Ice Dance FD - 2013-14 Grand Prix Final | Page 8 | Golden Skate

Ice Dance FD - 2013-14 Grand Prix Final

blackswanphoto

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 16, 2005
I totally agree. V/M are ice dancing whereas D/W perform like race horses. There is no comparison.

Race horses that ran all over the ice dancers corpse... when will your fave get a world record without having it broken four minutes later.. Have your fave ever even won a GPF.. I have never seen reigning Olympic champions get beaten so badly and so often.. Its embarrassing.. Gritchuk would never allow this to happen.
 

penguin

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 31, 2012
I loved both V/M and D/W's free dances, they were both performed excellently. I agree that V/M have the superior skills in terms of edging, extension, and close dance holds, and that those are hallmarks of classic ice dance. However, I think that's only part of what ice dance today has evolved into being, which includes lifts, power, speed, and the athletics that D/W are superior in. Like it or not, that's the name of the game, just as quads are now a huge factor in men's skating. D/W have such creative choreography and a real wow factor, and they totally deserved their win.
 

sweetskates1

Medalist
Joined
Feb 5, 2012
D/W are superior and deserved their gold medal. However, this event confirms that V/M are the favorites for gold at the Sochi Olympics. Fans need to accept this, D/W are still the chasers. Their forte - speed and incredibly difficult technical content is under appreciated. Base values are always the same for both teams on paper and despite a slightly higher (lol) PCS, D/W do so much more so much more quickly. V/M are the favorites still and it pains me to say this, but their technique can and will improve exponentially from the beginning of the season while D/W have very little left to perfect. They are always almost done learning to execute and skate at the beginning of the season.

I loved both V/M and D/W's free dances, they were both performed excellently. I agree that V/M have the superior skills in terms of edging, extension, and close dance holds, and that those are hallmarks of classic ice dance. However, I think that's only part of what ice dance today has evolved into being, which includes lifts, power, speed, and the athletics that D/W are superior in. Like it or not, that's the name of the game, just as quads are now a huge factor in men's skating. D/W have such creative choreography and a real wow factor, and they totally deserved their win.
 

blackswanphoto

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 16, 2005
Watching the competition again I have to say i really feel Virtue & Moir deserved to win this one (although I am trying to be objective I am probably a bit partial as I really wanted to see V&M win their final ever Grand Prix final, and I am a big fan of theirs despite Scott's attitude). Davis & White skated well but were definitely not at their best and most exciting and I think V&M had mostly superior elements and performance level today. Dissapointing result.

Weaver & Poje were badly hosed. Ridiculous to be scored so much lower than P&B and behind B&S with a fall again. The most undermarked dance team in history possibly.

They didn't deserve anything but exactly what they got... Another BEATDOWN! D/W own them and can run right through them whenever and however they choose. The judges were just trolling us, keeping the scores close to cause drama, knowing damn well it was just another lashing in the making. Can't wait until the Olympics so D/W can snatch that gold medal from around their neck that was stolen from them by the Nationalists in Vancouver. And send them packing, along with their delusional fans.
 

sweetskates1

Medalist
Joined
Feb 5, 2012
W/P = style not as much substance. Their twizzles and lifts are not up to par with other contenders'.

Watching the competition again I have to say i really feel Virtue & Moir deserved to win this one (although I am trying to be objective I am probably a bit partial as I really wanted to see V&M win their final ever Grand Prix final, and I am a big fan of theirs despite Scott's attitude). Davis & White skated well but were definitely not at their best and most exciting and I think V&M had mostly superior elements and performance level today. Dissapointing result.

Weaver & Poje were badly hosed. Ridiculous to be scored so much lower than P&B and behind B&S with a fall again. The most undermarked dance team in history possibly.
 

blackswanphoto

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 16, 2005
W/P = style not as much substance. Their twizzles and lifts are not up to par with other contenders'.

Most around here seem to be deluded by the home cooking of Skate Canada... Poje is a big babe.. when he is on it looks very good because he is so tall...... But when big babe skating goes wrong, it really goes wrong and it looks that much more awkward because of his height. Same thing with the other hot, big babe Nationalist Eric Radford...
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Race horses that ran all over the ice dancers corpse... when will your fave get a world record without having it broken four minutes later.. Have your fave ever even won a GPF.. I have never seen reigning Olympic champions get beaten so badly and so often.. Its embarrassing.. Gritchuk would never allow this to happen.

Like 90% of Olympic champions stop competing after their winning season. Of course Alexei Urmanov will always be the standard for Olympic champions that could be beaten by 3 skaters at worlds! 3! 3 skaters always beat Urmanov. Unfortunately for him.

They didn't deserve anything but exactly what they got... Another BEATDOWN! D/W own them and can run right through them whenever and however they choose. The judges were just trolling us, keeping the scores close to cause drama, knowing damn well it was just another lashing in the making. Can't wait until the Olympics so D/W can snatch that gold medal from around their neck that was stolen from them by the Nationalists in Vancouver. And send them packing, along with their delusional fans.

And the American nationalists in Canada gave DW the world title in 2013? LOL.
 

blackswanphoto

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 16, 2005
Like 90% of Olympic champions stop competing after their winning season. Of course Alexei Urmanov will always be the standard for Olympic champions that could be beaten by 3 skaters at worlds! 3! 3 skaters always beat Urmanov. Unfortunately for him.



And the American nationalists in Canada gave DW the world title in 2013? LOL.

Nope they TOOK it from them! The Nationalist did give V/M the World title in France in 2012 though.. That's a pretty well known fact. We all know France as one of the locales with officials for sale. The only valid, legit victory the Nationalists had over D/W over the last 4 years was 2012 Four Continents.

Everyone should watch the medal ceremony with Tessa Twizzle giving Meryl the evil-eye.. Girl need to go sit down somewhere. They really did try to have a go at the Queen during this competition, knowing good and well their usual m.o. is to fall out a twizzle or botch a lift.
 

rosacotton

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 2, 2012
C/L - charming performance, but I feel the program needs a just a little more of something to make it great.
W/P - I continue to like this program, but they've preformed it better.
B/S - their free dance feels like two steps back from last season. I felt sorry for them when they expressed their disappointment as soon as the skate was over.
P/B - best performance of the free yet, and I now am a fan of it. Their medal here rises a fool's hope in me that they may contend at the Olympics despite my gut feeling that the Olympic bronze is reserved for either of the Russian teams.
V/M - this program is now starting to gel. Lovely performance. They are the Fred Astaire of ice dance.
D/W - another strong outing. Yet still room for improvement! I see them as ice dance's Gene Kelly. In my mind they and V/M are the co-favorites for the OGM.
 

WeakAnkles

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
For the last few years, the same thing happens on this board regarding the Voir/Marlie rivalry: the ubers come out, each rah rahing their team and putting down the other, and it always, always comes down to which team hits their levels and makes the fewer mistakes. I'm not sure why anyone thinks the Olympics (and possibly Worlds) are going to be any different this time around. Which is why it is a great rivalry. Look at the point differentials for each segment:

.07 in the Short Dance
1.28 in the Free Dance

The suspense is killing me. I hope it will last...
:)
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009

Why are people assuming that it's him? Just because he's American? We don't know who gave what score (to all our chagrin), so I don't think it's fair to accuse him.

Shawn Rettsatt has been judging for years. If he was scoring people to undermine competitors, certainly he would have had a talking to by now.

There's also a judge or two that is outside the corridor and they may have a valid argument with how they ended up there. In the end that person's score doesn't matter because they are thrown out in the final calculations.

ETA: If there's some history of him scoring V/M low in past events, then perhaps there's validity in the assumption, however please point that out rather than throwing generalities.

ETA2: Okay, apparently there was a judge at the 2011 4CC that gave V/M 5s in PCS and it happened to be that Shawn Rettsatt was on the judging panel. However correlation=/=causation. Unless it's been publicly declared somehow, there is no way to prove he was the judge in question in either situation. It's speculation at best. http://www.isuresults.com/results/fc2011/fc2011_IceDance_SD_Scores.pdf

Oh by the way Jodi Abbott, the judge from Canada was also on the panel for both events. Perhaps she did it to ensure her favorite Canadian team (W/P) had scores closer to V/M. :laugh:

But in the end, again, it doesn't matter because the scores were thrown out.
 

Matt K

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 3, 2013

Why are people assuming that it's him? Just because he's American? We don't know who gave what score (to all our chagrin), so I don't think it's fair to accuse him.

Shawn Rettsatt has been judging for years. If he was scoring people to undermine competitors, certainly he would have had a talking to by now.



ETA: If there's some history of him scoring V/M low in past events, then perhaps there's validity in the assumption, however please point that out rather than throwing generalities.

ETA2: Okay, apparently there was a judge at the 2011 4CC that gave V/M 5s in PCS and it happened to be that Shawn Rettsatt was on the judging panel. However correlation=/=causation. Unless it's been publicly declared somehow, there is no way to prove he was the judge in question in either situation. It's speculation at best. http://www.isuresults.com/results/fc2011/fc2011_IceDance_SD_Scores.pdf

Since you asked I'll take you up on your offer. I researched the events that SHAWN RETTSTATT (USA) has judged V/M in from all the events from last year and this year. And in these events that Shawn Rettstatt was judging V/M, there is always one judge's set of marks for V/M that are significantly lower than the rest ;). Most interesting is at Worlds 2013 SD (where he sat on the panel and V/M got lowballed by one judge) vs the FD (in which he did not sit on the panel and V/M's marks rose again). I'll get to this near the end of the post.

CoR 2012: http://www.isuresults.com/results/gprus2012/
V/M judge #5 SD: http://www.isuresults.com/results/gprus2012/gprus2012_IceDance_SD_Scores.pdf
V/M judge #2 FD: http://www.isuresults.com/results/gprus2012/gprus2012_IceDance_FD_Scores.pdf

GPF 2012: http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpf1213/
V/M judge #1 SD: http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpf1213/gpf1213_IceDance_SD_Scores.pdf
V/M judge # 5 FD: http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpf1213/gpf1213_IceDance_FD_Scores.pdf

GPF 2013: http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpf1314/
V/M judge #7 SD: http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpf1314/gpf1314_IceDance_SD_Scores.pdf
V/M judge #1 FD: http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpf1314/gpf1314_IceDance_FD_Scores.pdf

Worlds 2013, SD: http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2013
V/M judge #1 SD: http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2013/wc2013_IceDance_SD_Scores.pdf

In the FD, unlike the SD, SHAWN RETTSTATT (USA) was not drawn to judge on the FD panel. And surprise, surprise. In that segment, V/M didn't get lowballed by a single judge. In fact every single one of them gave them at least a 10.00 somewhere in PCS and all marks across the FD panel were consistently in the mid to high 9s - 10s: http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2013/wc2013_IceDance_FD_Scores.pdf

I think it's hilarious whichever judge gave V/M 5s in all PCS marks at 2011 4CC, though. :laugh: Shawn Rettstatt or not, seeing those numbers on paper is pretty funny :laugh: You'd think that she or he would know better and might actually be asked to provide some explanation in the roundtable discussions.

You mentioned that "But in the end, again, it doesn't matter because the scores were thrown out". But when marks are so close between V/M and D/W, it does make a difference. At this particular GPF in Japan this one judge's marks for V/M were glaringly obvious in both SD and FD (8s?) that I hope is looked into.

I think someone posted here that Shawn Rettstatt will be the US Olympic ice dance judge in Sochi. Oh Goody. When that time comes I'll keep my eyes peeled for a set of marks given to V/M that rivals that of Chock/Bates :laugh:
 

Mao88

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
FREE DANCE - VIDEOS (By Starting Order) - Updated

1. Anna CAPPELLINI / Luca LANOTTE (ITA) Free Dance, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy

2. Nathalie PECHALAT / Fabian BOURZAT (FRA) Free Dance, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy

3. Kaitlyn WEAVER / Andrew POJE (CAN) Free Dance, 2nd copy, 3rd Copy

4. Ekaterina BOBROVA / Dmitri SOLOVIEV (RUS) Free Dance, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy

5. Tessa VIRTUE / Scott MOIR (CAN) Free Dance, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy

6. Meryl DAVIS / Charlie WHITE (USA) Free Dance, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy

Complete Free Dance, Medal Ceremony

RESULT

Overall Result, Segment Result, Protocols
 

auser

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
FREE DANCE - VIDEOS (By Starting Order)

1. Anna CAPPELLINI / Luca LANOTTE (ITA) Free Dance, 2nd Copy

2. Nathalie PECHALAT / Fabian BOURZAT (FRA) Free Dance, 2nd Copy

3. Kaitlyn WEAVER / Andrew POJE (CAN) Free Dance, 2nd copy

4. Ekaterina BOBROVA / Dmitri SOLOVIEV (RUS) Free Dance, 2nd Copy

5. Tessa VIRTUE / Scott MOIR (CAN) Free Dance, 2nd Copy

6. Meryl DAVIS / Charlie WHITE (USA) Free Dance, 2nd Copy

Complete Free Dance, Medal Ceremony

RESULT

Overall Result, Segment Result, Protocols

Mao88, Master skating archivist supreme :bow:, thank you so much for this
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
If Chock & Bates get 8.75 in any PCS component, I'll be thrilled.

It's hard to believe any judge got away without a reprimand giving V&M 5's in any PCS component...that is just so not right.
 

Scrufflet

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 1, 2010
C/L - charming performance, but I feel the program needs a just a little more of something to make it great.
W/P - I continue to like this program, but they've preformed it better.
B/S - their free dance feels like two steps back from last season. I felt sorry for them when they expressed their disappointment as soon as the skate was over.
P/B - best performance of the free yet, and I now am a fan of it. Their medal here rises a fool's hope in me that they may contend at the Olympics despite my gut feeling that the Olympic bronze is reserved for either of the Russian teams.
V/M - this program is now starting to gel. Lovely performance. They are the Fred Astaire of ice dance.
D/W - another strong outing. Yet still room for improvement! I see them as ice dance's Gene Kelly. In my mind they and V/M are the co-favorites for the OGM.
Oh Rosacotton! I thought I was the only one thinking the Astaire/Kelly comparison! So true!
 

sisinka

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Cappellini & Lanotte – nice program, nice to watch, but Anna with her straight legs, not using her knees at all, no deep edges in skating, only 28 second in close dance position, 57 seconds without touching each other, program itself on the level of I&K FD, but with worse skating skills. I am not surprised with the last position.

Weaver & Poje – in my opinion the best “dancing” choreography this year. Kaitlyn attacked sharpness and passion again (it was better than at COR). Andrew was not sharp this time and he was shaky during turns in both step sequences, Kaitlyn struggled in turns in diagonal step sequence also. Kaitlyn and Andrew are not so good technicians (not yet), that is why they are rather slow (with crossovers or simple parts between elements their skating would be fast of course, but I like that Krylova & Camerlengo are pushing them to that choreography to make a better dancers from these two, the team who can challenge top teams and even fight for Olympic/World bronze medal with content which deserves such medal). It is also obvious that Andrew’s free leg is not tightened especially in step sequences, he should work on it. But overall this dance is great, I like watching it. I am looking forward to see this dance at next competition. I guess it will be one of the highlights at the Olympics and Worlds.

Bobrova & Soloviev – while at the beginning of the the season it was more running during first half of the program, right now they start to fly across the ice. Bird story is more and more readable, white sleeves (in a colour of ice) are hinding great work of arms by Ekaterina watching it from big distance or in worse quality video. Stupid mistake in simple skating from Ekaterina which caused Dmitri’s fall is a good example that skaters have to concentrate for the whole program, not only during the most difficult parts. The mistake came after that soo fast part of the program in place when nobody expected a problem…..and it cost them bronze medal. The rest of the elements were clean but general impression was deleted a little bit.

Pechalat & Bourzat – improvement in speed in last part of the dance. I love all those details they are doing with head, arms even with toes. They had great unison also (they missed it in short dance). I like their Chaplin and Circus more that this dance, but their free dance was a highlight this time. I keep saying that Shpilband doesn’t fit them as coach, they lost technique and speed with him a little bit. If they really finish skating after this season I will miss them a lot. They are great dancers especially Natalie.
This is one of the couple who never achieved the biggest possible placements, but people will always remember them and even 10 years later skating fans will be looking for their dances at Youtube channel, I am sure of it.

Virtue & Moir – I don’t think that idea of doing Mahler number 2 was the best idea. But once it was done and they are skating to it…it is beautiful, not the program itself but their skating and dancing. I watched every free program more than once and after every program I sat a while and let the feelings from the program fly across my head….and Tessa and Scott’s program made the best impression, it was the strongest experience for me. They still have beautiful and deep edges, difficult program, they skate so close to each other (yes, they could have more close position which would make their dance even more difficult).

Davis & White – while Kaitlyn has the best “dancing” choreography, Marina Zueva created for their kids the choreography with the biggest imagination, sometimes it reminds me a fairy tale. I don’t find program itself too difficult looking at dancing qualities because of many and many running steps from both of them, because of little jumps from Meryl (it doesn’t press them to do edges work, which shows the quality of every dancer the most… everybody knows to do running steps, but only the best skaters have deep edges and can use it with grace), time they spend in close dancing holds under 30 seconds. Meryl improved her arm movements since last year, it looks lovely.

What I also like about top 5 teams here (which I also find top 5 world teams at the moment) is the fact that there is still something happening, there are no empty places in their programs, you can’t even close your eyes for one second without missing some element or some interesting moment. Every music needs to be expressed on 100 percent. The better music music you pick especially classical music, the more difficulty it takes to express it well. First 5 teams did it and I liked it.
 

Apple Pi

Rinkside
Joined
Sep 12, 2010
I have heard that the judge who gave V/M PCS in the 5s was not a North American judge and thought that the PCS marks were out of 6.0, like the old system.

Sounds crazy but V/M skated very early on the skate order, so the judge likely realized their huge mistake afterwards.
 

Matt K

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 3, 2013
I have heard that the judge who gave V/M PCS in the 5s was not a North American judge and thought that the PCS marks were out of 6.0, like the old system.

Sounds crazy but V/M skated very early on the skate order, so the judge likely realized their huge mistake afterwards.

:confused:
None of the other teams from 2nd to 6th place got anything lower than 6 on PCS.

Whether the judge was a North American or not I don't know. But he or she clearly wasn't thinking 6.0 system when they punched in marks of 7, 8s, or 9s for D/W and W/P :laugh:
 
Top