Daisuke instead of Takahiko - Fair decision or not ?

FlattFan said:

Koz was overscored massively here. Hello SP. Hello LP. His skating is cold, and his programs are boring. I see a case made for Oda, but Oda didn't do enough to warrant a spot. Had Oda been 2nd, sure.

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Well that's an interesting one, because Machida likely would have been left off the team. I do agree that Oda's PCS was way too low in the SP, and Kozuka was overscored for having had 2 errors in his SP and no clean quad (and just one at that) and a fall in his LP.

FlattFan said:

Koz was overscored massively here. Hello SP. Hello LP. His skating is cold, and his programs are boring. I see a case made for Oda, but Oda didn't do enough to warrant a spot. Had Oda been 2nd, sure.

I don't feel bad for Koz at all. He's regressed so much he's not going to make the final round in Sochi anyway. I rather see Dai who's earned his spot for all his work the past 4 years.

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As long as we all stay gracious in victory as in defeat, all is well. :disapp:

1st. Machida
2nd. Oda
3rd. Hanyu
4th. Koz
5th. Dai

Top 3 go.

Frenchie said:

As long as we all stay gracious in victory as in defeat, all is well. :disapp:

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To answer the OP, yes, it's fair. All is well. :disapp: should be directed at Koz's performances all season.

FlattFan said:

To answer the OP, yes, it's fair. All is well. :disapp: should be directed at Koz's performances all season.

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Have you seen the youtube vids of him after the team had been announced?
I don't get your excitement at repeatedly kicking someone who's down in an unnecessarily degrading manner.
Oh well, to each his own I guess.

Was it fair? That's debatable, but I think that Daisuke deserves to go. From Kozuka's perspective, no, it doesn't seem fair, because he did everything he could, and he probably feels like he earned a spot on that team. Seeing him in tears was hard to watch, and I really am heartbroken for him. This was his Olympic dream, and he probably won't get another chance at it.
However, I think the JSF made the right decision to send Dai. It would have been such a shame for him to miss Sochi, after everything he has done these past four years. And it was fair in the sense that Dai has a higher world ranking, a higher SB, and had a better GP season. He may not have earned his spot at Nationals, but I do think he earned his spot. Though he is struggling with his jumps, I still think he is a stronger skater than Kozuka right now, and I think he has a better chance at getting a medal than Kozuka would.
Had they chosen Kozuka instead of Dai, people would have been claiming that that was unfair. People would have said that it was unfair to choose Kozuka just because he managed to beat Dai in one competition, though Dai had been stronger except for that. There's no pleasing everyone. So, was it fair? I think it was fair in some ways, but not others. We will never come to a clear answer whether it was "fair" or not, no matter how much we debate. Instead of being bitter, let's wish everyone who made the team the best of luck, and hope that they all skate their hearts out when they get their Olympic moment.

Oh, and I don't think that Dai is going to compete at Worlds. He was planning on retiring after the Olympics, so after the Olympics I think he will withdraw from Worlds and Kozuka will get the spot.

I would send Kozuka! I don't think Takahashi earned it. This season he has not been as great as he had been in the past.

I don't think it's fair. Basically they have said "we don't care what happens at Nats, we'll send who we want".

One can't help but look at the defensiveness in this thread and think back to last year when an identical situation occured...I can guarantee that if it had been, say, Plushenko....the internet would have exploded with screams of corruption.

karne said:

I don't think it's fair. Basically they have said "we don't care what happens at Nats, we'll send who we want".

One can't help but look at the defensiveness in this thread and think back to last year when an identical situation occured...I can guarantee that if it had been, say, Plushenko....the internet would have exploded with screams of corruption.

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Well, Russian nationals IS about to start... as I said earlier, if this is what happens with Dai at Japanese Nationals (which is far less corrupt in my mind than Russia), Kovtun/Voronov/etc. are screwed and all Plushenko has to do is stay on the ice for an SP and FS.

CanadianSkaterGuy said:

Well, Russian nationals IS about to start... as I said earlier, if this is what happens with Dai at Japanese Nationals (which is far less corrupt in my mind than Russia), Kovtun/Voronov/etc. are screwed and all Plushenko has to do is stay on the ice for an SP and FS.

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But why is it different? Because Japan is a "friendly" country to the West? Because Takahashi is more loved?

Russia looks for nationals and europeans. If Plushenko fail at nationals, he will go to euro and need good skate there. Then Sochi. If both fail, no Sochi. National competition is not all. Japan federation always made clear.
If Chan place 5th at nationals he 100% deserve olympics. National is only one competition.

I think they all had an idea of what the rules were like and what they had to do, so in that sense it's fair. There's a lot of logic behind not making the Nationals the end-all be-all, so as long as the skaters are well aware that that's the case, it's fair. However, I wish the system factored in consistency with a measure other than world rank, so Oda would be considered.

it's crazy that someone with 3 90+ TES FS scores and a podium at every event but Nats isn't going. I think with a different judging panel, he could have won NHK Trophy and the bronze medal here, which really makes me feel for him even more, since that would have improved his position.

But I can't get really get riled up because all 3 skaters are 100% worthy of going in terms of skills.

My main problem with the criteria that it rewarded certain parts of past performances while completely ignoring other ones.

For example, why are the top 3 in WR/SB considered but yet only the No. 1 at GPF is considered?

WR is also bogus for the reasons pointed out earlier. Oda was doomed there because of injuries that basically took him out in the second half of the 2011-2012 season and hampered him in 2012-2013. This was the first year Oda was injury free.

It's worth noting that in the season's world ranking, Noburnari is No. 2. Even if you take out the senior B he did (and the others), he would have been No. 3 behind Patrick and Yuzuru. Daisuke is No. 15.

Another worth noting is total scores.
Nobuanri scores: 262.98 (Nebelhorn)/233.00 (Skate Canada)/253.16 (NHK Trophy)/255.96 (GPF) Average: 251.28
Tatsuki scores: 226.21 (Asian Open Trophy) 265.38 (Skate America)/257.00(Cup of Russia)/236.03 (GPF)
Average: 246.16
Daisuke: 236.21 (Skate America)/268.31 (NHK Trophy)
Average: 252.26

Daisuke has the edge, but barely and because of his scores at NHK.

What's even more telling is the FS scores:

Nobunari: 152.18 (73.32 TES) (Skate Canada)/170.46 (88.62 TES) (NHK Trophy)/ 175.02 (91.58 TES)/(GPF)
Tatsuki: 174.20 (90.84 TES) (Skate America)/ 172.10 (89.60 TES) (Rostelecom Cup)/170.37 (88.07 TES) (GPF)
Daisuke: 159.12 (72.40 TES) (Skate America/ 172.76 (81.52 TES) (NHK Trophy)

Yes, Daisuke has the PCS scores to bail him out that neither Tatsuki or Nobunari has, but ultimately if he does not have the TES, the PCS only takes him so far, as we saw at Worlds in 2013.

So yes by the criteria Daisuke being chosen was fine, but it was clear they definitely did the cafeteria method as far as what factors were the most important.

This totally pains me to say because i'm glad that Daisuke is going to Sochi for more sentimental reasons and I love his skating. However, from a "was this fair" standpoint, that is where I stand.

karne said:

But why is it different? Because Japan is a "friendly" country to the West? Because Takahashi is more loved?

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In terms of why I think Russian judging is more corrupt, 4 words: Cup of Russia 2013.

What I was saying is that Dai and Plu are both revered in their respective countries. So much so that if a supposedly honourable country like Japan sends their 5th place finisher to Sochi, then one can imagine that Russian Nationals is hardly a team selection so much as an exhibition where as long as Plushenko stays on his feet, he'll likely be selected for Sochi - or at the least, Euros. Like, if Plushenko is 4th, will one of the top 3 guys be denied a Euros entry (and essentially their shot at Sochi)?

Regarding the Olympic team, I think sending Takahashi is fine. The 'fairest' thing, IMO, would have been to send Oda, because he was the most consistent out of the 3rd spot trio. But then again, it's always about who has the highest scoring potential too, and that's clearly Takahashi.
My problem lies with the world team though. Another skate off for the Sochi team would be a good idea in general, but with 4CC so close to the Olympics it would have been way to tough on the skaters. But they could have used 4CC and Sochi as additional showings to determine the worlds team. I'm so sad for Oda, because the JSF really seemed to try their best to keep him off the team. And then Kozuka, who had such a bad start and came fighting back at nationals. People are repeating again and again how Takahashi couldn't do his best because of his injury, but Kozuka is dealing with a severe injury too. So if that's any excuse for Takahashi, it should be able to count as an excuse for Kozukas bad GP showings too. At the end, it would be yet another reason to send Oda to Sochi. He's healthy.

Additionally, I get all the 'Yay, Dai has been chosen!' hype, but I actually didn't like the audience reaction that much. Of course everyone is allowed to suppoert whoever they want to, but it makes me even more heart-broken for Oda and Kozuka. It's a little like saying "See, if you just would have been more popular, we might have actually rewarded you for your work". Seeing Kozuka cry in that interview later didn't help

Li'Kitsu said:

Regarding the Olympic team, I think sending Takahashi is fine. The 'fairest' thing, IMO, would have been to send Oda, because he was the most consistent out of the 3rd spot trio. But then again, it's always about who has the highest scoring potential too, and that's clearly Takahashi.
My problem lies with the world team though. Another skate off for the Sochi team would be a good idea in general, but with 4CC so close to the Olympics it would have been way to tough on the skaters. But they could have used 4CC and Sochi as additional showings to determine the worlds team. I'm so sad for Oda, because the JSF really seemed to try their best to keep him off the team. And then Kozuka, who had such a bad start and came fighting back at nationals. People are repeating again and again how Takahashi couldn't do his best because of his injury, but Kozuka is dealing with a severe injury too. So if that's any excuse for Takahashi, it should be able to count as an excuse for Kozukas bad GP showings too. At the end, it would be yet another reason to send Oda to Sochi. He's healthy.

Additionally, I get all the 'Yay, Dai has been chosen!' hype, but I actually didn't like the audience reaction that much. Of course everyone is allowed to suppoert whoever they want to, but it makes me even more heart-broken for Oda and Kozuka. It's a little like saying "See, if you just would have been more popular, we might have actually rewarded you for your work". Seeing Kozuka cry in that interview later didn't help

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I totally agree. That must have been heartwrenching for Kozuka to know that he placed top 3 and yet the crowd was thrilled that he would not be going to Sochi in favour of Dai. It is rubbing it in his face that he's only not going to Sochi because of Dai's popularity. :disapp:

CanadianSkaterGuy said:

I totally agree. That must have been heartwrenching for Kozuka to know that he placed top 3 and yet the crowd was thrilled that he would not be going to Sochi in favour of Dai. It is rubbing it in his face that he's only not going to Sochi because of Dai's popularity. :disapp:

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It is not popularity only. Constellation was convenient for Japan federation to send Takahashi, and it was their wish, but to say it only due to Takahasi popularity is too easy.

Such a sweet thought from Misha Ge's tweet:

Misha Ge @Sk8Prince

"Its same time happy for team JP Mens who go to Olympic but sad for friends who are not going "Can they come to Olympic as extra?

To my mind, it's pretty disgusting that Oda wasn't even CONSIDERED, given his GPF bronze!

I am sad for Kozuka. Even though I've been a Daisuke fan longer, I wanted Kozuka to be on the team.

So the JSF sends Daisuke instead, and I have to ask--what's the point/purpose? Daisuke is simply no longer at his physical peak. He's an amazing performer, but even his programs this season are lacking something. So you send him to the Olympics so that he can do...what? Because Daisuke fans really want to see him struggle as he did at 2013 Worlds and fail to make the podium? That was painful.

Yes, there's a slim chance that he can keep it together and podium, but it's very slim. I get that Daisuke and his fans want to see him finish his skating career on a high note in Sochi. But while the JSF giving him this Olympic spot means hope stays alive and we will see him finish his career in Sochi, it may not be with performances that make anyone happy.