a question about age...

sk8m8 · Feb 7, 2004

Does anyone believe that the advent of skaters staying olympic eligible has made a shift in the definition of an "old(er) figure skater?

I now see more and more 20 somethings on the ice, holding it together and using maturity to overcome obsticles. I think the face of skating has changed trememdously since skaters are spending more that 4 tp 6 years in elibles before (if ever) turning pro.

I'd like to hear your thoughts in the matter. BTW, go read the ages of many of the European competitors and thier placements...makes MK seem rather "youngish" LOL

Antilles · Feb 7, 2004

I think pairs and ice dancers have always been a little older. Young ones at the top like B&A are rare. I don't think skating was always a teenager's game. We had a shift that way, now it's shifting back a little again.

I do think the money is helping bump up the ages of eligible skaters, Now the top skaters can afford to keep going.

show 42 · Feb 8, 2004

I do enjoy watching the more mature skaters, both men and woman (17 or 18 and up) compete. After all, it is called the "Ladie's and Men's " event. I realize that being a "jumping bean" is "in", but to me it's like a 12 or 13 year old belting out a love song. They may have the voice, but the song is too mature. A young skater may have all the moves technically, but often style, carriage, and musicality hasn't caught up. Maybe the public just enjoys the more "mature" skater? 42

NJSk8Fan · Feb 8, 2004

Very well put, show 42. I agree with your thoughts on this subject.

Joesitz (RIP) · Feb 8, 2004

I really like Ota, Meisner, Taylor and Phanoef but I can wait until they get that maturity and send me off to that special place reserved for so few skaters.

Joe

BravesSkateFan · Feb 9, 2004

yes I agree. The top six ladies at US Nationals were all 18 or older. The top 3 at Worlds last year were all in thier 20's . I think the trend is defintely headed towards older skaters. I'm using ladies as the example since they have traditionally been the youngest as far as top tier skaters go.
I often wonder how much Michelle Kwan has influenced this trend? I mean pre 98 pretty much everyone went through the Olympic cycle and then after 1 or 2 olympics went pro. Michelle is a very successful skater, and yet she has chosen to stay eligible and compete even after winning 2 olympic medals and 5 world championships.
Personally I think its a good thing. I love it when skaters stick around for a long time.

sk8er1964 · Feb 9, 2004

BravesSkateFan said:
....I often wonder how much Michelle Kwan has influenced this trend? I mean pre 98 pretty much everyone went through the Olympic cycle and then after 1 or 2 olympics went pro. Michelle is a very successful skater, and yet she has chosen to stay eligible and compete even after winning 2 olympic medals and 5 world championships.
Personally I think its a good thing. I love it when skaters stick around for a long time.

Eligible skaters are now allowed to make $ in endorsements, etc, which means that they don't have to turn pro in order to make a living. In the old days, you turned pro after your first Olympics so that you could cash in on your success.

BravesSkateFan · Feb 9, 2004

Yeah that's true. I didn't even think about that. I'm sure that has a great deal to do with it. Thanks for pointing it out.

Evdokia · Feb 11, 2004

I really like the fact that skaters can stay eligible for a longer time nowadays. There are lots of skaters, which develop/learn to fullfill their potential rather late and they would not have been able to do so without that.

Matt · Feb 11, 2004

I think a perfect example of this is Elena Liashenko. She had a pretty successful time in the mid-90's, still stayed in the competition loop with modest performances, and now with the CoP and at the age of 27, is IMHO skating the best I have ever seen her skate.

I think it's wonderful

berthes ghost · Feb 11, 2004

Eligible skaters are now allowed to make $ in endorsements, etc, which means that they don't have to turn pro in order to make a living. In the old days, you turned pro after your first Olympics so that you could cash in on your success.

One could make endorsement deals starting as early as 92-93. Nancy had big $ endorsements with Seiko and Disney all through Prague and Lillehammer.

The ability to make big bucks while eligable didn't deter Oksana, Tara, Ilia, etc... from turning pro as soon as Oly gold was around thier necks, so the question about Kwan's possible influence is a valid one and has nothing to do with what happened "in the old days".

Ladskater · Feb 11, 2004

sk8m8:

Interesting question and points. Years ago some of the European & Russian skaters stayed in the eligible ranks longer and they were in the "older" category. It was mostly because they were funded by their countries to keep training. Unfortunately, on this side of the water our skaters have always had to pay for their training and for their travels therefore skaters could not afford to "hang" around for long once they made it to the top. They usually had to move on for financial reasons - pay mom and dad back for all those skating lessons! Now of course, the skaters can earn money from skating so this has changed things drastically for the skaters. They now can afford to compete in the amateur ranks longer. However, even today, skaters are sometimes forced to move on because of injury - "the spirit is willing, but the body is not." So the youngsters will still always have the advantage.

icestar · Feb 11, 2004

it's the money

sk8ter1964, got it right it is the fact that even a non-top ranked skater can make money skating in the grand prix events and such. Back before the early 90's all the money was in Pro skating and tours, the ISU realized this and the saw how skaters were leaving the competitive scene and that prompted them to up the prize money in amatuer skating. Now skaters can afford to keep training and competing.

Ogre Mage · Feb 13, 2004

Age

The trend toward younger skaters began, I think with Oksana Baiul. Everyone was amazed how mature she was at such a young age. Suddenly, little pre-teen phenoms were popping up everywhere. This seemed to reach its zenith with Tara Lipinski's wins in 1997 and 1998.

But now, the pendulum seems to have swung back to favoring older skaters. One major part in the reversal was, I think, Maria Butyrskaya's 1999 Worlds win at the age of 26. She showed older skaters could compete, too.

Michelle Kwan, interestingly, started out as a part of the "baby ballerina" trend, winning her first worlds at the age of 15. But because of her amazing longevity in the sport, she also showed that older skaters could complete. She represents both sides of the equation. Irina Slutskaya, who wasn't that great as a teenager but reinvented herself and won her first worlds at the age of 22, may have been a factor as well.

The other factor in the trend toward older skaters may be the problems that Baiul and Lipinski had in the wake of their Olympic victories. I think some people thought it may have been "too much, too soon."

Nadine · Feb 17, 2004

Hmm... (interesting responses)

I don't necessarily think that it has to be an issue of black or white.......one is not mutually exclusive of the other........ONE can possess both (i.e. maturity & superb presentation) at a young age, but it's more the exception rather than the rule (aka Oksana Baiul). Then again, some never attain either ~ it's all about perception.

As regards this supposed new trend toward the 'older skater'......lots of factors......one being the incentive of more $$$ being offered in the eligible world since the whack heard round the world. However, that may be changing now that skating is no longer as popular as it once was.....therefore less revenue......and less prize money being offered. Thus, we may actually see a trend toward the olden days where one turned pro as soon as s/he fulfilled his goal(s) in the eligible world (aka making the Olympic Team, World Team, etc.). We shall see...

***Note: must confess it does feel good to see the old warhorses staying in & doing good. Likewise, it also feels good to see young phenoms arise. And lastly, I'm always on the lookout for that once-in-a--lifetime skater that has it all @ a young age.....blazes in & takes the world by storm.....and then blazes out while leaving everyone else in his/her dust (lol).***

Peace & Love, Nadine

"It's not enough to speak, but to speak true." - Shakespeare

Enero · Feb 18, 2004

I think most skaters are sticking around longer because of the money to be made, as well as the desire to have the ultimate win (OGM, Worlds). Of course, many of these athletes may still enjoy competing, which would explain why they're remaining eligible. However, I think these decisions are in large part driven my the possible financial and competitive rewards.

merrywidow · Feb 18, 2004

I'd like to point out that there have always been "older" skaters winning Worlds & Olympics. The Protopopovs, IIRC, were in their late 20's-early 30's when winning Pair championships back in the mid-60's. Katarina Witt was 22 when she won her 2nd Olympic gold medal, Scott Hamilton was 26, Boitano was 24, Orser was 26 when he won his 2nd Olympic silver medal. Paul Wylie was 27 in '92.
I remember an interview (I believe it was given by Linda Fratianne) in which it was said that it was much easier as a young teen to learn & and do the triple jumps than after the body changes from girl to woman. Notice how many of the recent successful young girls have not been able to continue on into their 20's either because of injuries or body changes. The quads in mens is beginning to take its toll as well on the "Quad" stars.

jesslily · Feb 18, 2004

Eligible skaters have their choice staying as long as they want, for the love of competitive skating or financial rewards. Many of them were/are home schooled most of their school life. They sacrificed their social life. Their parents spent a big fortune to support the skaters to realize the dreams. At the end they deserve and need the financial security.

berthes ghost · Feb 19, 2004

It's not fashion, I don't think there are "trends" toward older or younger skaters.

Yes, there have always been older skaters, and there have always been younger skaters. Carol Heiss went to her first worlds at 13 and placed 4th, back when figures suposidly kept one back and before triples suposidly propelled jumping beans foward. Tara is the youngest world and oly champ, breaking a SEVENTY year old record! Sonja is still the youngest to ever have competed in the Olys (age 11 in 1924). Scott Allen is the youngest to have medaled in the Olys (13 in 1964).

Apparently, the medals go to the better skaters, regardless of age or "trends".

Joesitz (RIP) · Feb 19, 2004

I don't think age is a factor when considering the tricks in competition, nor do I believe it is a factor when the youngster imitates the poses of grownups. Winning competitions is not surprising when there is no pressure.

An older gal, if she really is a good skater, can give you much more than cuteness.

Just my take on the aging skater.

Joe

a question about age...

sk8m8

Antilles

show 42

Arm Chair Skate Fan

NJSk8Fan

Joesitz (RIP)

BravesSkateFan

sk8er1964

BravesSkateFan

Evdokia

Matt

berthes ghost

Ladskater

~ Figure Skating Is My Passion ~

icestar

Ogre Mage

Nadine

Enero

merrywidow

jesslily

berthes ghost

Joesitz (RIP)

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