Senior Free Programs at Canadian Nationals -- Split Again ! | Golden Skate

Senior Free Programs at Canadian Nationals -- Split Again !

colleen o'neill

Medalist
Joined
Nov 3, 2006
Maybe the mods will move this to the national section... or maybe someone's already raised this..

In the meantime, I was looking at the competition schedule to plan out streaming vs. TV watching , and once again there will be some very large time gaps between the last flight and every one else at nationals, I suppose to accommodate TV .

:eek::eek::scowl:

I find this infuriating..oh ,they'll have a sunday recap show ,so maybe if someone not from the last flight does something extraordinary we'll get to see it .. But it's not the viewers that I'm upset for...

I fail to see how this can be guaranteed to be a fair competition when there's a gap of over 6 hrs in the Men's competition, over 5 hrs. for Dance.. 4hrs. for the Women and about an hour and a half for Pairs .. I know I've ranted about this in the past, but I truly think there's room for mistakes when say 2/3 or more of the competition goes in the morning and the last third in the late afternoon.

I'm not really up to date this year having had many things to deal with, so I'll just use Dance as an example , since I'm most familiar with the field. It's not only third place that will be hotly contested , but the available spots for next yrs. national team. We already had more than five deserving teams last year and there will be more moving up from Juniors this year. Say there are 3 couples in contention for that fifth spot ... it's likely only one will have 5hrs. longer to prepare ,rest ( or on the negative side more time for nerves to get out of control)...and they'll be coming into a different ambient environment. Judges are human too.. I'm sure they'll try to do their best , but I doubt we can rule out that it might not make a difference for them, too.

I really hate this set - up.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Yes, US Nationals has this same miserable setup. Both the Dance & Pairs are split this year.

However, the TV folk are the ones who insist on this, and since skating is not as popular as it once was, the federations are in no position to insist on anything, really.

It used to be that the whole competition was broadcast on some other channel in Canada (besides the sunday recap)? I think PJ Kwong was the commentator? Will this broadcast happen this year?

I believe the whole US program will be on Universal Sports, but the problem is still that so few cable providers offer it :bang:
 

mmcdermott

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
The other thing that annoys me about this is that it's not as if these events are so competitive and exciting that you just have to see them live. I mean, the top two in at least 3 disciplines are pretty much set. It's certainly not worth compromising the integrity of the competition just to show them live.

I suspsect that CTV just doesn't want to sacrifice too much of their other programming for this, so cramming it into one broadcast suits them better. I'd rather see a separate afternoon and evening broadcast with some events live and some taped.

Oh, but wait, the main event isn't even going to be on CTV, it's on TSN:

http://skatecanada.ca/en-us/eventsresults/broadcastschedule.aspx

Last year it was on CTV, wasn't it? This makes it even worse.
 

Near

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 25, 2013
Country
Canada
The other thing that annoys me about this is that it's not as if these events are so competitive and exciting that you just have to see them live. I mean, the top two in at least 3 disciplines are pretty much set. It's certainly not worth compromising the integrity of the competition just to show them live.

I suspsect that CTV just doesn't want to sacrifice too much of their other programming for this, so cramming it into one broadcast suits them better. I'd rather see a separate afternoon and evening broadcast with some events live and some taped.

Oh, but wait, the main event isn't even going to be on CTV, it's on TSN:

http://skatecanada.ca/en-us/eventsresults/broadcastschedule.aspx

Last year it was on CTV, wasn't it? This makes it even worse.

Don't know about last year, but last Olympic cycle it was on CBC. I recal quite a bit of it being shown live.
 

colleen o'neill

Medalist
Joined
Nov 3, 2006
;)This is complicated ..That's why I'm making lists , anyway :rolleye: .. CTV had the last Olys.. Since the CTV's new contract came into effect sometime after the last Olys ( 2 yrs ?), it's been thus :

CTV/TSN.. Skate Canada GP and Nationals

CBC ... all other GPs and Worlds

RDS has their own schedule..often pretty good

At Nats ,Skate Canada will live stream the parts not shown on CTV/TSN . In the past, this has included practices and the early segments of the Free Programs for seniors ..plus Junior ( and novice ?) Nats.... at a cost of ;) $19.95 for the season ( sadly for me, I missed challenge coverage)..I think including next year's summer competitions.

Tracy Wilson is on CTV/TSN , and CBC has Carol Lane in her place ( this was true at least for Skate America . I watched the rest of the GP online , because of delayed broadcasts..sometimes really delayed )

Come the olympics, CTV/TSN and CBC will share coverage, but who has what events, who knows...

Don't get too settled though.. CBC's contract will be up in the next couple of years , so more changes may be coming (We'll cross that bridge when we come to it )

I hope I have that right..but my head is spinning..

ETA: I think the network thinking is more about keeping the non- fans entertained and tuned in by only showing them the elite skaters and showing all the finals together. The trouble is ,even from that point of view , it's still sport ...anyone can bomb on any given day, and some really inspiring early performances can get lost in the shuffle.
 

iluvtodd

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 5, 2004
Country
United-States
ETA: I think the network thinking is more about keeping the non- fans entertained and tuned in by only showing them the elite skaters and showing all the finals together. The trouble is ,even from that point of view , it's still sport ...anyone can bomb on any given day, and some really inspiring early performances can get lost in the shuffle.

I hate the concept of splitting up the competitions for this reason!
 

NorthernDancers

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
I really don't understand why there were not better negotiators at Skate Canada when the deals were being made, assuming this ridiculous decision was because of demands from TV. At the heart of any decision should be the integrity of the sport and the best interests of the athletes. Those should be non-negotiable. This splitting of flights I think significantly undermines the integrity of the competition, and therefore the sport. It certainly is not in the best interests of the athletes. I don't understand why those in charge at Skate Canada don't put their foot down on this. There is so much on the line for these athletes, especially in this Olympic year. The idea that the events should be split is really quite silly. There are only 7 teams in Pairs. That's just 2 flights, and both aren't even full. If everyone actually shows up in Dance (I believe there have been some injuries over the season), there aren't enough teams to fill up 3 full flights. I can maybe understand breaking up flights if there were a ton of entries in each event. But at most, even in ladies and men, there are only 3 flights. These are already the elite who qualified out of Challenge. We live in a modern, technologically capable world. There is no reason at all why TV could not accommodate the needs of the competition for those who are invested heavily in being athletes and the avid fans and family, instead of putting the needs of the casual once a year fan first. It's really beyond belief. I don't find the CTV coverage better than CBC at all. With CBC, we could watch the entire event streamed online or on Bold with PJ and friends commentating. For the casual fan, there was the scaled down highlights with the "stars" like Kurt Browning commentating. CTV can broadcast hours upon hours upon hours of curling. You think they could put some effort into figure skating, at least the national championships?

I'm also hoping this is a once only ever situation putting the Novice and Junior events after the Seniors are done. I'm guessing there was a confluence of issues: wanting to celebrate 100 years in Ottawa, the Ottawa 67's sharing the rink with the Senators, timing around 4CC and Olympics. But the Novices and Juniors are going to get royally screwed this year. No participation in the gala. No sense of development from Novice to Senior. No cross-over at all with Senior level athletes and their training habits. Not many Novices or Juniors will be able to take in the Senior events, since they'll be focused on their own training and upcoming competitions. I don't imagine as many people will hang around, since the "big show" will already be done. They are just "also rans" this year. I feel bad for them.
 

Sabrina

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
In previous years Bold TV (part of CBC) had a great coverage, but Bold changed into Cottage TV, with a complete change of style. I wonder which is the channel replacing Bold for extensive transmissions of figure skating programs.
 

NorthernDancers

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
In previous years Bold TV (part of CBC) had a great coverage, but Bold changed into Cottage TV, with a complete change of style. I wonder which is the channel replacing Bold for extensive transmissions of figure skating programs.

Well, the rights belong to CTV right now, and they just spent multi billions of dollars to get the rights to NHL. You'd think they'd find a little space on one of their many CTV/TSN/TSN2 stations to at least match what CBC used to do. I'm not fussy. I don't even need the main network. TSN or TSN2 or even webstreaming (high quality video, though) would work for me. They've broadcast many hours of curling. You'd think skating would rate a little, at least for the Nationals. Right now, they've proven to not care about the athletes or the sport, and definitely not the real fans.
 

hohoho

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Well, the rights belong to CTV right now, and they just spent multi billions of dollars to get the rights to NHL. You'd think they'd find a little space on one of their many CTV/TSN/TSN2 stations to at least match what CBC used to do. I'm not fussy. I don't even need the main network. TSN or TSN2 or even webstreaming (high quality video, though) would work for me. They've broadcast many hours of curling. You'd think skating would rate a little, at least for the Nationals. Right now, they've proven to not care about the athletes or the sport, and definitely not the real fans.

CTV/TSN/TSN2 is owned by Bell Media. Rogers spent billions on NHL rights.
 

Ladskater

~ Figure Skating Is My Passion ~
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
Not sure where this is going, but my cable company is Shaw. I have lost half of my stations because my husband refuses to go with the new digital box. I am sure hoping I will be able to see Nationals via CTV, TSN and perhaps my computer. By the way, CBC will be covering the Olympics from Sochi, thank goodness, should be good.
 

mmcdermott

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
I was wondering what was so important for CTV to be showing on Saturday, that they had to put the senior free programs on TSN. So I checked the TV listings for next Saturday. What's on CTV? NFL Football (both afternoon and evening).

So, they get Skate Canada to change the format to draw in more viewers, but then they put the broadcast on TSN (where such viewers are less likely to find it), so they can show American football on CTV.

During the same timeframe, NBC has the US Figure Skating Championships on (both afternoon and evening). CBC has two hours of alpine and freestyle skiing in the afternoon followed by their usual HNIC in the evening.
 

NorthernDancers

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
I was wondering what was so important for CTV to be showing on Saturday, that they had to put the senior free programs on TSN. So I checked the TV listings for next Saturday. What's on CTV? NFL Football (both afternoon and evening).

So, they get Skate Canada to change the format to draw in more viewers, but then they put the broadcast on TSN (where such viewers are less likely to find it), so they can show American football on CTV.

During the same timeframe, NBC has the US Figure Skating Championships on (both afternoon and evening). CBC has two hours of alpine and freestyle skiing in the afternoon followed by their usual HNIC in the evening.

That's pathetic. Wow. If they are going to put skating on TSN, that's fine. But then they shouldn't mess with the integrity of the competition itself, and have the guts to show the whole thing. All short programs in their entirety, and all free programs in their entirety. They showed more curling than that recently in one weekend, and advertised it like crazy. This is the Canadian championships for goodness sake.
 

xzchief

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 29, 2012
When the cameras arrive, the event stops being a sport and starts being a TV show. It's an entertainment program, just like sitcoms, dramas, newscasts and Canadian Idol. You seem to think Canadian TV networks owe you something. Things don't work that way.

Curling gets more airtime because curling has a bigger audience. This isn't charity. Viewers clearly don't want to watch 10th-placers at the nationals. If they did, they'd get what they wanted.

If Skate Canada gets too mouthy, the networks will drop skating altogether. I suppose Ice Network or some other website could produce a stream but I doubt most people would be happy about it. Figure skating surely has a loyal fanbase. That fanbase just isn't very big. Hence, the decline in coverage.
 

NorthernDancers

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
When the cameras arrive, the event stops being a sport and starts being a TV show. It's an entertainment program, just like sitcoms, dramas, newscasts and Canadian Idol. You seem to think Canadian TV networks owe you something. Things don't work that way.

Curling gets more airtime because curling has a bigger audience. This isn't charity. Viewers clearly don't want to watch 10th-placers at the nationals. If they did, they'd get what they wanted.

If Skate Canada gets too mouthy, the networks will drop skating altogether. I suppose Ice Network or some other website could produce a stream but I doubt most people would be happy about it. Figure skating surely has a loyal fanbase. That fanbase just isn't very big. Hence, the decline in coverage.

I don't think that has to be the case. We don't change the format of any other Olympic sport, or any sport, for the sake of the cameras. We don't wait for the final ends of curling games to make sure TV can show all the finals in one evening. We don't play 2 periods of hockey, and then come back for the final period 6 hours later for the sake of TV. Good negotiators will make sure their sport is protected first. Usually the broadcasters compete to have the rights to broadcast a sport. CTV/TSN won the rights over CBC. I'm pretty sure CBC would have been happy to keep the rights. The problem is that clearly Skate Canada did a lousy job negotiating. This is not a beauty contest or reality TV. This is sport, and should be treated as such.

I also don't think curling is that terribly more popular than figure skating. Curling has been the butt of a lot of jokes over the years as not being a real sport, and really just a social activity that provides an excuse for drinking. There are the hard core fans of the sport, but probably many more that will surf channels and watch because they happen upon it. Depends what else is on TV. If you put skating on TV with good commentary, I'm pretty sure the ratings would be stronger than you're suggesting. Especially with some good promotion. I think skating still is considered by most as one of the marquis events of the Olympic games. I'd say it's more similar to gymnastics in the US. Definitely better than curling. I think curling got a nice bump this year with the introduction of Ron Burgundy. Maybe skating should take a page from that book, and find something that hooks the general public's attention, and then take the opportunity to showcase the sport and athleticism of skating as well as the entertainment/art. There are a lot of sports out there. For me, I think it's not that skating is losing attention so much as there are many more options on which to focus.
 
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