Russian Men prospects | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Russian Men prospects

spikydurian

Medalist
Joined
Jan 15, 2012
It's unlikely Russia will get back to it's golden age of skating with Yagudin/Plushenko rivalry.
I think they still can. Look at the upcoming Russian girls. Soon it may be Julia vs Elena just like Yag vs Plushenko. Russia has a centralised government funded training system like China which makes it easier for them to 'churn out' champions compared to non-centralised funded/self funded system in N. America and some European countries. And isn't figure skating a well loved sport in Russia too?
 

Jaana

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Country
Finland
I think Kovtun was sent to 2013 Worlds, because in that season he had won his both junior GP events plus the JGPF and was 5th at the senior Europeans. Nobody from the senior Russians was even close to these achievements. Kovtun needed senior experience and at Worlds he got it.

In current season he got silver from his both senior GP events and became Russian National champion. I believe he is the future of the Russian skating in men´s discipline.
 

hanca

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
I think they still can. Look at the upcoming Russian girls. Soon it may be Julia vs Elena just like Yag vs Plushenko. Russia has a centralised government funded training system like China which makes it easier for them to 'churn out' champions compared to non-centralised funded/self funded system in N. America and some European countries. And isn't figure skating a well loved sport in Russia too?

I agree. Russian men are currently going through a bit of slump but there are some promising juniors that may make it.
Pitkeev is only 15 and he is already getting decent results - gold and silver at JGP, silver at JGPF and 5th at senior nationals. He is coached by Tutberidze (Lipnitskaya and Medvedeva's coach).
Petrov is only 14 and got two silvers at JGP and fifth at JGPF.
Kolyada got silver and bronze from JGPF. He was first alternate for JGPF.
Samarin got two bronze medals last season at JGP events; this season he finished fourth at his first event, so they took his second event away from him.
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
Kovtun said he had to be told by Tarasova that Buianova was his coach at one point so I think theres some interesting stuff going on there and its very unclear. That for some reason Tarasova can't be seen as totally in control.
Tarasova is an appointed consultant(or something like that) for the whole Russian Team, so I guess she cant be singled out as coach of Kovtun. Lately when she was asked about RN results, she answered that she is interested in the progress of her student only(kovtun) and sort of was accused for it.
 

volk

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 24, 2007
I agree. Russian men are currently going through a bit of slump but there are some promising juniors that may make it.
Pitkeev is only 15 and he is already getting decent results - gold and silver at JGP, silver at JGPF and 5th at senior nationals. He is coached by Tutberidze (Lipnitskaya and Medvedeva's coach).
Petrov is only 14 and got two silvers at JGP and fifth at JGPF.
Kolyada got silver and bronze from JGPF. He was first alternate for JGPF.
Samarin got two bronze medals last season at JGP events; this season he finished fourth at his first event, so they took his second event away from him.

He's only 14? Now I'm impressed. I think he'll definitely be on Russian team in the future.

Another important question is how much can Kovtun improve on the 2nd mark?
 

wootie

Match Penalty
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Ya know, I actually like Sergei Voronov. He has a certain sly sexiness that borders on crazy/sketchy...but it's a nice contrast to Maxim Kovtun's very straight-edged classical aura.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
He's only 14? Now I'm impressed. I think he'll definitely be on Russian team in the future.

Another important question is how much can Kovtun improve on the 2nd mark?

I think Kovtun can definitely improve on it, but he already has good musicality, and can really sell a program. I still think his SP is my favourite this year... I thought that Virtue/Moir were the best to interpret/execute that music, but - for a men's SP - Kovtun is absolutely scintillating. I mean, that footwork... a Flamenco can look so sloppy if you don't have that attack and sharpness, and he's certainly got it.

Considering his season last year and this year, it's also remarkable that he got not one but 2 quads in such a short period of time, and with more consistency than a lot of other guys have shown this year (certainly more than Fernandez, Hanyu, Aaron and other attempting both the 4S and 4T). If not for Machida, he'd totally be my most improved skater this year.

In terms of ambitiousness, his program (3 quads and 2 triple axels) is exceedingly difficult... and to think he just came out of juniors. If he stays uninjured and with Tarasova pushing him at an accelerated pace and developing his artistry (thank god he left Morozov), at least his future is bright when it comes to the Russian men.
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
I think Kovtun can definitely improve on it, but he already has good musicality, and can really sell a program.

Last year at Euros he was as interesting as Pfeifer to watch. Actually Pfeifer is more musical. I m waiting to see his progress at these Euros, Tarasova has made a clever Lp for him, to cover the luck of personality for me, but anyway he is young.
 

Jaana

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Country
Finland
In my opinion Kovtun shows great musicality and artistry in sp and fs this season. He has improved a lot.
 

mielikki

Rinkside
Joined
Apr 28, 2013
Petrov frightens me a bit cause technically he's great but his style is set up as something very common, it lacks personality. But in his 14 Gachinski was that way too, and now he gained expression and portrays beautiful dramatic stuff. So I hope Petrov will change when he's older.

After Plushenko is out, Russian men will lose their idol whom they followed and whom their coaches hoped to copy in their students. I guess they will search for inspiration in skaters from other countries, adopt international values and pay more attention to PCS when they do now (in fact, they already started).
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
After Plushenko is out, Russian men will lose their idol whom they followed and whom their coaches hoped to copy in their students. I guess they will search for inspiration in skaters from other countries, adopt international values and pay more attention to PCS when they do now (in fact, they already started).

Totally. Russian skaters (and all skaters) should be well rounded and not jumping machines. Being a top skater is about way more than reeling off the jumps. No longer can you say "I have no transitions" or skate like you don't and get away with it.

The sooner they start paying more attention to program choreography, better spins, transitions, the better.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
There is choreo and cop choreo and let's not pretend that they are the same. Choreo and artistry are actually beig abolished for cop point getting.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
There is choreo and cop choreo and let's not pretend that they are the same. Choreo and artistry are actually beig abolished for cop point getting.

Choreo isn't theatrics, it's good skating with an intricate program. The 6.0 system didn't really care about poor spins or transitions/lack of program content, as long as you "looked artistic" and landed all your jumps.

The CoP, while I agree that it makes some programs not as emotionally interesting, that is the challenge of it - make a program that has the jumps, has the intricacy in between the jumps, has the spins/footwork, and that still offers an artistic/emotional performance. The whole point of the system was to challenge skaters and encourage them to be more well-rounded. To take less breaks, and add variety to their choreography.

It's weird that you would say Choreography is being abolished for point getting when it's now an actual tangible component in the PCS scores -- i.e. in the past, those who landed jumps but still had poor choreo would still get 5.8's, and it was hard to discern how much they were being penalized (if at all) for bad choreo. Now, you can actually see how much a skater is earning for choreography and it has a direct impact on the final score. If anything, choreography is being improved because skaters can no longer just do the jumps and be given high CH scores, they're actually putting more transitions in, they're doing more than just stroking from jump to jump... well, most skaters at least. :sarcasm:
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Chreo is not movement for the sake of movement and thats was cop has caused to explode! You can see it in a lot of the jr Russian ladies who have been dominating point getting in jumps and pcs. In 6.0 there could be choreo pauses and breaks and some just said it was vamping or posing or whatever and means now cop defined choreo tends to be non stop nonsense moves in chan lysacek 2010 in ice dance Davis and white. I like that Abbott actually has a moment in his muse fs where he just stops with a hand to the ice! Really bold to do!
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Chreo is not movement for the sake of movement and thats was cop has caused to explode! You can see it in a lot of the jr Russian ladies who have been dominating point getting in jumps and pcs. In 6.0 there could be choreo pauses and breaks and some just said it was vamping or posing or whatever and means now cop defined choreo tends to be non stop nonsense moves in chan lysacek 2010 in ice dance Davis and white. I like that Abbott actually has a moment in his muse fs where he just stops with a hand to the ice! Really bold to do!

Right, because posing and doing hip thrusts isn't nonsensical. :laugh: You'll see that there still are breaks in CoP programs. But there aren't many stand-and-pose-and-emote breaks as we've seen in the past. Skating throughout a program instead of taking several breaks is rewarded more, as it should be. Any skater knows that a program is much more impressive and difficult when there are less pauses. Maybe certain members of the audience are upset that they're not having a mini-theatrical play each time a skater goes out, but last time I checked, it's a sport and not a competition for best actor/actress.... Olympics, not the Oscars. ;)
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
"Stand and pose emote breaks" are some of the most choreographically interesting and worthy elements in some programs throughout skating history! When plushenko received almost nothing but 6.0 and 5.9 for his najinski program you saw it then. And it such programs by Witt and Petrenko and so many others throughout history who did see that you can merge skating skills of extraordinary merit and pauses and Dance moves well. Hip thrusts can have choreographic merit in many different kinds of programs. I just don't agree with saying hip thrusts never have merit choreographically. It's not chireography just while moving. Posing can't have merit? Why? I have never read anywhere a convincing argument why certain moves don't have merit.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
"Stand and pose emote breaks" are some of the most choreographically interesting and worthy elements in some programs throughout skating history! When plushenko received almost nothing but 6.0 and 5.9 for his najinski program you saw it then. And it such programs by Witt and Petrenko and so many others throughout history who did see that you can merge skating skills of extraordinary merit and pauses and Dance moves well. Hip thrusts can have choreographic merit in many different kinds of programs. I just don't agree with saying hip thrusts never have merit choreographically. It's not chireography just while moving. Posing can't have merit? Why? I have never read anywhere a convincing argument why certain moves don't have merit.

I give skaters one emote break, no more than 5 seconds. Nijinsky had like 5 of them. As a skater, you should be skating and emoting, not standing or doing a long 1 or 2 foot glide and showing the judges your acting skills and histrionics.

So, one moment you bash COP choreo (whatever "COP choreo" even is...) as having non-stop "nonsense moves", but then say you've never heard a convincing argument why certain moves don't have merit? That's contradictory.

And if you think hip thrusts have choreographic merit in many kinds of programs (other than the programs you might see at a strip club, mind you), I really don't know what to say. :rolleye: You want cheesy hip thrusts, save it for an exhibition when people want to hoot and holler and be entertained, but that has no place in any competitive program where you're actually trying to showcase legitimate interpretation. Although I'm wasting my breath... if you're defending hip thrusts, you'd probably defend Plu breaking out into the macarena in the middle of Tosca, probably even call it avant garde interpretation and choreography. :laugh:
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
If you are doing a Najinski program and do najinski poses than that is good choreo. If you are doing a Macarena program and do Macarena choero than what's the problem? Macarena during Tosca just wouldn't make sense. There is absolutely no choreo that is exhibition only or competition only. It can all be merged and I look forward to lyrics being allowed in Free skates in singles to see what is done. It's allowed it dance and there have been no macarenas but I would judge it when I saw it and have no set idea of what skaters must do. This is what COP is kind of promoting though which is just non stop movement for movements sake in which there are no moments of dramatic pauses or anything. Anything can merit if done well.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
You want cheesy hip thrusts, save it for an exhibition when people want to hoot and holler and be entertained, but that has no place in any competitive program where you're actually trying to showcase legitimate interpretation.

You have no idea what legitimate interpretation is, based on this sentence (and everything else you write). It's entirely possible for a hip thrust to interpret the music better than a rocker or a counter. Maybe one day you'll understand that.

Ice skating is more than an empty vessel that serves itself. Almost nobody on the planet cares about watching people try to cram in as many edge changes as possible into their skating. People care about skating for the unique, beautiful, "super-human" movement it creates, which lends itself to jumping, spinning, and various dance-like and performance qualities.

Failing to embrace the essential art of ice skating is a death wish for the sport. There continues to be more and more media and sources of recreation available to people. If skating isn't interesting, exciting, and relevant, then it has nowhere to go.
 
Top