Germany can be out of the Olympics due to the anti-gay law | Page 5 | Golden Skate

Germany can be out of the Olympics due to the anti-gay law

pista04

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 27, 2007
of course human rights should exist but should not be defined by the UN or other international western governing body
it should be defined from a countries borders only what the term human rights mean or whatever rights they think it is and means for its citizens

Again, I am working on my academic experience in Political Anthropology and International Relations. Yes, for hundreds of years (especially following the 1648 Peace of Westphalia which structured IR for hundreds of years) politics was based on the nation state where national borders provided very clear ideas of nationalist sovereignty, or the idea that a government has entire control over what occurs within their state and the manner in which their government is structured and no other state has any right or power in acting within another nation's borders, which largely extended to a policy of not commenting on anothers internal policies.

However, this has changed DRAMATICALLY in the past 50 years and even more so in the last 20 years. As we move toward a future of Global Governance within an economic and cultural system that is global rather than national, individuals are increasingly being identified as and identifying as cosmopolitan citizens of the world rather than a single nation. The simple fact that everyone in this thread does not come from the same nation echos this, as does the existence of the IOC and the Modern Olympic Movement. As we move towards this future, a nation's actions on their citizens become increasingly seen as concerns of the world on the human being, rather than only concerns of a nation on the national citizen. This is why on an academic level our discussion would easily move beyond the concept of national sovereignty.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
However, this has changed DRAMATICALLY in the past 50 years and even more so in the last 20 years. As we move toward a future of Global Governance within an economic and cultural system that is global rather than national, individuals are increasingly being identified as and identifying as cosmopolitan citizens of the world rather than a single nation. The simple fact that everyone in this thread does not come from the same nation echos this, as does the existence of the IOC and the Modern Olympic Movement. As we move towards this future, a nation's actions on their citizens become increasingly seen as concerns of the world on the human being, rather than only concerns of a nation on the national citizen. This is why on an academic level our discussion would easily move beyond the concept of national sovereignty.

I may sound like a conspiracy theorist now but I would not want to be a citizen of the world under one governing body, ever
I want to live a sovereign state with my own rules and policies, I appreciate diversity of opinions

this is actually one of the root causes of the World problems right now
too many government are interfering and not minding their own business
 

Pasdedeux

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 26, 2013
I may sound like a conspiracy theorist now but I would not want to be a citizen of the world under one governing body, ever
I want to live a sovereign state with my own rules and policies, I appreciate diversity of opinions

this is actually one of the root causes of the World problems right now
too many government are interfering and not minding their own business

Diversity of opinions is truly a wonderful thing UNLESS it results in direct harm to innocent people.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
it should be defined from a countries borders only what the term human rights mean or whatever rights they think it is and means for its citizens

So a country that persecutes gays or disenfranchises women are upholding human rights, going by their definition?

If the US or any country banned interracial marriage or allowed slavery would that be upholding human rights because the law finds nothing wrong with pro scribing that?

To say a country should define their own human rights and people should respect that could not be more of an obtuse statement, as there are several countries that persecute or discriminate against citizens and are completely fine with it and don't view it as a violation of basic human rights.
 

MalloryArcher

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 4, 2013
I don't think it's at all the same, Toni. A person cannot choose his race, ethnicity, country of origin or sexual orientation, but political opinions and even religious views can be changed and adapted. I don't actively seek to find out what anyone's political views are, but if a high profile person chooses to present them in a public forum (and that can include social media) that can affect my impression of them, for good or bad. It doesn't negate their professional accomplishments, but it can certainly impact my ability to take pleasure in these accomplishments.

Yes :) You understand what I'm saying.

Also I think tonichelle draws a false parallel between not supporting someone at the Olympics based on the country they represent and not appreciating their skills as skaters. I think some of the Russian skaters are great skaters but this comes after the fact that they are going on a world stage to represent and do proud an inherently discriminatory state now.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Diversity of opinions is truly a wonderful thing UNLESS it results in direct harm to innocent people.

ITA. If your opinion is you dislike gays, that's on you. But laws like these are harming LGBT citizens, under the false pretense of preventing children from being harmed by so-called gay propaganda. It prevents gays from even acknowledging that they are happy and normal. Worse, it removes children from loving families and parents which is actually counter intuitive to the whole "somebody think of the children" tripe used to defend these laws.
 

MalloryArcher

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 4, 2013
what the ? :unsure: being intolerable of other countries policies and others opinions
doesn't that make you a hypocrite

pls stop equating international community as European Countries
its racist, bias and very ethno centric

So I should be tolerant of Russia's intolerance. Puh-lease. You're being ridiculous.

Homophobia is not an important part of Russian culture. That's absurd. It's based on misinformation and superstition, it's harmful and it's wrong.

PS It's Russia that purports to be European by signing the European Convention on Human Rights (and then ignoring it).
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
I don't think it's at all the same, Toni. A person cannot choose his race, ethnicity, country of origin or sexual orientation, but political opinions and even religious views can be changed and adapted. I don't actively seek to find out what anyone's political views are, but if a high profile person chooses to present them in a public forum (and that can include social media) that can affect my impression of them, for good or bad. It doesn't negate their professional accomplishments, but it can certainly impact my ability to take pleasure in these accomplishments.

I could not control where I was born. The skaters that skate for Russia (all Russian athletes) did not have much of a choice when it came to their Nationality. yes, they could change to another country if they really really wanted to, but this sport is all about timing and waiting for citizenship doesn't always happen quickly.

I may completely disagree with you politically and religiously and I still like you just fine ;) If all I did was like and hang out with people that thought exactly like me how boring and skewed would my life be?
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
I could not control where I was born. The skaters that skate for Russia (all Russian athletes) did not have much of a choice when it came to their Nationality. yes, they could change to another country if they really really wanted to, but this sport is all about timing and waiting for citizenship doesn't always happen quickly.

I may completely disagree with you politically and religiously and I still like you just fine ;) If all I did was like and hang out with people that thought exactly like me how boring and skewed would my life be?
But I specifically noted that country of origin is not something I would hold against a skater, Toni. What I disagreed with was your equating religious and political beliefs - which individuals can choose and can decide whether to share publicly or not - with country of origin, race, ethnicity and sexual orientation, which cannot be controlled. Some might say that people can choose whether to express their sexuality or not, but to say that is to deny LGBT people the opportunity to have romantic relationships, so as far as I'm concerned it goes with race, country of origin and the rest.

I have noted more than once in this thread that I don't share MalloryArcher's feelings about all Russian skaters. However, I have little admiration for those Russian skaters who have expressed homophobic views. As for the rest, most just aren't my cup of tea skating-wise - I like some of the pairs, but none with a realistic shot at the podium, and I'm keeping an eye on Julia but am currently undecided about her. Plushy I find entertaining but there are skaters I like better.

I have friends who politics and faith are quite different from mine, but none who have expressed views that I find abhorrent. There are some people in this thread who have expressed such views, however, and some of their comments veer awfully close to being against GS guidelines (as I understand them).
 

Sasha'sSpins

Medalist
Joined
Apr 2, 2009
Country
United-States
I hate when politics interfere's with an athlete's long time Olympic dream. Boycotting did nothing in the long run in '80 and '84 (and other Olympic boycotts in prior years) but hurt the athletes and their respective families who worked so hard for their Olympics. Boycotting Sochi isn't going to change backwards, Russian laws. I hope the German athletes can go.
 
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