Plushenko changes mind, demands Sochi place | Page 5 | Golden Skate

Plushenko changes mind, demands Sochi place

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
Yes, I was outraged that Menshov didn't get to go to Worlds last year, even if your word "outraged" is a bit too extreme. I strongly felt that Menshov deserved to go.
So, no double standard there. I'm not blindly supporting 1 skater in any situation he's facing, "no matter if it's right or wrong". Can you say the same about yourself? :)
Does your question - and your wrong assumption that I'd have wanted Kovtun for Worlds last year - mean that I'm supposed to "hold a grudge" over a 12 month period, be biased and neglect the fact that Kovtun has become the strongest male skater in Russia within 1 year?
I'm trying to be objective:
- 1 year ago, I was "Team Menshov" because Kovtun finished only 5th at RN and Menshov 3rd. They competed fairly and Menshov won.
- Now I'm "Team Kovtun" because he's won 2 silver medals at GPs, made the GPF, and won the RN. The only direct comparison with Plushy, he won. He's planning a total of 5 quads, and he's pretty successful at them.
Objectivity is awesome. You should try it one day ;)

I get it that you're a Plushy fan and want him to go, and that's perfectly fine. But please don't assume all those who say Kovtun deserves it are die-hard Kovtun fans. I think not many are.

If I want to be honest I don't really want that Plushy goes to Sochi..;) just I don't like if he doesn't get the objectivity from the posters, because he is Plushenko. As I said the Russian Federation never said that the Rus Champion will go to Sochi...the end of the story in this moment..You don't now how will skate Kovtun in ECH. Right? So I don't understand your commitment..And yes, the objectivity is awesome..I would like to see when you practice it.
 

Frenchie

I'm gonna customize the CRAP out of this title!
Medalist
Joined
May 4, 2013
... so now you agree that Kovtun is the better skater with better chances of getting Russia more points.
Until now, you said that it would be Plushenko.
Now, when asked about his achievements compared to Kovtun's skating, you point out how amazing it is that he's even able to skate after his surgery.
Don't get me wrong: I genuinely have the utmost respect for him giving it a try the best he could after all his physical problems. That was amazing.
And that, after all this, he still managed to beat all but one Russian skaters at Nationals is very impressive. But at the end of the day, he got beaten on the ice by this one other Russian skater.

You're right again when you say that Plushenko is a huge star and would make people want to be there live for the Men's and the Team event more if he competed. But would that actually bring in more money? Don't you think that even if it's Kovtun, the event would still be sold out?
Previously, you said Plushy should go because he's the better skater. Now, you say he should go as a reward because he's had to fight so hard to even become the second best Russian skater.
The Russian Federation will have to decide which of those 2 criteria is more important when sending someone to... a sporting event.
 

Frenchie

I'm gonna customize the CRAP out of this title!
Medalist
Joined
May 4, 2013
If I want to be honest I don't really want that Plushy goes to Sochi

Great. Then... what are you arguing about exactly?

About my "commitment and objectivity": read through my objective explanations about my point of view again if you want. If you don't see it the same way, that's ok. But I genuinely don't think that I'm not objective in this. As I told you, I'm not even a huge Kovtun fan. I just believe the better one should get chosen.
 

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
... so now you agree that Kovtun is the better skater with better chances of getting Russia more points.
Until now, you said that it would be Plushenko.
Now, when asked about his achievements compared to Kovtun's skating, you point out how amazing it is that he's even able to skate after his surgery.
Don't get me wrong: I genuinely have the utmost respect for him giving it a try the best he could after all his physical problems. That was amazing.
And that, after all this, he still managed to beat all but one Russian skaters at Nationals is very impressive. But at the end of the day, he got beaten on the ice by this one other Russian skater.

You're right again when you say that Plushenko is a huge star and would make people want to be there live for the Men's and the Team event more if he competed. But would that actually bring in more money? Don't you think that even if it's Kovtun, the event would still be sold out?
Previously, you said Plushy should go because he's the better skater. Now, you say he should go as a reward because he's had to fight so hard to even become the second best Russian skater.
The Russian Federation will have to decide which of those 2 criteria is more important when sending someone to... a sporting event.

You gave to my mouth some words what I never said..:confused: Check it.. I think you love the debate..
I believe we need to finish this controversy and need to wait..has not done nothing that would not have happened with other skaters and other federations.:biggrin: I would like to see when you fight for Mirai , Polina or Kozuka's spots..:laugh: because of the objectivity..
 

mielikki

Rinkside
Joined
Apr 28, 2013
The obvious reason why Ru Fed wants Plushenko for Olympics is the possible gold medal in team event. They believe his status alone can bring points. And they are probably right.

But the team event itself is meant to compare the current common level of each country in all four disciplines.
In fact, Russia has one weak discipline now - men. That is why they have one spot in it. Evgeni is not current competitor, he's more of a guest star in the show.
And now they try to cover the hole in the wall with wallpaper. Looks nice, but can be torn any moment.

All that fuss is mainly because it's their home Olympics and the Fed's officials will be dismissed in no time if they don't provide proper medalling for Mother Russia. In all sports, not only skating. That is the matter of the image. A extremely big money was spent on these Olympics, so the government has to prove it wasn't all in vain. If Russian sportsmen fail in Russian Olympics, politically it means "Putin spent our taxes on our own shame". All Kovtuns an Plushenkos and V\Ts are just pawns in that grand game. Fed has to play very smart.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Plushenko would need to demonstrate publicly and with judges as neutral as possible that he can get a tech score that rivals kovtuns! Kovtun tech score is likely to be much higher than plushenkos but i think kovtuns pcs wouldn't be as bad as plushenkos tech score. Kovtun might be better even in team because of his tech score potential. Plushenko pcs likely won't be good at Olympics because he's not that impressive anymore. In 2010 he was impressive as the most consistent and best jumper in skating.
 

Ptichka

Forum translator
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
The obvious reason why Ru Fed wants Plushenko for Olympics is the possible gold medal in team event. They believe his status alone can bring points. And they are probably right.
I think it's a little more then that. Basically, each contender (Kovtun & Plush) have equally low chances of scoring well at Olympics. However, Plushenko just being there will generate certain amount of publicity and the like. OTOH, there is a whole Tarasova vs. Mishin undertone to this. In the old-old-old days, Tarasova was "in" and Mishin was rather an outsider (which, I believe, he never fully got over) - don't know how this plays now.
 
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
A test skate, closed to the public. How convenient. :p

So how can Kovtun beat that? ISU judging panel versus SEKRET national judging panel. I think I can predict which one will mark more generously. :biggrin:

That is Kovtun's skating under pressure. 17th place in the world.

9th TES, though.

Just for the record, the Japanese Federation published their rules about how to choose the Olympic Team months ago. They have been transparent and Takahashi has earned his Oly spot. The Russian Fed, as usual, hasn't published any specific criteria.

Plushenko and Takahashi's cases aren't similar at all IMO

They were published in advance, yes. But they weren't very specific and gave JSF a lot of leeway to pick the skaters they wanted, regardless of inconvenient results.

But of course the situations aren't similar in that Takahashi has actually competed regularly over the last few seasons and didn't just show up and expect everybody to roll out the red carpet for him. :p
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
Plushenko has competed in 2010,2012, 2013 and 2014 Nationals and on two Euros. He is not Takahashi of course, but he didnt just came on RN 2014 and demanded the red carpet. (he had demanded it earlier :p)
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
24th Tes in the sp for kovtun. 9th Tes in the fs for kovtun. His 2013 worlds was so horrendous! I would never want to see that again! Hopefully he is past doing so horrifically! If he can win euros which he absolutely should and by a big margin it Should settle all doubts about his ability and erase thoughts of him being a horrible comepetitor at big events.
 

ciocio

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 27, 2010
Plushenko said that if he is not ready to go to the Olys he won't go. My question is when will he, or Mishin or the Federation decide if he is ready or not? In the eve of the competition?
The test idea is ridiculous because a test is not a competition. Plushenko can jump 3 quads in the test and nail none at the Olys. Kovtun could also fall short at the Olys but he is Russian Champion and his participation would be legit, especially if he competes at Euros too.
 

Frenchie

I'm gonna customize the CRAP out of this title!
Medalist
Joined
May 4, 2013
Everybody hold the press!
According to RBC Holding, a Russian media conglomerate, Plushenko will not be selected to compete for Russia at the Sochi Winter Olympics. Their justification: It would be "not according to sport principle"
BANG!

Just to explain what happened: They published an article about Ashley Wagner being selected over Mirai Nagasu despite finishing lower than her at US Nationals. They called that
Without actually accusing the judges of promoting a human rights agenda over fair play, the article calls the unprecedented nature of Wagner's selection "not according to sport principal"
That obviously means they feel the same way in the case of Kovtun winning Nationals over Plushenko. :unsure:

Wow, I wonder if someone already told Plushenko that it's over... And Kovtun! He must be so relieved! :laugh:
 

bramweld

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
Plushy is just caught up in his own little bubble right now. He has sacrificed a lot for his sport, with a lot of it maybe leaving him with a sense of entitlement maybe which is understandable. The numerous surgeries he has put himself through maybe adds to the bitter taste he's suffering. Someone who means him well who can handle him needs to pull him aside and help him make the transition away from the sport as graciously as is now possible.
 

Tippi1963

Rinkside
Joined
Sep 9, 2013
This whole article from HuffPost SLAYS me! (thanks to Frenchie for posting)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eliza...mp_b_4592445.html?utm_hp_ref=sports&ir=Sports

- "Pro-gay American Figure Skater Dragged to Sochi"

- Wagner's selection "not according to sport principal," and reveals that Wagner spent the evening after her poor showing at the national championships "drinking wine and watching movies".

- Wagner's place on the team may not win her friends among critics who see her selection as political, fraudulent or essentially anti-Asian

- ...eight inches of verbatim quotes to Wagner's activist "propaganda," it gave her the dubious honor of predicting a "homosexual revolution" in Sochi, a bold proclamation that has not appeared in the English-language press, which is sticking with the young woman's determination to show up in Sochi with rainbow mittens and nail polish.

OMG. When did she give that tirade speech about Russia's anti-gay law? Was she actually wearing the Rainbow Mittens when she pontificated? Oh, and America always sends the white girls to the Olympics, especially in figure skating, except for that time we sent Michelle Kwan, or Mirai Nagasu, or Kristi Yamaguchi, or Debi Thomas, and that little African American girl who won the 2012 Olympic Gymnastics All-Around Championship? What was her name? Gabby Douglas or something? Ooops…

Ya know, maybe Ashley Wagner was drinking wine back stage at Nationals. She just performed a routine that she thought would surely keep her off the 2014 Winter Olympics team and maybe she just needed to wind down a little. But was she swaggering around, drinking from the bottle and going up to the other skaters, in slurred speech saying, "I never liked you! I think you stink! I think your whole family stinks and I think you stink!" (Simpsons reference). No, she wasn't. And if I really wanted to be mean, I'd say that Russian mothers wean their babies by putting vodka in their milk bottles. But I won't say that cuz I'm not mean.
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Everybody hold the press!
According to RBC Holding, a Russian media conglomerate, Plushenko will not be selected to compete for Russia at the Sochi Winter Olympics. Their justification: It would be "not according to sport principle"
BANG!

Just to explain what happened: They published an article about Ashley Wagner being selected over Mirai Nagasu despite finishing lower than her at US Nationals. They called that

That obviously means they feel the same way in the case of Kovtun winning Nationals over Plushenko. :unsure:

Wow, I wonder if someone already told Plushenko that it's over... And Kovtun! He must be so relieved! :laugh:

That's just rich coming from the Russians...and definitely not in a good way. When was the last time Russia picked their single skaters based on anykind of competition results? Um...Kovtun finished 5th at Russian Nationals but was chosen for World over at least 3 other skaters, not counting Plushenko.

To me, the Russian press is trying their best to make sure this "American Civil War" gets nastier and longer hence this timely OPed. They must think that this can potentially shake up Wagner and Edmunds mentally and possibly distract Gold and put undue amount of stress on the American girls and cause them to underperform. Ingenius, not sure it will work however.
 

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Country
Australia
Anyone who wants to call Plushenko arrogant, go have a look at Kovtun's twitter bio.

He's already updated it to say Olympic team member.
 

Panini

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 5, 2013
Anyone who wants to call Plushenko arrogant, go have a look at Kovtun's twitter bio.

He's already updated it to say Olympic team member.

Yikes. He's reminding me of Patrick Chan right around Vancouver, acting like a hot shot before he's actually accomplished anything. Not a good look. Let's hope he lives up to his hype like Chan (eventually) did.
 
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