Greatest Ladies Free Skates of All Time | Page 5 | Golden Skate

Greatest Ladies Free Skates of All Time

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
What a chain of events Ito winning in 92 would have set up too. Kristi was always planning on staying for 94, in part since her defeats to Harding and Ito early in the 92 season made her feel like she wasnt going to win without the triple axel (which she tried hard to acquire in practice but never could) despite being reigning World Champion. After winning in 92 I think she was initially still planning on going to 94, but the pro opportunities came and pro life was just too cushy and lucrative to want to bother with amateur skating having done it all, especialy as an amateur she wasnt getting near the endorsements Kerrigan did due to her Asian American heritage. Had Ito won in 92, Krist would have dominated 93 and 94, and the whole Baiul fairytale rise, Kerrigan vs Harding drama, would have never happened. Then others like Baiul, Sato, who wouldnt have won their big titles almost certainly stay, and does this interfere with the rises of Kwan, and even moreso Lipinski. Does Tara even still win in 98, and if she does does she too stay until 2002 too. So many what ifs.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
I also forgot if Kristi doesnt win in 92 and stays for 94, and the whole Kerrigan-Harding thing never happens, pro skating never takes off so much from 94-99 so Baiul, Lipinski, and almost everyone probably stays amateur alot longer which changes everything too. Then again maybe Harding clubs Kristi now, or hires someone to club both.
 

LiamForeman

William/Uilyam
Medalist
Joined
Nov 24, 2006
Ito also got screwed in 1992 by Bonaly on practice. She backflipped right where Ito was setting up her 3A for the SP which she ended up crashing on in practice. This got in her head for the balance of the week. :bang:

This is such an old wives tale. Bonaly did the backflip-3toe at the opposite end of the rink of Ito's axel. Yes Ito was there at the end of the rink when Bonaly did that, but I am hardly convinced Bonaly even bothered her. And Ito didn't crash on that run, she popped it. And if Ito was bothered by a Bonaly Back and it was THAT that got in her head then she didn't have the intestinal fortitude to ever be an Oly champ. Let go of that tale. It's like saying Chouinard woulda coulda shoulda done better in Lillehamer except for Harding. Except we see poor Josee give the exact same performance a few weeks later at Worlds and she has no excuse but herself.
 

jenaj

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Country
United-States
I also forgot if Kristi doesnt win in 92 and stays for 94, and the whole Kerrigan-Harding thing never happens, pro skating never takes off so much from 94-99 so Baiul, Lipinski, and almost everyone probably stays amateur alot longer which changes everything too. Then again maybe Harding clubs Kristi now, or hires someone to club both.

Hmm, maybe. But weren't there only two spots for '94? So maybe Nancy still gets whacked. And it would have been pretty exciting if Kristi had won two Olympic golds. This makes me wish she had stayed in!
 

AmEagle3313

Rinkside
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Hmm, maybe. But weren't there only two spots for '94? So maybe Nancy still gets whacked. And it would have been pretty exciting if Kristi had won two Olympic golds. This makes me wish she had stayed in!

If Kristi stayed in and skated in 1993 at Worlds, it's unlikely we would have had only two slots for the 1994 Olympics. I don't see Kristi finishing out of the medals at that World Championships, to be honest.
 

jenaj

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Country
United-States
If Kristi stayed in and skated in 1993 at Worlds, it's unlikely we would have had only two slots for the 1994 Olympics. I don't see Kristi finishing out of the medals at that World Championships, to be honest.

Good point! Does this mean Kristi is really to blame for the knee-whacking?
 

amc987

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 12, 2012
I was watching some of the performances from the 92 and 94 Games on YouTube and I was struck by how flawed some of them were. I guess because of Nagano, Salt Lake, and Vancouver I've come to expect Olympic medalists to do clean 6- or 7-triple free skates to get on the podium. Even Kristi Yamaguchi, Oksana Baiul, and Nancy Kerrigan had multiple errors in their free programs. The pitch perfect Olympic moment is rarer than I realized.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
I was watching some of the performances from the 92 and 94 Games on YouTube and I was struck by how flawed some of them were. I guess because of Nagano, Salt Lake, and Vancouver I've come to expect Olympic medalists to do clean 6- or 7-triple free skates to get on the podium. Even Kristi Yamaguchi, Oksana Baiul, and Nancy Kerrigan had multiple errors in their free programs. The pitch perfect Olympic moment is rarer than I realized.

Yes, isn't it amazing when you realize how rare a smooth performance is at the Olympics. I remember the first time I looked back at Kristi's 1992 long program at Albertville. When she fell, I was shocked. I totally hadn't remembered that. One thinks of Kristi as always being cool under pressure, and being meticulous and pretty much perfect.

It gives one a greater respect for what these skaters do, doesn't it? It's a good thing no one can monitor their blood pressure during an Olympic skating performance. Can you imagine how high the readings would be? (They'd be high enough just in the fans and the coaches!)
 

AmEagle3313

Rinkside
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Good point! Does this mean Kristi is really to blame for the knee-whacking?

:laugh:

I think the Japanese Media circus in 1992 is to blame. It put so much pressure on Midori that she didn't skate to her potential and beat Kristi, which kept Kristi from staying amateur through 1994, which led to only two US Olympic spots in 1994, which led (probably) to 'the whack heard 'round the world.' (DISCLAIMER: this is all sarcasm.) :laugh:

On topic, I've been lurking in this thread, because there are so many performances that I find to be great for different reasons, that it's tough for me to decide. It's like my favorite food...depends on how hungry I am. For example, Naomi Nari Nam, although objectively not the greatest ladies' performance, showed her talent and youthful exuberance so well in 1999 at Nationals...I find myself youtubing it from time to time just to smile. I also find myself drawn to somewhat underdog skaters who have their one great performance: Caryn Kadavy at the 87 worlds, Angela Nikodinov LP at 2001 Nats, Fumie Suguri at 2002 Worlds...none of those are in the running, but they're great to me because those are the performances where the skaters, for that one moment, overcame everything else and skated their best. One other performance is Sasha Cohen at Cup of Russia in (I think) 2002 when she skated her Rach program mostly cleanly.

As far as (what I would call to be objective) bests: Midori Ito's 1990 worlds LP, Kristi Yamaguchi's 1992 Nats LP, Lu Chen's 1995 worlds LP (especially if she hits the 2nd lutz), Lu Chen's 1996 Worlds LP, Michelle Kwan's 2001 Worlds LP, and now I'm letting the list get too long.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
I also think Tonya was affected by Kristi's retirement as she was motivated by chasing Kristi, whose abilities she respected. Despite having small jumps she didnt wimp out on technical content, and always went for some of the hardest jumps even without a 3axel (triple lutz-triple toe, triple flip-triple toe at times, a 2nd triple lutz, 6 and 7 triple programs), and usually delivered. Despite being given an artistic advantage in the judges eyes over everyone, especialy Midori and Tonya, Kristi still pushed herself hard technically as well and was a ferocious competitor who loved a fierce athletic competition. I think Tonya resented Nancy who she thought was really not that great a technical skater, artist, certainly not a competitor and who she believed benefited from her hype and prettiness. At the 93 Nationals Nancy skated almost as badly as Tonya but won easily, while Tonya came 4th behind nobody Kwiatkowski who landed only 1 triple, and missed the team. At the 92 Olympics Nancy's poor LP was placed above Tonya's decent one in that phase (it wouldnt have changed the podium mind you) by nearly almost every judge, and Nancy was winning medals even with splatty performances while Tonya needed to land her triple axels to challenge Kristi and Midori or even medal at all. Nancy was hyped up to U.S and World #1 instantly by the USFSA and U.S press when Kristi retired prematurely.

Who knows with 3 spots for the 94 Games but Kristi around, it might be Nancy (who NEVER would have become #1 with Kristi still around, especialy with the garbage skating she showed in the 93 season) who would be feeling the heat. Maybe she would have hired Jerry Solomon to club her so called good friend Kristi or Tonya.

What I will say is Kristi's winning the 92 Olympics and going pro early had a carryover effect for many skaters, for many years to come, I believe.
 

amc987

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 12, 2012
Yes, isn't it amazing when you realize how rare a smooth performance is at the Olympics. I remember the first time I looked back at Kristi's 1992 long program at Albertville. When she fell, I was shocked. I totally hadn't remembered that. One thinks of Kristi as always being cool under pressure, and being meticulous and pretty much perfect.

It gives one a greater respect for what these skaters do, doesn't it? It's a good thing no one can monitor their blood pressure during an Olympic skating performance. Can you imagine how high the readings would be? (They'd be high enough just in the fans and the coaches!)

It definitely gives me a greater respect for what the skaters do. I can't imagine training your whole life to reach one Olympic moment. The only pressure that compares to it in sports must be in gymnastics where you usually have to be perfect in order to win, and because of the demanding nature of the sport, you'll probably only have one Olympic opportunity. It's a wonder these skaters can even tie up their boots and go out there. My hands would be shaking.
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
If everyone skated their best in 1992

At the Olympics
1. Midori
2. Tonya (both beat Kristi when they landed the 3As)
3. Kristi
4. Nancy

Then at World.
1. Tonya
2. Kristi
3. Nancy

1993 World, Tonya, by this point, probably lost her 3A
1. Kristi
2. Tonya
3. Baiul

1994 Olympics
1. Kristi
2. Baiul
3. Tonya (if she's chasing Kristi)

Nancy would never come close to what she achieved. It was a combination of luck, timing, and political support that she was 2 times Olympics medalist. Maybe I should add her name to the list of skaters who have it all. :)
 

AmEagle3313

Rinkside
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
If everyone skated their best in 1992

At the Olympics
1. Midori
2. Tonya (both beat Kristi when they landed the 3As)
3. Kristi
4. Nancy

Then at World.
1. Tonya
2. Kristi
3. Nancy

1993 World, Tonya, by this point, probably lost her 3A
1. Kristi
2. Tonya
3. Baiul

1994 Olympics
1. Kristi
2. Baiul
3. Tonya (if she's chasing Kristi)

Nancy would never come close to what she achieved. It was a combination of luck, timing, and political support that she was 2 times Olympics medalist. Maybe I should add her name to the list of skaters who have it all. :)

I totally agree with the 92 rankings, assuming everybody skated their best.

With Tonya as hypothetical defending World Champion in 93, I could see her (skating cleanly) being placed above Baiul and Kerrigan without the 3A, but it would be close. Nancy had 2 Lutzs planned and a 3t-3t in that program (if I recall correctly), so if she hit them both, and Baiul skating cleanly, it would be up in the air if the defending world champ marks would have been there for her. Skating cleanly, Skate Canada also would have had a case for Chouinard to be up there, and Lu Chen.

For 94, though, it would really depend on whether we give Tonya credit for the 3A she had planned. Without that, her programs...bleh. She would have really struggled to compete against a clean field, with Chouinard's choreo and two lutzs, Kerrigan's 3t-3t, Sato, Lu Chen...I think she really would have struggled in an even field in the 94 Olympics.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
If everyone skated their best in 1992

At the Olympics
1. Midori
2. Tonya (both beat Kristi when they landed the 3As)
3. Kristi
4. Nancy

Then at World.
1. Tonya
2. Kristi
3. Nancy

1993 World, Tonya, by this point, probably lost her 3A
1. Kristi
2. Tonya
3. Baiul

1994 Olympics
1. Kristi
2. Baiul
3. Tonya (if she's chasing Kristi)

Nancy would never come close to what she achieved. It was a combination of luck, timing, and political support that she was 2 times Olympics medalist. Maybe I should add her name to the list of skaters who have it all. :)

It's difficult to say how things would have turned out had Kristi remained eligible. Had Kristi participated in Lilihamer, I'm certain that Baiul would have attempted 7 triples, as anyone who can do the jumps through the lutz can attempt 7.
 
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