Ladies SP - 2013-14 Grand Prix Final

CarneAsada · Dec 5, 2013

I don't see why everyone is complaining about Amano. Try to think of it as "tough love" - he's telling her to rotate more so the other callers won't downgrade her at the important competitions! That's why he gave Wagner a pass on her triple triple - because he doesn't secretly love her and doesn't feel the need to be tough.

tulosai said:
Honestly, I was never a fan of Sotnikova (though I didn't dislike her either) but more and more I find myself being/becoming a fan, and I really do have to thank skyfly_20 for that in part All that nastiness toward her made me want to root for her.

LOL I had the exact same reason.

miki88 · Dec 5, 2013

CarneAsada said:
I don't see why everyone is complaining about Amano. Try to think of it as "tough love" - he's telling her to rotate more so the other callers won't downgrade her at the important competitions! That's why he gave Wagner a pass on her triple triple - because he doesn't secretly love her and doesn't feel the need to be tough.

Lol. Does that mean he won't be at the Olympics?

I also feel it's interesting Mao and Julia (two top contenders coming to the final) have been most affected by the 'strict' callers. Perhaps, it's the case that Ashley isn't seen as much of a threat, at least compared to the other two.

koatcue · Dec 5, 2013

I hope for a good lp in Julia's case so that she won't miss the podium:yes: I think both Mao and Julia were underscored

David21 · Dec 5, 2013

Mirunna said:
The judging here has been really good except that stupid and yet expected (from Amano) "<" on Mao's 3A. It's absurd that for her best 3A this season she doesn't get credit but she did for other attempts who were not near as good as this one. 72 for one of the best SP must shut down the critics complaining that Mao is overscored in Japan. She was actually underscored here.

She wasn't underscored. She was again overscored by the judges who thought that underrotated 3A was worth GOE 0 or GOE +1. The jump which you said "didn't get credit" got Mao 5.57 points which is still too much.

The problem was that Mao was overscored at NHK and her jumps weren't called as UR'ed so people are now confused how that 'pretty' triple axel from today could have been downgraded even though it was obviously underrotated as well.

ETA: Mao's flip and double loop were clearly cheated as well. What a joke :laugh:

CarneAsada · Dec 5, 2013

miki88 said:
Lol. Does that mean he won't be at the Olympics? I also feel it's interesting Mao and Julia (two top contenders coming to the final) have been most affected by the 'strict' callers. Perhaps, it's the case that Ashley isn't seen as much of a threat, at least compared to the other two.

Don't get me wrong, I thought 2/3 of his < calls for Asada from for example 2008 Japanese Nationals and 2010 Worlds were utterly ridiculous, but did they affect the final result? No, not really. This is Japan, and Asada is good enough to get a sizeable PCS advantage. As long as she does her LP reasonably well, she'll win, and if she doesn't do it well, I don't really want to see her winning anyway.

David21 said:
She wasn't underscored. She was again overscored by the judges who thought that underrotated 3A was worth GOE 0 or GOE +1. The jump which you said "didn't get credit" got Mao 5.57 points which is still too much.

The problem was that Mao was overscored at NHK and her jumps weren't called as UR'ed so people are now confused how that 'pretty' triple axel from today could have been downgraded even though it was obviously underrotated as well.

ETA: Mao's flip and double loop were clearly cheated as well. What a joke

The rules clearly state that it only merits a < if the jump is underrotated by over 90 degrees. If you think her flip and double loop merited a < you need to get your eyes checked.

FlattFan · Dec 5, 2013

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rrC93Oe2QE#t=266

Adelina's 3F entrance is so crazy, I wonder how she lands them most of the time. Look at the edge rocking back and forth right before taking off. How did this jump get more than +1 GOE is beyond me. It's not a textbook jump.

CarneAsada · Dec 5, 2013

FlattFan said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rrC93Oe2QE#t=266

Adelina's 3F entrance is so crazy, I wonder how she lands them most of the time. Look at the edge rocking back and forth right before taking off. How did this jump get more than +1 GOE is beyond me. It's not a textbook jump.

It has great height and flow out. If Mao's 2010 flip and Sasha's flip could get +GOE, this one certainly should too.

That said, I hope Adelina doesn't play it safe all season. If she is chosen for the Olympic team, I hope she goes all out and attempts the 3fLutz-3Loop. Otherwise it's just another program with a boring 3T-3T.

David21 · Dec 5, 2013

CarneAsada said:
The rules clearly state that it only merits a < if the jump is underrotated by over 90 degrees. If you think her flip and double loop merited a < you need to get your eyes checked.

And where did I say that the jumps deserved a <?
In any case, those jumps didn't deserve all those GOE +1 and +2s but when did the judges ever care about underrotation :rolleye:

miki88 · Dec 5, 2013

I just can't take posters seriously when they just flat out call a skater's jumps underrotated when they are well within the 1/4 range.

Li'Kitsu · Dec 5, 2013

David21 said:
The jump which you said "didn't get credit" got Mao 5.57 points which is still too much.

Lol. Even if more than 90 degree short, that jump is still harder to complete than any other triple. And she got less for it than a clean 3Lz or 3F/3Lo with good +GOE. That is hardly too much.

elif · Dec 5, 2013

CarneAsada said:
That said, I hope Adelina doesn't play it safe all season. If she is chosen for the Olympic team, I hope she goes all out and attempts the 3fLutz-3Loop. Otherwise it's just another program with a boring 3T-3T.

No. She can't get that many points with 3lutz+3loop. She is not going to get any GOE with ''e'' and going to lose some base value because of ''<''. She should try some steps before the combination so judges can rise her GOE to +3.

miki88 · Dec 5, 2013

David21 said:
And where did I say that the jumps deserved a <?
In any case, those jumps didn't deserve all those GOE +1 and +2s but when did the judges ever care about underrotation

Lol you said they were "clearly underrotated" If they didn't deserve <, then it wasn't that clear imo. They obviously know more than you and judge better.

CarneAsada · Dec 5, 2013

elif said:
No. She can't get that many points with 3lutz+3loop. She is not going to get any GOE with ''e'' and going to lose some base value because of ''<''. She should try some steps before the combination so judges can rise her GOE to +3.

She will get more points than she would with even a +3 3Toe-3Toe if she rotates the 3Lutz-3Loop and doesn't get worse than -0.9 (around -1.3 or 1.4) GOE. Which she shouldn't, if she rotates and has a nice landing. Even if it's riskier, it's the Olympic season, go big or go home. I doubt she'd ever be getting straight +3s for that 3T-3T combination anyway when Yuna Kim with a far superior 3-3 can't even get it all the time.

David21 · Dec 5, 2013

miki88 said:
I just can't take posters seriously when they just flat out call a skater's jumps underrotated when they are well within the 1/4 range.

Err...a jump that lacks 1/8 rotation is already underrotated. Look into the rule book, there you can read that judges should deduct for underroated jumps even when they weren't called as ur'ed i.e. that they were within the 1/4 range. Mao's jumps *arguably* were within the range but they were still underrotated and should have gotten a deduction.

Li'Kitsu said:
Lol. Even if more than 90 degree short, that jump is still harder to complete than any other triple. And she got less for it than a clean 3Lz or 3F/3Lo with good +GOE. That is hardly too much.

I'm all for rewarding skaters for doing hard jumps...when those jumps are actually clean, i.e. landed on one foot and not underotated. An underotated <3A should not get a skater more points than a clean, well-done double axel IMO and that was clearly not the case here. Asada got about one more point for her ur'ed triple axel than Sotnikova got for her very good double axel.

yuki · Dec 5, 2013

David21 said:
I'm all for rewarding skaters for doing hard jumps...when those jumps are actually clean, i.e. landed on one foot and not underotated. An underotated <3A should not get a skater more points than a clean, well-done double axel IMO and that was clearly not the case here. Asada got about one more point for her ur'ed triple axel than Sotnikova got for her very good double axel.

So I guess that a slightly underrotated 3A is easier than any other triple (even a 3T), because according to you it should score lower than one. Yes, that sounds totally reasonable :sarcasm:.

David21 · Dec 5, 2013

yuki said:
So I guess that a slightly underrotated 3A is easier than any other triple (even a 3T), because according to you it should score lower than one. Yes, that sounds totally reasonable :sarcasm:.

A <3A is not slightly underrotated.

yuki · Dec 5, 2013

David21 said:
A <3A is not slightly underrotated.

Did you actually watch the program or just read the protocols and called it a day?

elif · Dec 5, 2013

CarneAsada said:
She will get more points than she would with even a +3 3Toe-3Toe if she rotates the 3Lutz-3Loop and doesn't get worse than -0.9 (around -1.3 or 1.4) GOE. Which she shouldn't, if she rotates and has a nice landing. Even if it's riskier, it's the Olympic season, go big or go home. I doubt she'd ever be getting straight +3s for that 3T-3T combination anyway when Yuna Kim with a far superior 3-3 can't even get it all the time.

This is the problem. She can't rotate that 3Lo. Almost all 3Lo combos are getting underotation sign unlike 3T. Maybe she can try 3F+3T or 3Lo+3T. Looks like Wagner's cheated combos are safe so maybe Adelina can try that also. But no 3Lo combo please.

David21 · Dec 5, 2013

yuki said:
Did you actually watch the program or just read the protocols and called it a day?

I watched all of Mao's jumps in slo-mo.

CarneAsada · Dec 5, 2013

elif said:
This is the problem. She can't rotate that 3Lo. Almost all 3Lo combos are getting underotation sign unlike 3T. Maybe she can try 3F+3T or 3Lo+3T. Looks like Wagner's cheated combos are safe so maybe Adelina can try that also. But no 3Lo combo please.

But that would be too... smart. If there's one thing about a skater that makes me a fan, it's when sky_fly and gmyers are calling said skater "headcase" and "stupid." I have said before that I'm a fan of self-sabotage through program design and doing more difficult elements even if they aren't well rewarded. And going for the 3Lutz-3Loop satisfies all these criteria. :laugh:

Ladies SP - 2013-14 Grand Prix Final

CarneAsada

miki88

koatcue

David21

CarneAsada

FlattFan

Match Penalty

CarneAsada

David21

miki88

Li'Kitsu

elif

miki88

CarneAsada

David21

yuki

David21

yuki

elif

David21

CarneAsada

Similar threads

Connect with us