Will Mirai Appeal Decision for Olympic Team?

drivingmissdaisy · Jan 12, 2014

It's frustrating to read some of you saying "Nationals placements don't matter" or "the committee is going to do whatever they want." Coming in to the event, we knew two spots were set although it wasn't "official": D&W and Ashley. Ashley didn't medal, but her spot was set, so there were two spots up for grabs. Those two spots went to the highest finishers AT NATIONALS. The rest of the teams were made solely on the results OF NATIONALS. Of the 10 spots, 9 were set based solely on the results OF NATIONALS. That's 90%.

I understand why Mirai fans are upset but the process isn't objectively unfair or arbitrary. My hope is that, in the future, if the USFSA knows a spot is set they should announce it before the event so the competitors know when the final results come in whether they made the team.

Icey · Jan 12, 2014

The selection committee is obviously not even applying its own publicly stated selection criteria even handedly as someone has pointed out. Mirai needs to ge a lawyer to draft her appeal. Will Jason be replaced by Max? Sorry, I don't know their records very well.

burntBREAD · Jan 12, 2014

What "public outburst"? She told Johnny Weir on the phone (in a private conversation) and this was relayed to NBC. There's no "sore loser" or "crying" as far as we can see so far. And I think your depictions of the JSF and Japanese culture are pretty :slink:

. antiquated, almost stereotypical.

louisa05 · Jan 12, 2014

drivingmissdaisy said:
It's frustrating to read some of you saying "Nationals placements don't matter" or "the committee is going to do whatever they want." Coming in to the event, we knew two spots were set although it wasn't "official": D&W and Ashley. Ashley didn't medal, but her spot was set, so there were two spots up for grabs. Those two spots went to the highest finishers AT NATIONALS. The rest of the teams were made solely on the results OF NATIONALS. Of the 10 spots, 9 were set based solely on the results OF NATIONALS. That's 90%.

I understand why Mirai fans are upset but the process isn't objectively unfair or arbitrary. My hope is that, in the future, if the USFSA knows a spot is set they should announce it before the event so the competitors know when the final results come in whether they made the team.

It wasn't completely set, so they can't really do that. The rules say that only the top 5 finishers at Nats are to be considered by the selection committee. So if D/W or Ashley had finished out of hte top 5, they would be staying home. What USFSA needs to do is communicate to NBC and media outlets that there is a process and ask them to report the criteria. With the exception of one article at nbcnews.com, most media outlets are making the selection process sound vague when it is not.

As for Jason vs. Max...this season's GP results are high on the list of criteria and Jason beats Max there (3/5 vs 3/7). And, of course, the first competition on the list is Nationals. If Max had made the top 6 at Worlds last year, he may have had a better chance at jumping over him.

anthologyz · Jan 12, 2014

burntBREAD said:
What "public outburst"? She told Johnny Weir on the phone (in a private conversation) and this was relayed to NBC. There's no "sore loser" or "crying" as far as we can see so far. And I think your depictions of the JSF and Japanese culture are pretty . antiquated, almost stereotypical.

agree x1000. i don't see how mirai potentially filing an appeal shows a "disrespect" for authority, nor do i think these frankly orientalist ideas about "japanese culture" are relevant to this discussion. because letting a federation do whatever it wants is fair and just? this is a question of accountability and transparency. to me, mirai's performances at this championship showed that she's putting in the work and delivered when it counted most. that has GOT to count for something, otherwise what is the point of even holding the championship?

leafygreens · Jan 12, 2014

Icey said:
The selection committee is obviously not even applying its own publicly stated selection criteria even handedly as someone has pointed out. Mirai needs to ge a lawyer to draft her appeal. Will Jason be replaced by Max? Sorry, I don't know their records very well.

Denney/Coughlin should also file an appeal. I would love to see the USFS explanation on that one. "We used the criteria to select Ashley but not you, because..."

Amei · Jan 12, 2014

cheerio2 said:
So placing 4th at the Olympics in a very tough field that included Yuna, Mao, Caro, Rochette, and Ando at their primes means nothing? Prior Olympics experience is very valuable, yet it seems to mean nothing to USFSA? I would be very surprised if Ashley can place 4th at this Olympics.

While I completely support your points, I take exception to saying something that happened 4 years ago should be what pushes someone over another, just like I disagree with a competition from earlier in the season preventing someone from going.

coolboogie22 · Jan 12, 2014

Ashley Wagner you have a bad sportsmanship, you should have accept your fate and that you were defeat at theses nationals. Each of theses athletes have train so hard to be ready at nationals, I can believe that the USFS break the dream of Mirai Nagasu, we know her history and that she struggles the past year but this season, we have see a completely different Mirai who has work hard to regain her jumps and joy of skating. Mirai have show that she want to be at Sochi and deserve to be here with thoses wonderful performance that she did!

Funny how the USFS doesn't pick Max Aaron instead of Jason Brown for Sochi. Why doing a favor for Ashley and not for Max Aaron. Shame on you!!! USFS Mirai Nagasu needs to be name for the Olympic team!

Mathman · Jan 12, 2014

Icey said:
Mirai needs to ge a lawyer to draft her appeal.

To whom would Mirai's lawyer present this appeal? The United States Olympic Committee? The International Court of Appeal for Sport? Mrs. St. Peter?

cheerio2 · Jan 12, 2014

Amei said:
While I completely support your points, I take exception to saying something that happened 4 years ago should be what pushes someone over another, just like I disagree with a competition from earlier in the season preventing someone from going.

I don't think it should be what pushes someone over another. What pushes Mirai over (IMO) was her performance at Nationals, which was much better than Ashley's. I think past Olympics experience is a meaningful factor, though, in showing that the athlete has the ability to handle the pressure of an Olympics and can turn it on when it counts.

Layfan · Jan 12, 2014

What's the big deal with Mirai making her objection official? It seems like a perfectly respectful way of getting her position on the record, even though she probably knows that she has little chance of prevailing.

She probably feels she has to do this out of self-respect. Who else is going to stand up for her if not herself?

Mathman · Jan 12, 2014

coolboogie22 said:
Ashley Wagner you have a bad sportsmanship…

Ashley didn't select the Olympic team.

Layfan · Jan 12, 2014

:thumbsup:

Mathman said:
Ashley didn't select the Olympic team.

leafygreens · Jan 12, 2014

cheerio2 said:
I don't think it should be what pushes someone over another. What pushes Mirai over (IMO) was her performance at Nationals, which was much better than Ashley's. I think past Olympics experience is a meaningful factor, though, in showing that the athlete has the ability to handle the pressure of an Olympics and can turn it on when it counts.

IMO, USFSA opened that can of worms by allowing *any* past competitions to be considered. Naturally people are going to bring up Mirai's Olympic finish, which was the pinnacle of her career. The closest Ashley got to anything like that, was 4th at worlds two years ago, which is also outside the one-year window used for consideration.

In any case, I would rank Ashley and Mirai's accomplishments as almost equal, with Polina the one who should have been on the chopping block.

Orange Cat · Jan 12, 2014

leafygreens said:
Denney/Coughlin should also file an appeal. I would love to see the USFS explanation on that one. "We used the criteria to select Ashley but not you, because..."

THIS. I find the lack of clarity and consistency in the selection of the US Olympics team incredibly frustrating.

FlattFan · Jan 12, 2014

She should go straight to court. During discoveries, her lawyer can demand certain information from the US Fed. We see a lot of "messages" sent to the skaters these past few days. I am certain a good lawyer can pull that information out of the US fed and the judging panel. Imagine that!

US committee will settle quickly. No doubt about it. No one wants to go into depth why certain skaters are promoted and certain are not. Use Agnes as an example.

No dumb judges will stick their neck out for us fed when penalty of perjury is looming over their head.

lavender · Jan 12, 2014

leafygreens said:
IMO, USFSA opened that can of worms by allowing *any* past competitions to be considered. Naturally people are going to bring up Mirai's Olympic finish, which was the pinnacle of her career. The closest Ashley got to anything like that, was 4th at worlds two years ago, which is also outside the one-year window used for consideration.

In any case, I would rank Ashley and Mirai's accomplishments as almost equal, with Polina the one who should have been on the chopping block.

I agree. This appeal, if Mirai puts it through will probably be aimed at Polina. I'm no Ashley fan but Max is no Ashley so why would they put him over the consistent and beloved Jason.

Poodlepal · Jan 12, 2014

They have to set the criteria in writing. I am a teacher, and I go through this type of thing rather often. If you take a point off of a 10 pt. essay, you must justify it. If you give an award at graduation to anyone but the one with the highest average, be prepared to defend yourself.

It sounds like the judges said, OK, we'll judge this competition, then name who we want to the team. That's their right, but why should we assume that athletes who stand to lose serious money and endorsements or whatever should take it better than a kid who doesn't get a paper certificate the last day of school? Or if they don't, that it shows some horrible attitude?

They need to put in writing who exactly is eligible to bump. A GPF medalist from that year? A former national champion? A world medalist from three years ago? A previous Olympian? The squeakiest wheel with the loudest lawyer? The best looking person who's most likely to become famous after skating? I'm being a little sarcastic here, but they are not consistent. Johnny W. didn't bump anyone in the late 00's when he skated poorly. Michelle was allowed to bump Emily Hughes when she hadn't even skated in public all year (later she was too hurt and Emily went anyway). Sasha didn't bump anyone in 2010, and she was a multiple World medalist and silver medalist.

Ashley is about equal to Johnny Weir--doing well on the GPF, but not so good at Worlds. So it isn't consistent, and Mirai is owed an explanation. Not an ugly confrontation or scene of some sort, but they should sit down with her and explain it calmly.

coolboogie22 · Jan 12, 2014

Mathman said:
Ashley didn't select the Olympic team.

Maybe, but if Ashley would have great sportsmanship, she would have accept that she was defeat (4th place) and decline the spot for the Olympic and saying that she doesn't deserve it and that she accept that the top 3 skaters who have earn it fair and square gets their spot!

She didn't do this, so I have the right to think that she have bad sportsmanship.

demarinis5 · Jan 12, 2014

Mathman said:
The thing is, what is Mirai going to say, and who is she going to say it to?

"Dear selection committee: I think you should have sent me instead of Ashley."

"Dear Mirai: No, we think we did right by sending Ashley. Thanks for your interest in United States Figure Skating."

I don't know what Mirai is going to say in her appeal but at the press conference announcing the Men Olympic Team that I watched on IN (this is not verbatim)
Phil Hersch asked about Mirai's appeal he was told that the USFSA has not received an appeal yet but that Mirai has a right to appeal to the the grievance
committee and request an expedited hearing given the circumstance where she is appealing the decision to leave her off the Olympic team. Lots of questions
were being asked by the reporters but all of sudden they cut off the live feed to the press conference and went to Tanith and Michael Weiss who said
nothing about Mirai's appeal and talked briefly about the team members who were named.

Will Mirai Appeal Decision for Olympic Team?

drivingmissdaisy

Icey

burntBREAD

louisa05

anthologyz

leafygreens

Amei

coolboogie22

Match Penalty

Mathman

cheerio2

Layfan

Mathman

Layfan

leafygreens

Orange Cat

FlattFan

Match Penalty

lavender

Poodlepal

coolboogie22

Match Penalty

demarinis5

Gold for the Winter Prince!

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