. So, if I had the final say, I would choose Adelina.

So, what options are open to Artur and Liza?

Well, the only option that I can see open to them is leaving Mishin. But, even if they change coach, it doesn't guarantee that they will get into the team for Worlds (or Europeans) over the next few years, or into the team sent to the Pyeongchang Olympics.

And, as far as I know, there are no obvious alternative nationality options open to either of them.

However, there is one more option, but it's only open to Liza:

Marry me, and get British citizenship! :biggrin:

Then, when Jenna retires, you would be guaranteed the spot, as you would be in a totally different league to all the opposition!!!

And, if the British Federation is mad enough to turn you down, then you can try the Irish Federation (one of the perks of being from Northern Ireland is that I have dual nationality!)

Problem solved!

CaroLiza_fan

zamboni step · Nov 24, 2013

Suggesting she leaves the coach who gave her possibly the best jumping technique in the world is beyond jumping the gun, give her a year and then start with the hair raising plans for her future. Change of country would be just ridiculous for someone who was National Champion last year.

sky_fly20 said:
weight issues

Mathman · Nov 24, 2013

CaroLiza_fan said:
However, there is one more option, but it's only open to Liza:

Marry me, and get British citizenship!

LuisRollerArg · Nov 24, 2013

Liza participated injured in CoR... Back pains

YesWay · Nov 24, 2013

Mao88 said:
I think Mishin has taken Tuk and Artur has taken as far as he can. Hence, is it time for both to switch coach? If so, which coach should they change to?

I was thinking the same things this weekend. They both showed so much initial promise, but now seem to be moving backwards.

And I was struck by how well Lipnitskaya and Voronov seem to be doing under Eteri Tutberidze... but who knows what coach works for which skaters? I wonder if maybe any new coach would give them a well-needed fresh outlook at this stage.

CaroLiza_fan said:
However, there is one more option, but it's only open to Liza:

Marry me, and get British citizenship!

Liza competing for Britain?! I fully support this option :-D

ciocio · Nov 25, 2013

Coach yes, country no. :disapp:

coppertop1 · Nov 25, 2013

Changing countries isn't always the solution. Julia Soldatova switched to Belarus after not making the World Team in 2000. Her skating suffered from that and injuries. Maybe change coaches.

Her body has changed and she's adjusting, it doesn't mean she's done. All skaters, especially female skaters, go through that. Weight issues? How about we lay off making comments about skater's weight, especially a teenager's weight. That's why eating disorders happen, and happen in figure skating.

Gacinski has struggled since 2011 when he won bronze, I haven't seen him skate this year.

Alex D · Nov 25, 2013

coppertop1 said:
Changing countries isn't always the solution. Julia Soldatova switched to Belarus after not making the World Team in 2000. Her skating suffered from that and injuries. Maybe change coaches.

Her body has changed and she's adjusting, it doesn't mean she's done. All skaters, especially female skaters, go through that. Weight issues? How about we lay off making comments about skater's weight, especially a teenager's weight. That's why eating disorders happen, and happen in figure skating.

Gacinski has struggled since 2011 when he won bronze, I haven't seen him skate this year.

I agree with this one!

What Liza goes through now is something that many others before her had to go through. At this point in your career you need to adjust your techniques to match the new body measurements. This isn't her fault, or the fault of the coaches - it is the natural development process of a teenager who grows up

If everyone who goes through that changes the coaches or even the country then we most likely would have many more Skaters competing for Arabian countries

coppertop1 · Nov 25, 2013

Alex D said:
I agree with this one!

What Liza goes through now is something that many others before her had to go through. At this point in your career you need to adjust your techniques to match the new body measurements. This isn't her fault, or the fault of the coaches - it is the natural development process of a teenager who grows up

If everyone who goes through that changes the coaches or even the country then we most likely would have many more Skaters competing for Arabian countries

Exactly. It happened to everyone, even Michelle Kwan and Irina Slutskaya. It took Slutskaya a few years to get back her form. A girl's body changes, it fills out, they develop more prounounced hips and breasts, they look more like a woman and not like a kid. It's natural. It doesn't mean Liza won't regain her form and it doesn't mean she's fat. If skaters are fat we're all in trouble! Look at Mao Asada when she won the 2005 World Junior Title, and look at her now. She doesn't look the same, she's a young woman now. Changing countries won't fix that, and it may not work.

As for Gacinski, I have to see him skate but he's struggled since 2011, maybe a change of coach or maybe it's something else.

Icey · Nov 25, 2013

After marrying you, she would still have a waiting period of 3 years before she became a citizen.

Sasha'sSpins · Nov 25, 2013

I think changing countries is a bit extreme. There are exceptions of course, some athletes would do almost anything for a chance at an Olympic medal no matter who they represent but I think that the majority of athletes for the most part are patriots I am sure and would not feel comfortable representing any but their own homeland.

At the moment going by results Tuk and Gachinski are not looking good for making their respective Olympic squads. But that's no reason to change allegiance. Liza especially is still very young, she's only 16 and she may still have another chance, even two of making an Olympic team in future. And if she never does it doesn't mean she's a failure nor Gachinski. Not everyone gets a shot at grabbing that golden Olympic ring. But there are still World Championships and other competitions. Both can still have fulfilling careers.

Now, as to a coaching change that is certainly much more reasonable. A change has done others good, it might be the same for Tuktamysheva and Gachinski.

CaroLiza_fan · Nov 25, 2013

Icey said:
After marrying you, she would still have a waiting period of 3 years before she became a citizen.

Well, I'll just have to move quickly to get her status sorted in time for Pyeongchang, then!

Seriously, though, it is a real shame that Liza has found herself in this position. Like, this time last year, we all thought that Adelina and Liza were a sure bet to go to Sochi, along with Alena Leonova.

Now it looks as if the only Olympics Liza will compete at in her career is the 2012 Youth Olympics.

Why, oh why, did Russia have to have such a disappointing Worlds last season?!

Russia sent a very inexperienced (at senior level) team to Europeans, and they did very well. Then they sent their strongest Ladies team (at the time) to Worlds, and they were very disappointing. Why did it have to be Worlds where it all went pear-shaped?

In the Men's, Russia were right to see that Kovtun is the future. But, they made the mistake of sending him to Worlds a season too early. He wasn't ready then. If they had just sent Voronov or Menshov last year, they wouldn't be in the mess they are now.

The result is that Russia has a lot less slots for the Olympics than they should have had – 2 for the Ladies and 1 for the Men.

I feel really sorry for those that are now going to lose out on a chance to perform on the biggest stage in their home country.

Of course, I hope Liza won’t be one of the ones that misses out, but unless she does well at Europeans and Worlds this year, it looks like she will.

These mistakes in choosing who to send to 1 championship are now having a major impact on the careers of some of the best skaters Russia has had for years. And it is not fair on them.

But, as Sasha'sSpins has just pointed out, not going to the Olympics doesn't mean their career is over. They can still have a successful career, but just on different stages.

CaroLiza_fan

Li'Kitsu · Nov 25, 2013

CaroLiza_fan said:
Now it looks as if the only Olympics Liza will compete at in her career is the 2012 Youth Olympics.

Why, oh why, did Russia have to have such a disappointing Worlds last season?!

Oh come on, she's young enough to have shoot at even 2022. 2014 won't be the last Olympics!

And while russia has dozens of talented young girls these days, I don't think any of them match Liza's jumping technique.
And I'd still say Adelina and Liza did okay for they're first worlds. It was a really strong event compared to 2011 and 2012, and it was their debut. It was a shame it had to be the pre-olympic worlds, because the russian girls might get 3 spots back this year already.

coppertop1 · Nov 25, 2013

Li'Kitsu said:
Oh come on, she's young enough to have shoot at even 2022. 2014 won't be the last Olympics! And while russia has dozens of talented young girls these days, I don't think any of them match Liza's jumping technique.
And I'd still say Adelina and Liza did okay for they're first worlds. It was a really strong event compared to 2011 and 2012, and it was their debut. It was a shame it had to be the pre-olympic worlds, because the russian girls might get 3 spots back this year already.

It really bugs me when people start expecting big results from new skaters NOW. There aren't too many skaters who arrive and do big things immediately, not even Michelle Kwan. It wasn't until her third year of international competition she became a force. Adelina and Liza were ninth and tenth respectively, that's pretty good. If any of the Russians were disappointing, it was Leonova who fell to thirteenth from silver in 2012 and fourth in 2011. Liza may not make these Olympics, but she could definitely make in in 2018. After all, it remains to be seen if Lipnitskaia, and Radionova and the other Russian youngsters retain their consistency post-puberty.

Skater Boy · Nov 25, 2013

CaroLiza_fan said:
Even before we found out that Russia would only have 1 spot in the Men's category, it was very unlikely that Gachinski would get in the Olympic team. Plushy, Menshov and Voronov were always going to be ahead of him in the list of potential choices, and now Kovtun has shown that he is a genuine candidate as well.

As for the ladies, much as I love Liza, I do agree with you that Adelina and Julia are now the obvious choices. Of all the Russian ladies that are serious contenders for the spot, Julia is the most consistent at the moment. And she has the best programmes. So, she should definitely get on the team.

As for Anna, I think she would do well in Olympics/Worlds (probably top 10), but I don't think she is ready yet to challenge for a top 6 place. Plus, I think it would be too much of a risk to choose the 2 youngest girls.

So, it's a toss up between Adelina and Liza. Both can be inconsistent, but at the moment, Adelina is the least inconsistent. So, if I had the final say, I would choose Adelina.

So, what options are open to Artur and Liza?

Well, the only option that I can see open to them is leaving Mishin. But, even if they change coach, it doesn't guarantee that they will get into the team for Worlds (or Europeans) over the next few years, or into the team sent to the Pyeongchang Olympics.

And, as far as I know, there are no obvious alternative nationality options open to either of them.

However, there is one more option, but it's only open to Liza:

Marry me, and get British citizenship!

Then, when Jenna retires, you would be guaranteed the spot, as you would be in a totally different league to all the opposition!!!

And, if the British Federation is mad enough to turn you down, then you can try the Irish Federation (one of the perks of being from Northern Ireland is that I have dual nationality!)

Problem solved!

CaroLiza_fan

I think Liza is actually heads and tails above Jenna right now who really seems a bit "worn" and tired looking. Talk about regression Jenna has been going no where for a while now.

Sasha'sSpins · Nov 25, 2013

Liza is an Olympic Champion - an Olympic Youth Champion. If that was her only shot at an Olympics well at least she won there and can be proud of that! Many never get a chance at even going beyond Club level. It's all perspective.

karne · Nov 25, 2013

I think some people are forgetting. Artur is only 20 years old. He is YOUNGER than Max Aaron! He willbe 24 by 2018, which is plenty young enough for an Olympics!

coppertop1 · Nov 25, 2013

karne said:
I think some people are forgetting. Artur is only 20 years old. He is YOUNGER than Max Aaron! He will be 24 by 2018, which is plenty young enough for an Olympics!

Point, unlike the women, men don't start peaking in their teens. He's in a down phase but it may not mean it's over.

Time for Tuktamysheva and Gachinski to change coaches and country?

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