In the history of the Olympics, was anyone robbed? | Page 7 | Golden Skate

In the history of the Olympics, was anyone robbed?

Destiny

Spectator
Joined
Feb 11, 2004
Was anyone robbed

First off, just wanted to say hi all, this is my first post!

I have to say I disagreed with a lot of the judging during the 94 Olympics. I only have the ladies on tape so that is the only one I have been able to see again. However, I clearly remember thinking that T and D should have won Ice Dance. I also felt on the night of the pairs long program that B and E should have won. I love G & G but they had small mistakes.

As for the ladies, that night I really thought that Nancy should have won. I thought she was better technically and I got tired of seeing Oksana stand around on her heels and such. However, almost every time that I have watched that tape again, I much prefer Oksana's program. She skated with great speed and her Lutz was huge. I think she definitely expressed the music and had a spark that could not be ignored. Nancy's performace was of course clean but rather boring. I think what really hurt Nancy was her choice of music and costume. If I'm not mistaken it was a Neil Diamond Medley? Neil Diamond for an Olympic long program? Also, her costume at least on tape looks really bland...bad color choice. I think a different color would have made her stand out more and add a bit of a spark that she didn't really have that night.

SLC...I was lucky enough to be there for the ladies, and I have to say that Irina's skating and presentation looks better in person. I wouldn't have been totally surprised if she had won. Her jumps are sooo impressive. However, the half-loop on the salchow combo looked like a mistake even if it wasn't...just sloppy, then of course her flip. The crowd, as everyone knows, definitely thought Sarah won. She had a lot of in betweens and her jumps did not look cheated in person, in fact I think most of them weren't during that performace. But perhaps more importantly she stood up. Most of the 18 or so other skaters before the final group had a lot of falls and mistakes so the crowd was so happy when Sarah just got through with no mishaps. I think she rightfully won the night, but I am sure the judges felt pressure to give it to her after the pairs fiasco as well.

Also, in Salt Lake in dance I thought the Lithuanians should have medaled.
 

BronzeisGolden

Medalist
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Welcome, Destiny! That was a great post! I actually liked most of the Neil Diamond music in Nancy's program, but a section of the program was also music written for her by a composer (Militano I think?). I didn't like that section. It was generic and borish. He also wrote the music for her short program that she used at the 92 Olympics and 93 Worlds and that was never a personal favorite either. (And maybe he also composed the music for her 94 short as well?)
 

show 42

Arm Chair Skate Fan
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Hi Destiny, welcome to GS....

I think she rightfully won the night, but I am sure the judges felt pressure to give it to her after the pairs fiasco as well.

This was always in the back of my mind as well. As brilliant as Sarah was, the crowd would not have settled for anything less than that. Although she seemed to have won the free skate, how much influence did the crowd really have, considering the problems that were encountered during the pair's competition.....42
 

Destiny

Spectator
Joined
Feb 11, 2004
Sarah and Salt Lake

Thanks for the welcomes!

Show 42 you are absolutely right. The crowd would not have settled for anything other Sarah and gold. The roar from the crowd was unbelievable. If Sarah, had not of won I think there might have been an all out brawl!
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
It appears that Sarah's so-call underrotated jumps wont go away. It is THE NITPICK for Sarah. I can understand that coming from the Irina and Sasha fans. It was going to be Irina's night. Everyone had expected it, even the Kwaniest Kwaniacs reluctantly expected it, and in some corners if Irina were to blow the win, it would be Sasha to grab the gold. Sarah wasn't even considered.

This didn't happen. Sarah did not underrotate her jumps in the 2002 Olys. (Check your tapes.). Her high degree of technical prowess was flawless that night. You can be sure if she underrotated her jumps the judges would have marked her down. The judges didn't. Her marks were high for a skater who skated early in the competition, but there was plenty of room for MK, Irina and Sasha to win. They didn't. Live with it.

I am not a SH fan, and I could write pages of what I think is wrong with her as a skater, but underrotated jumps would not be an issue. She was a fine jumper, and deserved her win.

Joe
 

Verbalgirl77

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Re: Was anyone robbed

Destiny said:
As for the ladies, that night I really thought that Nancy should have won. I thought she was better technically and I got tired of seeing Oksana stand around on her heels and such. However, almost every time that I have watched that tape again, I much prefer Oksana's program. She skated with great speed and her Lutz was huge. I think she definitely expressed the music and had a spark that could not be ignored. Nancy's performace was of course clean but rather boring. I think what really hurt Nancy was her choice of music and costume. If I'm not mistaken it was a Neil Diamond Medley? Neil Diamond for an Olympic long program? Also, her costume at least on tape looks really bland...bad color choice. I think a different color would have made her stand out more and add a bit of a spark that she didn't really have that night.

Well, I agree with you that Nancy should have won, but I also agree that this was my least favorite of Nancy's LPs. I do love the outfit and think it must've looked stunning in person.

As far as spark and boredom goes, IIRC Nancy & Oksana received the same artistic scores (6 5.9's and 3 5.8's) so the judges didn't seem to mind Nancy's program or presentation too much. Those marks are pretty similar to what Kristi's great '92 lp received.
 

BravesSkateFan

Medalist
Joined
Aug 7, 2003
This didn't happen. Sarah did not underrotate her jumps in the 2002 Olys. (Check your tapes.). Her high degree of technical prowess was flawless that night. You can be sure if she underrotated her jumps the judges would have marked her down. The judges didn't. Her marks were high for a skater who skated early in the competition, but there was plenty of room for MK, Irina and Sasha to win. They didn't. Live with it.

While I agree that Sarah did deserve the win that night, I did go back and watch the tapes, and she did underrotate some of her just. The most obvious being the 3 loop in here 3t/3l combonation. But she didn't underrotate all, or even most of her jumps as some people are claiming.
 

icenut84

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Sarah definitely underrotated both the jumps on her 3salchow/3loop combination. I know, because after her performance they showed a slow-motion replay of her feet, while doing this combination. Even if you'd missed the underrotation itself, it was obvious from the tracings on the ice.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
SLC...I was lucky enough to be there for the ladies, and I have to say that Irina's skating and presentation looks better in person. -- destiny
I totally agree with this assessment. I have seen Irina live three times, and of course i have seen her many times on television. Television is not Irina's friend.

I think there are two reasons for this. First, on television the camera follows the skater so it is not easy to judge things like speed and ice coverage which Irina excels at, and which are very apparent in person.

Second, I think Irina is a "below the ankles" skater. Television shots usually don't show the feet very well, and in fact often only show the skater above the waist. Although Irina can do a Biellmann, she is no Sasha Cohen (who is?) when it comes to flexibility, extention and pretty positions of the upper body. So on television, to me, we cannot appreciate Irina's strongest points, while her not-so-strong ones are magnified.

Mathman
 

thvudragon

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Joesitz said:
This didn't happen. Sarah did not underrotate her jumps in the 2002 Olys. (Check your tapes.). Her high degree of technical prowess was flawless that night. You can be sure if she underrotated her jumps the judges would have marked her down. The judges didn't. Her marks were high for a skater who skated early in the competition, but there was plenty of room for MK, Irina and Sasha to win. They didn't. Live with it.
I don't understand how you can believe that she didn't cheat any of her triples. It's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of fact.

http://www.pcpages.com/fsvids01/hughes/3sal.jpg
http://www.pcpages.com/fsvids01/hughes/3loop1.jpg
http://www.pcpages.com/fsvids01/hughes/3lutz.jpg
http://www.pcpages.com/fsvids01/hughes/3flip.jpg

And if those links don't work (You must copy the URL, and then past it in the address line)
http://fsvids01.tripod.com/3sal.jpg
http://fsvids01.tripod.com/3loop1.jpg
http://fsvids01.tripod.com/3lutz.jpg
http://fsvids01.tripod.com/3flip.jpg

These stills show that Sarah did cheat her jumps. Personally, though, I think it's moot as the judges do not get the replay in slow-mo, only real time, but that is negligable. In the debate in if she cheated, or not, she did. Personally, I think it's obvious.

TV

Try copy, pasting the links if they don't work.
 
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mpal2

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Mathman said:
But wait...You can't mean that you don't like the don't like the Meditation intermezzo from Thais! Maybe you didn't like that particular version of it. I didn't either -- too robust for this delicate and etheral tune.

BTW, the context is, our heroine (Thais) is "meditating" on whether she should become a nun or continue as a prostitute. (SPOLIER -- She went with nun.)

Mathman

I'm sorry to say it's true. I don't like Meditation from Thais. ;) My mom had a classical CD she played over & over and that was one of the selections. It was too much for poor little me. :cry:
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
TV, what exaclty is it we are supposed to be seeing in these pictures? I see her foot on the ice, and her skirt and hair are flying. Does this mean that she has already landed without completing the rotation?

Mathman
 

thvudragon

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Mathman said:
TV, what exaclty is it we are supposed to be seeing in these pictures? I see her foot on the ice, and her skirt and hair are flying. Does this mean that she has already landed without completing the rotation?

Mathman
Yes, the freeze frames show the moment that her blade touches the ice on landing (and even later in some, as the frames were not available b/c of the framerate of the vid). Each of the stills show that she cheated her
3sal/3loop
3lutz
3flip

TV
 

hockeyfan228

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Mathman said:
Second, I think Irina is a "below the ankles" skater. Television shots usually don't show the feet very well, and in fact often only show the skater above the waist. Although Irina can do a Biellmann, she is no Sasha Cohen (who is?) when it comes to flexibility, extention and pretty positions of the upper body. So on television, to me, we cannot appreciate Irina's strongest points, while her not-so-strong ones are magnified.

Mathman
Even in school figures, it wasn't just the tracings that determined the score -- otherwise, the skaters could have done their figures without the judges present, and the judges could have marked them without being influenced by reputation, except for Schuba, whose tracings were twice the size of everyone else's. Form, carriage, flow, and free leg position also counted toward the scores. It's the whole body impression that is supposed to be important, not just from the ankles down.

As for your question about the Biellman, judging from the tiny downloads, Pavuk did a quite lovely one at Euros, Sebestyen did a nice one from the donut position, and Timoshenko does beautiful ones to both sides. It takes back strength as well as flexibility to do a beautiful Biellmann, and that doesn't seem to be what Slutskaya has, judging from her spiral positions and some of her other spins.
 

lulu

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 4, 2003
Right now the biggest "robbery" I can think of, although it didn't effect the final results - was the 2 votes of B&E over M&D for the silver medal in 1994.

We can debate G&G vs M&D all day (please let's not:rolleye: ) and while I love Rachmanioff, and thought that program was certainly worthy of a gold medal. I can see how the judges could put G&G over M&D.

But I just don't see how B&E could have been put ahead of M&D.
This is nothing against B&E-I actually enjoyed their LP and it was 100% better than the disaster that was 1992 Olympics:p
But I just cannot see them beating M&D. (Even with only 2 judges)
 

thvudragon

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
lulu said:
But I just don't see how B&E could have been put ahead of M&D.
This is nothing against B&E-I actually enjoyed their LP and it was 100% better than the disaster that was 1992 Olympics:p
But I just cannot see them beating M&D. (Even with only 2 judges)
Who were the US and Australian judges anyway? I'm totally :rolleye: at how they could even find a way to place B&E above M&D.

TV
 

Mevrouw

Rinkside
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
I think that the 1988 Olympics were even worse than the more recent ones. Certainly, the "best skaters" did not win the golds.

Both Liz Manley & Debi Thomas should have finished higher than Witt. I had never understood how she did so well as her SP & FP were way below both Maley & Thomas.

I know, I know - it was the figures and that's how it was then. Witt has always seemed VASTLY overrated.

And I think the wrong Brian won that year too.
 
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