Russian Men prospects | Golden Skate

Russian Men prospects

volk

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 24, 2007
It's unlikely Russia will get back to it's golden age of skating with Yagudin/Plushenko rivalry. But can they dominated Europeans they way they did before? Now Russian has Kovtun, but two more skaters are needed. Gachinsky has been a disappointment so who can fill the void? Pitkeev? Petrov?
 

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
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Jan 1, 2013
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Australia
Gachinski is 20 and not done yet.
 

gmyers

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Joined
Mar 6, 2010
It all depends if gachinski can get back to 2012 euros shape where he placed second. Then with kovtun it could be poissible to have two Russians on the podium again. If that doesn't ever happen is there a future other than kovtun? Don't think that's clear yet and pitkeev and petrov are not tested yet. But even in having kovtun Russia is in a more improved position than it was in the first post plushenko era with voronov and lutai and Griazev. It's not going to be as bad but there's a vacuum- basically nobody in their mid 20's is good! That's a lost generation.
 

LRK

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Joined
Nov 13, 2012
I think it would also depend on the other European men, and how good they are. There's Javi, who's going through a rough spot at the moment (whatever the reason for that may be), but will probably be back sooner or later. Then there's Florent. Brian is retiring. Verner and Brezina? What European up and comers are there? If there aren't many contenders, people could end up on the Euro's podium by default.
 

gmyers

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Mar 6, 2010
I wonder what could become of Chaffik besseghier of France. See if be could be a max Aaron. A Joubert replacement.
 

Frenchie

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May 4, 2013
I wonder what could become of Chaffik besseghier of France. See if be could be a max Aaron. A Joubert replacement.

I'm afraid Chafik won't develop into a top contender for Euros or Worlds anymore. :disapp:
He's already 24 and still remains very inconsistent. His jumps - despite their remarkable height - mostly have sloppy landings, so he's bad at doing -3T combos, or even -2T2T. He gets low PCS as well.
The FFSG has been waiting for years for him to step it up, I think by now they've pretty much given up and will focus on supporting a newer generation.

France will fall further from the international map after Brian Joubert and Péchalat/Bourzat retiring. :no: I wonder if another country (Italy?) will push to get the GP instead of France's Trophée Éric Bompart in the next years.
 

ghislaine

Rinkside
Joined
Jul 11, 2011
Gachinski is 20 and not done yet.

No, he's not, but he hasn't been a factor for two seasons. He needs to get out of his rut soon. Another coach might help.

I think Pitkeev will rise to the challenge. But I have noticed that the coming-up Russian men have very similar styles. If I turn on the junior grand prix in the middle of a skate I can always tell if the boy skating is Russian.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
I'm afraid Chafik won't develop into a top contender for Euros or Worlds anymore. :disapp:
He's already 24 and still remains very inconsistent. His jumps - despite their remarkable height - mostly have sloppy landings, so he's bad at doing -3T combos, or even -2T2T. He gets low PCS as well.
The FFSG has been waiting for years for him to step it up, I think by now they've pretty much given up and will focus on supporting a newer generation.

France will fall further from the international map after Brian Joubert and Péchalat/Bourzat retiring. :no: I wonder if another country (Italy?) will push to get the GP instead of France's Trophée Éric Bompart in the next years.

Well besseghier was still third so it's kind of not him then who? Lol. I dont see France losing a gp to Italy. If anything South Korea.

No, he's not, but he hasn't been a factor for two seasons. He needs to get out of his rut soon. Another coach might help.

I think Pitkeev will rise to the challenge. But I have noticed that the coming-up Russian men have very similar styles. If I turn on the junior grand prix in the middle of a skate I can always tell if the boy skating is Russian.

I disagree petrov and pitkeev or Samarin or kolyada are all the same.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
If Russia keeps paying millions of dollars just to beg 30 something year old men, no longer competitive with the Worlds elite, to compete, then no they will never return to the top level. It would be the equivalent of the USFSA paying legend Kwan millions of dollars and guaranteeing her all, including an Olympic spot (or their only one if they had only one), just to finish 17th at the Olympics as a 33 year old. USFSA are not that stupid though, they know the only way to is to move onwards and try their best to rebuild within.
 

Frenchie

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May 4, 2013
Well besseghier was still third so it's kind of not him then who?
Exactly. That's why I wrote
France will fall further from the international map after Brian Joubert and Péchalat/Bourzat retiring. :no:

I dont see France losing a gp to Italy. If anything South Korea.
I think a criteria will be that the host should have some presentable skaters in each category.
South Korea doesn't even have a Pairs or an Ice Dance event in their National Championship.
Either that, or they get rid of that "3 entries out of 10 / 8 for the host country" rule... 3 French ladies or 3 Chinese Ice Dancers... ahem... :unsure:
But since Carolina Kostner and Valentina Marchei will end their career after this season, and Stefania Berton & Ondřej Hotárek might also stop soon (she's engaged to Rockne Brubaker now and he's already 29), Italy won't be what it was either :no: Gosh! I'm already mourning skaters that haven't even retired yet! :cry:
 

LRK

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Nov 13, 2012
There will be mass retirements, and the figure skating landscape is going to be vastly different... and it's going to feel very empty, missing all those familar faces...
 

Frenchie

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May 4, 2013
There will be mass retirements, and the figure skating landscape is going to be vastly different... and it's going to feel very empty, missing all those familar faces...

Thank God there's youtube to get over the worst of it! ;)
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Exactly. That's why I wrote



I think a criteria will be that the host should have some presentable skaters in each category.
South Korea doesn't even have a Pairs or an Ice Dance event in their National Championship.
Either that, or they get rid of that "3 entries out of 10 / 8 for the host country" rule... 3 French ladies or 3 Chinese Ice Dancers... ahem... :unsure:
But since Carolina Kostner and Valentina Marchei will end their career after this season, and Stefania Berton & Ondřej Hotárek might also stop soon (she's engaged to Rockne Brubaker now and he's already 29), Italy won't be what it was either :no: Gosh! I'm already mourning skaters that haven't even retired yet! :cry:

You also wrote about France supporting a new genration of men but of all the men at French nationals besseghier still placed third.

The issue of South Korea providing men dance teams and pairs for host picks may not be as important as Asia.

But I don't think France is losing a gp just because of retirements.
 

gmyers

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Mar 6, 2010
If Russia keeps paying millions of dollars just to beg 30 something year old men, no longer competitive with the Worlds elite, to compete, then no they will never return to the top level. It would be the equivalent of the USFSA paying legend Kwan millions of dollars and guaranteeing her all, including an Olympic spot (or their only one if they had only one), just to finish 17th at the Olympics as a 33 year old. USFSA are not that stupid though, they know the only way to is to move onwards and try their best to rebuild within.

But Russia also gave kovtun the worlds spot after he placed fifth at nationals and pays for tarasova to coach and campaign for him- no matter what nonsense is said about some other woman being his coach.
 

Frenchie

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May 4, 2013
You also wrote about France supporting a new genration of men but of all the men at French nationals besseghier still placed third.
I'm talking about funding their training to increase their chances of making it in a few years. I'm not saying that any french Junior is better than Besseghier today.
There's always some benefit if your federation pays for you to participate in a high level training camp (in Russia) or pay for you to spend a few weeks with a renowned choreographer to get a new program together. The FFSG has done that in the past for Besseghier, I don't think they're going to do it anymore.
Romain Ponsart seemed to have some potential 2 seasons ago, but he's been off the grid this entire season. No idea if he's injured. His biggest asset is being coached by Annick Dumont-Gailhaguet because of her huge influence in the FFSG (ex-wife of Didier Gailhaguet, maybe the most corrupt of all ISU officials. Ever. Picture Napoléon Bonaparte. With less hair.). I already pointed that out recently with Samuel Contesti not getting his Olympic Spot in 2006 because the weaker skater was coached by Annick Gailhaguet.
But I don't know if she doesn't already have another, more hopeful, younger skater.
I think the overall interest in Figure Skating in France, already lightyears away from what it was with Candéloro, Bonaly, Duchesnays, Joubert at his peak etc, will fall to an all-time low after this season's retirements, so they will probably put up with a few years without strong results for France, to increase the chances of having a future champion.
That's why I don't think they'll invest into Besseghier anymore. And for now and the next few years, there's still Amodio... If someone can manage to convince him that doing combinations in the LP isn't uncool! :laugh:
 

skateluvr

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Joined
Oct 23, 2011
I like Artur G. He is only 20, but so many men are better, in japan alone. I wish he would leave Mishin and stop trying to copy plush. He seems like a wannabe. He needs his own style. Of course he adores plush, but he needs his own style.
 

Frenchie

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May 4, 2013
no matter what nonsense is said about some other woman being his coach.

That other woman is Elena Buianova. She was one of the biggest stars in female figure skating in the Soviet Union as Elena Vodorezova, 5-time Soviet Champion, winning a bronze medal at the 1983 Worlds and 3 medals at Europeans. She was the first soviet woman to ever medal at Europeans. She was the coach of Olga Markova.

She might not be as loud and in your face! as Tarasova, but she is, in fact, the true coach of Sotnikova and Kovtun and has been for years (Sotnikova since she was 8, Kovtun only for 2 years - before that, Kovtun's coach was... Morozov!).
 

gmyers

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Mar 6, 2010
I'm talking about funding their training to increase their chances of making it in a few years. I'm not saying that any french Junior is better than Besseghier today.
There's always some benefit if your federation pays for you to participate in a high level training camp (in Russia) or pay for you to spend a few weeks with a renowned choreographer to get a new program together. The FFSG has done that in the past for Besseghier, I don't think they're going to do it anymore.
Romain Ponsart seemed to have some potential 2 seasons ago, but he's been off the grid this entire season. No idea if he's injured. His biggest asset is being coached by Annick Dumont-Gailhaguet because of her huge influence in the FFSG (ex-wife of Didier Gailhaguet, maybe the most corrupt of all ISU officials. Ever. Picture Napoléon Bonaparte. With less hair.). I already pointed that out recently with Samuel Contesti not getting his Olympic Spot in 2006 because the weaker skater was coached by Annick Gailhaguet.
But I don't know if she doesn't already have another, more hopeful, younger skater.
I think the overall interest in Figure Skating in France, already lightyears away from what it was with Candéloro, Bonaly, Duchesnays, Joubert at his peak etc, will fall to an all-time low after this season's retirements, so they will probably put up with a few years without strong results for France, to increase the chances of having a future champion.
That's why I don't think they'll invest into Besseghier anymore. And for now and the next few years, there's still Amodio... If someone can manage to convince him that doing combinations in the LP isn't uncool! :laugh:

They should always invest in Jrs but not ignore the Besseghiers and the Vanessa James / Cipres team.

I like Artur G. He is only 20, but so many men are better, in japan alone. I wish he would leave Mishin and stop trying to copy plush. He seems like a wannabe. He needs his own style. Of course he adores plush, but he needs his own style.

I don't think hes anything like PLushenko at all anymore! I think if people thinking that as long as he's with mishin its the number one reason for him to leave if it is holding him back and when he was doing ok was really holding his PCS back.

That other woman is Elena Buianova. She was one of the biggest stars in female figure skating in the Soviet Union as Elena Vodorezova, 5-time Soviet Champion, winning a bronze medal at the 1983 Worlds and 3 medals at Europeans. She was the first soviet woman to ever medal at Europeans. She was the coach of Olga Markova.

She might not be as loud and in your face! as Tarasova, but she is, in fact, the true coach of Sotnikova and Kovtun and has been for years (Sotnikova since she was 8, Kovtun only for 2 years - before that, Kovtun's coach was... Morozov!).

Kovtun said he had to be told by Tarasova that Buianova was his coach at one point so I think theres some interesting stuff going on there and its very unclear. That for some reason Tarasova can't be seen as totally in control.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
I doubt Russian men can return to its golden age in the late 90's
but there could be an improved prospect for the future, Kovtun seems to handle pressure more than Gachinski
probably because of Kovtun's Huge Ego, his talent could become a 2nd tier Russian skater type from the 90's like Alexander Abt etc. not too bad
then there is Pitkeev and Petrov who are still very young but are promising

the problem with most of the men are inconsistent, you have Moris Kvitelashvili who has quads but seems have trouble landing them
then there is Samarin with zero 3Axel
 
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