I never thought of that before reading this thread. Doubtful whether they are going to fix it, but well... They did get rid of the 2nd step sequence / awkward spiral thing and replaced those with choreo sequence, so I guess they are not fundamentally opposed to making changes that make sense.
About jump combos
- Thread starter supsu
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Shizuka was landing 3/3/3's around the 2006 games. She didn't go for it in the event but there were practice vids of her landing them effortlessly. There was a practice vid of Hanyu landing 4/3/3--but I don't think we will see this in competition. Too exhausting.
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If you mean his 4T-3A-3A-3A then it's here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLI2bKEL5DcI think Hanyu has something like a quad+3A+3A sequence, right? But he can't do it in competition because it sacrifices too many CoP points.
But since it's sequence I think it does not worth much points so it's only for show.
I don't understand why sequence and combination are not much valuable in COP at the moment. Because they want to prevent skater from repeating a jump many times in a program?
It sacrifices many points because if it is in sequence you end up only getting 80% of base value. EDIT: oh you meant, why IJS even has these rules.
As for doing really difficult jumps in combination.. there simply is no incentive. Doing a 4T-4T and a 3T is worth the same as doing a 4T-3T and a 4T. Why would anyone try to go for the 4T-4T. Also, because of Zayak's rule, if you use up all your quads/triples in a few combinations, you'll end up doing "lame" jumps.
For example:
If a Lady does 3Lz-3T
3F-1Lo-3S
2A-3T
For her last four jumping passes she will have to do:
3Lz
3Lo
2A
2Lz <---
If there was say, a 10% bonus on base value of jumps done in combination. Then there would be incentive to do more difficult combinations in order to get more bonus points. Similar to how the 10% 2nd half bonus gets skaters to try to balance their programs or even backload their programs.
That 10% sounds reasonable to me, and then maybe they could get rid of the 80% rule for sequences? It just doesn't make any sense to me that if you do a 3t2a sequence, it's worth less than doing 3t and 2a separately. Also, more variety in jump layouts IMO wouldn't be a bad thing.
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Shizuka Arakawa landed 3Lz-3T-2Lo and 3S-3T in 2004W FS, She won it!!
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Yes please! It also doesn't make sense that a 3L-2A sequence is worth less than a 3L-2L.
My best guess will be the lack of speed. All his jumps seems to have little flow.
Well, the sequence would fill a different slot than the two solo jumps.
E.g., a senior lady has the option to do three jump combos or sequences plus four solo jumps.
Depending what her skills are, a sequence of 3T+2A might be worth more than anything she could do in that slot.
She's required to do an axel somewhere, and repeated triples need to be in combination or sequence at least one of the times they're performed.
Suppose she can do all the triples up to 3Lz, but she can't put a 3T on the end of another landing.
With that skill set and those rules, her maximal jump technical content might be something like 3Lz, 3F, 3Lo, 3S,
3Lz+2T, 3F+2T+2Lo, 3T+2A+SEQ -- with the harder jumps and/or combos in the second half if possible.
I agree with that.
Currently the high base values for triple axels and quads make those high-risk elements worth trying even with underrotations or otherwise -GOE -- the base values outweigh the GOE risk.
The same is not so much true for difficult combinations -- which has more of an impact on the ladies, for whom triple-triples are usually the most risky difficult content.
Ideally it should be worthwhile for each skater to be appropriately rewarded the hardest clean or almost-clean content they are able to deliver.
But they still have to balance the risk of underrotation, downgrade, -GOE -- or missing the first jump in a combo/sequence and attempting or getting credit for the next jump at all.
Polina Edmunds does it. She opens her long program with a 3Lz+3T and a 3F+1Lo+3S.
yep, she does.. I wonder why she does it though. She'd probably get more points with a 2A-3T. Plus her 3F+1Lo+3S, isn't exactly the most aesthetically appealing thing either.. Maybe she can't use a straight edge double axel?
Actually, I just noticed that without a 2A-3T, she can do 7 triples + 2 2As while repeating both Lutz, and Flip. Both of which she is good at and uses correct edges on (applause to her).
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9SFsKB6MGU Plushenko 3A+1Lo+3F slow motion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBVM8NB27WI Plushenko 3A-4T the toeloop is cheated, but good attemt
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FdlSOHEzDU Hanyu 4T 3A 3A Sequence
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBVM8NB27WI Plushenko 3A-4T the toeloop is cheated, but good attemt
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FdlSOHEzDU Hanyu 4T 3A 3A Sequence
That is what I was getting at. You see these girls in first warm-up groups who don't have a 3-3 or 2a-3 and whose lutz, flip and maybe loop are kinda unreliable with iffy landings, so they might opt for doing them only as solo jumps. As a result, you see endless 3t2t 3s2t 2a2t combos, with an odd 2loop thrown in. If they were allowed to do, say, one jump seq (e.g. 3t2a) without the 80% thing, there'd be at least a bit more variety in the jump layout.
This is from a lay viewers perspective, of course. Would there be a downside from skaters' and/or judges' perspective if sequences with 2a became more common and a lot of skaters without 3-3 combos (which, in this scenario, would have 10% bonus on base value) would be doing them?
I love the 3A combinations and it's pity that so very few skaters still execute the 3A-3T combo.
Anyhow, my favourite combo is 3A-3T-3L executed by Plushenko at the end of Olympic gala in 2006: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChZMc1UvxRI (min. 2:30)
Anyhow, my favourite combo is 3A-3T-3L executed by Plushenko at the end of Olympic gala in 2006: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChZMc1UvxRI (min. 2:30)
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Yes.
At season 2011/2012 Polina Shelepen had 3Lz+3T and 3S+3T combos in FS. It was exotoc, but at next seasons became more popular.
At JrWorlds-2014 Evgenia MEDVEDEVA landed 3F+3T and (in second half of program!) 3S+3T.
Of course yes.
At Worlds-2014 Anna POGORILAYA and Polina EDMUNDS had 3+1Lo+3 combo in FS. Both also landed 3Lz+3T.
At JrWorlds-2014 Elena RADIONOVA, Serafima SAKHANOVICH, Alaine CHARTRAND also had 3+1Lo+3 combo in FS.
Yes may be.
Jumping content in Ladies FS
2A+3T+2T
2A+3T
3Lz+2T
3Lz
3F
3Lo
3S
(performed in different times by Shelepen, Lipnitskaia, Pogorilaya, Drynkina of Russian Ladies)
is much easier than content with two 3+3 combos, performed now by Edmunds, Pogorilaya, Radionova, but has almost the same base value.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLI2bKEL5Dc Hanyu 4T 3A 3A 3A Sequence
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- Feb 13, 2014
Good idea, is there any news they gonna change the rule soon? Because I would love to see skaters perform more difficult combos and sequences.
