# Thread: Some CoP questions: spur of the moment jumps

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## Some CoP questions: spur of the moment jumps

1. If you try a triple jump but only double it, can you throw in another (unscheduled) attempt later without it counting toward a possible Zayak violation?

2. If you have a triple jump planned but for some reason you panic and skate right through it, does that count against how many "jumping passes" you can do in all?

3. What about the short program? If you plan, say, a triple Lutz-double toe as your required combination, but only do the Lutz, can you count that as your stand-alone triple jump and do another combination later?

Mathman

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## Re: Some CoP questions: spur of the moment jumps

Originally posted by Mathman
[B]1. If you try a triple jump but only double it, can you throw in another (unscheduled) attempt later without it counting toward a possible Zayak violation?
If the first one was a double, it won't be a Zayak violation.

But the Code of Points limits the number of jumping passes allowed, 7 for ladies and 8 for men, and also allows a specific number of combinations or sequences, so if an unscheduled jump brings the total higher than that limit, at least one of them would end up getting no credit.

2. If you have a triple jump planned but for some reason you panic and skate right through it, does that count against how many "jumping passes" you can do in all?
If there's no visible attempt at the jump and the caller doesn't recognize it as a jump attempt and call it as such, it wouldn't be counted as a jump.

If you panic or whatever during or after the takeoff and end up with, say, an ugly half revolution and two-foot landing, it'll still count as a jump attempt but it would be worth next to nothing.

3. What about the short program? If you plan, say, a triple Lutz-double toe as your required combination, but only do the Lutz, can you count that as your stand-alone triple jump and do another combination later?
Yes, but remember the solo jump is required to be preceded by footwork or other skating moves. If there was nothing like that before the lutz, the deduction will be almost as significant as not doing the combination, so it's probably not worth the skater's while to change the program, especially if trying a combination later is likely to lead to an error there as well.

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gkelly - Thanks for the explanation of Mathman's questions. I'm just wondering if some judges understand what you do.

BTW, in the GPFinal with Plush doing 3 combos. Was there a deduction of the third combo or was it just no mark?

If it was just a no mark, then Sandhu won over him anyway. Am I correct?

Joe

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Sandhu's total score was 152.74; Plushenko's was 146.94. Difference, 5.8.

A triple axel is worth 7.5.

So if Plushenko had gotten credit for the axel without the second jump, and no pluses or minuses, he would have made up the difference and won.

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Originally posted by Joesitz
gkelly - Thanks for the explanation of Mathman's questions. I'm just wondering if some judges understand what you do.
The beauty of CoP is that the judges do not have to undertand it. All they do is judge each element as they see it. The coputer takes care of what to count and what not to.

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That's true only for the TES part of the score. IMO the TCS has been the biggest source of inconsistent judging throughout the GP. There were some really ridiculous manipulation going on in scoaring TCS that didn't make any sense. I'm just hoping that ithis inconsistency was only due to the immaturity of the system and that one day reputation in skating will no longer matter AT ALL under CoP.

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Pitchka - I am sure everyone has full faith and trust in the workings of the CoP but we can't avoid the possible hanky panky that can and will go on. It's not the marks so much if the random drawing gets rid of the highs and lows. That will help.

Joe

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Originally posted by Joesitz
I am sure everyone has full faith and trust in the workings of the CoP....
Snort! What planet are *you* on?

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