Is Romeo and Juliet working for Ashley? | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Is Romeo and Juliet working for Ashley?

noskates

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
Again, I think the problem is, for whatever reason, Ashley does not connect with this music. I don't think all musical pieces need to be interpreted as if the skater was portraying the principal in the story - but they do need to interpret the music. That ain't happening here. She either doesn't get it or doesn't know how to feel what she's skating to. She's merely going from one spin or jump or piece of footwork to the next one - as is she's ticking them off in her head!

I hate to say it, but she's going to need alot of help from other skaters if she's to be on the Olympic podium.

eta: I don't think the term "butch" is appropriate for Ashley! I agree that "not lyrical" is a much better choice with no implications.
 

Sasha'sSpins

Medalist
Joined
Apr 2, 2009
Country
United-States
To put it bluntly (since others have with Hanyu), Ashley is too "butch":eek: (note quotation marks) for R&J. She is a lovely young woman, but she is having to play against type with Juliet and is not skilled enough to do it.

This is scarily going into politically incorrect territory :slink: but in my neck of the woods a 'butch' woman is usually rather 'masculine' (haircut, clothes, even the way she walks/carries herself), and often tends to be a lesbian. Not that there is anything wrong with that but Ashley doesn't come off as 'butch' in that sense of the word at all. She just comes off as not ice-princessy or girlie-girl but a tough, strong young woman. I thought "Black Swan" was fabulous for her and that is generally a balletic piece. I loved her "Red Violin" persona too.

I do agree with those who say that R&J is all wrong for Ashley. She just does not come off as a 'Juliet' in any sense of the word imo. She's tried hard but it's just not happening. I thought I'd love her program by now but it's just left me cold unfortunately. It doesn't feel genuine or authentic on her.
 

Sochi_2014

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 4, 2013
There is nothing wrong with the program. I agree with many others that it is not her best, but that doesn't mean anything is wrong with it. Even without being completely clean (step out on the second 3flip and two footed on the 3-3) at Trophee Eric Bompard she scored 127.62. If the program is skated cleanly, she is looking at a score over 133, which is great. Currently, with her SB score, she is less than 4 points behind the 2nd highest FS score this season (Julia).http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/sb2013-14/sbtslfs.htm Throw Yuna into the mix, and I'd say Ashley has a good shot at bronze.

The judges like her LP. Even with the mistakes, she's scoring well with it. There is no guarantee that she will skate clean in Sochi, but if she does have 2 clean skates, she's in great contention for a medal.

Although I did love her Black Swan and Samson & Delilah, I think it is best that she doesn't go back to old programs. I think it is important for skaters to branch out and try new things. It's a trial and error process. However, next season (if she stays in the game), l'd like to see her skate to something a little more upbeat (not so somber). Not funny music though, God do I hate funny music. She'd be very suited to skate to something unique, like a Cirque du Soleil medley. Imagine her skating to Allegria, it would be perfect for her natural style, and she would be able to smile :) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy0RUCjRZzo. Obviously it's repetitive, but mixed in with another Cirque song, it could be great. Maybe mixed in with this, to slow it down: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6tE6laWTEc

One thing for sure though, is I like her first dress better than the new one. It was better suited for her body type, and made her look more elegant out there. Maybe just a different color, like an off white, or even a lavender color.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
There is nothing wrong with the program. I agree with many others that it is not her best, but that doesn't mean anything is wrong with it.

If something isn't your best, then there is inherently something wrong with it. I understand what you're saying, but I can't even agree with "it's a good enough effort, even though it's not her best". Ashley's current LP lacks cohesion and interest. It's in the bottom 3 of all the LP's she has done since 2007, IMO.

The judges like her LP. Even with the mistakes, she's scoring well with it.

How is she scoring well with it? She was beaten by Joannie Rochette, a retired skater, at Japan Open. She has been beaten in the LP in every competition she has entered this season. She should be scoring 70 in PCS. The highest she has received so far was 66 at Skate America, which had home ice inflation.

Currently, with her SB score, she is less than 4 points behind the 2nd highest FS score this season (Julia)

If Julia skates in Sochi like she did at Skate Canada, she's going to score around 7 points higher. Wagner doesn't really have a higher potential currently; the big problem with the program is it doesn't go anywhere. It's not the kind of program where you can even say "just wait until she does it perfectly, it will all come together." There is no special mood or choreographic idea being presented by the whole program. Even if she skates absolutely clean, people aren't going to be moved or incredibly excited by it. There's just not enough build and well-matched movement.
 

Sochi_2014

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 4, 2013
How is she scoring well with it? She was beaten by Joannie Rochette, a retired skater, at Japan Open. She has been beaten in the LP in every competition she has entered this season. She should be scoring 70 in PCS. The highest she has received so far was 66 at Skate America, which had home ice inflation.

All else set aside, Wagner did make it to the GPF and placed third, even with a few mistakes. So, I wouldn't say her season has been unsuccessful and that she has been scored badly. :p She's done very well for herself in an Olympic year, despite the fact that her LP isn't the best for her. And yes, having the 6th best LP score of the season is successful, especially since she's just about 2 points behind the 3rd highest scoring LP this season (Adelina). It's all about strategy. Sometimes peaking too early can be dangerous. A la Alissa Czisny in 2005/2006.

Although, I do agree with you Blades of Passion, that if Julia skates cleanly again, she will have higher points than at Skate Canada, I didn't take that into account.

I guess we will all see come Nationals and Sochi, if she can spruce up the program. Only time will tell!
 

Icey

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
This is scarily going into politically incorrect territory :slink: but in my neck of the woods a 'butch' woman is usually rather 'masculine' (haircut, clothes, even the way she walks/carries herself), and often tends to be a lesbian. Not that there is anything wrong with that but Ashley doesn't come off as 'butch' in that sense of the word at all. She just comes off as not ice-princessy or girlie-girl but a tough, strong young woman. I thought "Black Swan" was fabulous for her and that is generally a balletic piece. I loved her "Red Violin" persona too.

I do agree with those who say that R&J is all wrong for Ashley. She just does not come off as a 'Juliet' in any sense of the word imo. She's tried hard but it's just not happening. I thought I'd love her program by now but it's just left me cold unfortunately. It doesn't feel genuine or authentic on her.

I wasn't using the word in your sense. That is why I put it in quotation marks and even noted that I had done so. I can see Ashley skating Joan of Arc or something similar. If the music she is using wasn't associated with R&J, maybe she would be ok. But even with that, I am hard pressed to know what it is she is interpreting. Doesn't seem to be Juliet or the music. I think the comments of Tara and Johnny are ominous. I hope her team heard them.
 

skateluvr

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
To put it bluntly (since others have with Hanyu), Ashley is too "butch":eek: (note quotation marks) for R&J. She is a lovely young woman, but she is having to play against type with Juliet and is not skilled enough to do it.

Oh, wow, what a word to describe her. She is as feminine as most skaters out there. She is not skinny skinny but tv puts on weight. She has a beautiful expressive face. Her eyes,mlips, skin, hair-u call that butch???? Oh my word. She is not playing= romeo nor could she. Exactly who IS Hanyu portraying with the costume? Both?
 

Icey

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
I have done some research and realize it is I that sees much incorrectly with regard to R&J. If you knew how many years it has been since I read and studied the play in college and how much I have forgotten in the mean time, perhaps, you could find your way to excusing my lapse. In the play, Romeo and Juliet defy the stereotypical gender roles foisted on them by the culture in which they live. This piece explains it much better than I ever could and in detail. So both Ashley and Hanyu are actually being very true to the play. The problem, for the most part, is in the viewer who does not know Shakespeare or has, as I did, forgotten what he once knew. That circumstance is not likely to change, so a problem still exist and I really don't see there being a solution to it......except maybe not skating to R&J music.:eek:hwell:


http://underthefallenleaves.wordpre...eo-and-juliet-an-exploration-of-gender-roles/
 

Nadia01

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 10, 2009
All else set aside, Wagner did make it to the GPF and placed third, even with a few mistakes. So, I wouldn't say her season has been unsuccessful and that she has been scored badly. :p She's done very well for herself in an Olympic year, despite the fact that her LP isn't the best for her. And yes, having the 6th best LP score of the season is successful, especially since she's just about 2 points behind the 3rd highest scoring LP this season (Adelina). It's all about strategy. Sometimes peaking too early can be dangerous. A la Alissa Czisny in 2005/2006.

Although, I do agree with you Blades of Passion, that if Julia skates cleanly again, she will have higher points than at Skate Canada, I didn't take that into account.

I guess we will all see come Nationals and Sochi, if she can spruce up the program. Only time will tell!

I'm not sure how it's a good thing. She's 2 points behind Adelina, and any Russian lady is likely to score better in Russia (home ice advantage).

And you forget 2 ladies who definitely have the potential to outscore Ashley -- Yuna & CaroK. I don't know about CaroK's condition since she's injured, but Yuna's definitely going to outscore Ashley unless she's injured again. So that means Ashley's LP isn't going to be enough to put her on the podium, provided that everyone skates the way they're expected to skate.
 
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