It's been 4 senior seasons already and they still can't compete together so maybe a split would be best.
Ice Dance FD - 2014 European Championships
- Thread starter sky_fly20
- Start date
It's been 4 senior seasons already and they still can't compete together so maybe a split would be best.
- Joined
- May 4, 2013
Seriously, if they finish outside the top ten in Sochi (after just winning the silver medal at EC, 1.1 points away from Gold), you'll have my blessing to get off your meds. But until then... Your meds, gmyers! Don't forget your meds!
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2011
The medication I'm on just knocks me out so I missed this live. Bless you Mao, as always you come to the rescue. Just some off-the-cuff thoughts before I have to take the next dose...
Haven't watched them all yet, but something I noticed. For all of the Russian teams there seems to be a small contingent of "applauders/clappers." They're like the skating equivalent of professional Sicilian widow mourners. I found it very annoying.
I'm glad that Coomes & Buckland won the bronze because, like all cynics, I have a Secret Sentimental Side, but let's not kid ourselves: that's a 'career longevity' award. Skating to the Michael Jackson In A Blender Mix...oy! And his costume is just Knockoff City.
I don't think Sinitsina & Zhiganshin have a style yet, but what they're doing is kinds interesting in a weird way: a mad scientist grafting of Marlie athleticism with Russian emotionalism, with the two sides battling it out for supremacy. Too bad the ending just completely fizzled out. But I give them credit for one thing: unlike R/T, they did not bore. And that is the cardinal rule for ALL entertainers: Thou Shalt Not Bore The Audience.
I actually liked Hurtado and Diaz's program better last year, although this year's performance was certainly technically better (fall notwithstanding--so to speak!). They could use more speed, but their vision and originality are the very opposite of Thou Shalt Not Bore.
How the *** did Guignard and Fabbri get ahead of them (and Tobias & Stagiunas, who are always entertaining enough that you wish they just had more technical ability)? Tis a mystery to me.
Haven't watched them all yet, but something I noticed. For all of the Russian teams there seems to be a small contingent of "applauders/clappers." They're like the skating equivalent of professional Sicilian widow mourners. I found it very annoying.
I'm glad that Coomes & Buckland won the bronze because, like all cynics, I have a Secret Sentimental Side, but let's not kid ourselves: that's a 'career longevity' award. Skating to the Michael Jackson In A Blender Mix...oy! And his costume is just Knockoff City.
I don't think Sinitsina & Zhiganshin have a style yet, but what they're doing is kinds interesting in a weird way: a mad scientist grafting of Marlie athleticism with Russian emotionalism, with the two sides battling it out for supremacy. Too bad the ending just completely fizzled out. But I give them credit for one thing: unlike R/T, they did not bore. And that is the cardinal rule for ALL entertainers: Thou Shalt Not Bore The Audience.
I actually liked Hurtado and Diaz's program better last year, although this year's performance was certainly technically better (fall notwithstanding--so to speak!). They could use more speed, but their vision and originality are the very opposite of Thou Shalt Not Bore.
How the *** did Guignard and Fabbri get ahead of them (and Tobias & Stagiunas, who are always entertaining enough that you wish they just had more technical ability)? Tis a mystery to me.
The silver means nothing. P/b and b/s weren't there. So at best there are 3 euro teams better than them and 4 to 6 North American teams better than them. 3 euro teams, 3 American team, 3 Canadian teams. That already has I/k in 10th and with their likely mistakes would put them outside the top 10. They were barely top 10 in 2013 worlds. So check your facts they are barely top 10 and with them bombing worse and worse and worse they'd be lucky to be top 10 in Sochi.
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2011
First off, do not underestimate the Home Field Advantage. I'm not talking about Home Cooked Scoring, but the emotional boost you can get competing at home. Some prior examples: the US hockey team at Lake Placid, both US gymnastics teams at the Atlanta games, all the medals worn by Brits in London, etc etc etc. There was only a small contingent of apparently-professional Russian audience members here, but imagine what an arena full of them can do in terms of boosting audience reaction. And that boost can have a magical effect on performance. Interesting, that.
Second, the primary problem with I//K seems to be one of mood. If it were me, I wouldn't send them to a sports psychologist. I'd send them to a good cognitive psychologist. I think it could do wonders for them. I found the way both her partner and Morozov treated her after that performance was telling: like she was made of glass. I don't know about you, but red flags went shooting up in my head as I watched it.
Third, it's the Olympics. Anything can happen. Alexi Urmanov. Sarah Hughes. Need I say more?
:agree:
On sports.ru is an article that for the Olimpics B/S will do their last year's free program,
http://www.sports.ru/others/figure-skating/155874746.html (in russian)
Elena is fragile in many respects, both physically and psychologically. Zhulin said this from the beginning. So the pressure that has been heaped on them is not appropriate. They need to get away from it all. They are too masterful a team to split up. But they need something. My dream would be that they work with Angelica. She works her teams hard but she also seems to set realistic goals and establishes a friendly environment. Elena and Nikita will have none of these if they remain in Russia and with Morozov. They need to get her away from him. The man (too kind of a term) has needlessly taken advantage of fragile teenager. Where is the Federation when they need to protect their own skaters? My goodness, where is her father? Lesser men would have obliterated Morozov already! I just sense that the atmosphere around her is not the best.
Forgive me folks but I just needed to vent, couldn't keep it in any longer.
Forgive me folks but I just needed to vent, couldn't keep it in any longer.
1. Moscow worlds was very bad for I/k. People then blamed it on it was their first senior worlds. But it was at home! They didn't know Moscow?
2. Well that couldn't possibly be fixed by Sochi! Maybe keeping them out would be beneficial for their mental state.
3. I don't think they could Urmanov or Hughes their way to bronze mainly Because of 2. They just don't work welll together.
It all stems from their beginnings. People praised them too much and expected too much. They did not live up to expectations naturally. Then worst of all two young immature kids were labelled as hopelessly lazy sloths by Zhulin no less. Then at every opportunity given he never lets people forget what a disappointment they are to him. Because of these reasons I sense they almost always struggle with their nerves, especially in Russia. Stavisky let it slip also this year that in their first season with Zhulin Nikita's back was always in pain but we forget that. Further considering how Zhulin has managed B/S this season I can understand I/K wanting a less volatile calmer atmosphere where they could just focus on improving. Shindler's List and TEB this year provide perfect proof that these two are perfectly suited for each other. I just feel they need a much better mentor than Morozov. All of this may be way too much for Elena to handle. She may talk tough at times, but those closest to her may realize that this is not really the case.
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2011
Perhaps it can't be fixed by Sochi, but then I'm probably not quite as black and white about all this as you seem to be. I do think they have genuine talent and frankly as an audience member I care much more about seeing interesting well-executed programs than who wins. So I wish them well.
The success predicted for them happened to the Shibutani's. That was a major part of their debut season. Seeing a team surpass them who they beat as jrs just months before. The issue of the expectation is not something that was wrong or incorrect but their seemed to be an idea that they would strive to fulfill the potential. If Zhulin was unstable and Amodio left Morozov because that was unstable for him and Elena has nerves and is emotionally fragile than maybe all the moving is bad and she needs to leave. But she also started a personal romantic relationship with Morozov and stayed after their awful 2013 worlds where they were at the bottom of TES in the FD. This could be a case of personal issues becoming so involved with sport that everything has been ruined and is awful explaining the EUros disaster. They have so much to do if they want to continue in the sport like be professional, work hard, go to good coaches, don't be convince to do a Ghost FD.
They have genuine talent! But there are other avenues to be talented in figure skating and ice dance then competitive situations. If they can't do competitions than become a Pro. Them being talented but unable to deliver and seemingly not that interested is awful. But they can leave the competitive arena.
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
How on earth would denying them from going to the Olympics be BENEFICIAL to their mental state?
That must be one of the most ludicrous notions ever.They messed up but otherwise skated the program well. They earned their place in Sochi and placed well ahead of R/T who you are suggesting should replace them for some inexplicable reason. You're showing a lot of hostility towards this team, like they stole your kid or something. Maybe you and sky_fly should start a club of super haters.
How on earth would denying them from going to the Olympics be BENEFICIAL to their mental state?
They messed up but otherwise skated the program well. They earned their place in Sochi and placed well ahead of R/T who you are suggesting should replace them for some inexplicable reason. You're showing a lot of hostility towards this team, like they stole your kid or something. Maybe you and sky_fly should start a club of super haters.
If their routine bombing of major events like their first GP and Russian nationals and Euros is because they think they have to win or medal in Sochi because of great expectation than just taking them out of Sochi and removing that entirely from their mindset might be a good thing for them. Because they know when they began 4 years ago in Seniors they were being predicted for potential gold by Russia analyst like DW and VM went from jrs to Olympic gold and silver in one quad basically. R/T and S/Z skated much much better than I/K at Euros. Both of those teams didn't embarrass themselves.
This is not super hater stuff. This is about recognizing that this team flat out does not have what it takes at all.
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
I'm pretty sure I/K aren't expecting to win in Sochi and I don't see why they shouldn't try for bronze. And denying them the chance to go would be far more demoralizing than any poor result.
Yes, you saying skaters who are trying to do well should retire and essentially all but saying they s.uck IS haterade.
Yes, you saying skaters who are trying to do well should retire and essentially all but saying they s.uck IS haterade.
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2013
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Engaging in a little topic drift here... but the current one has been about beaten to death, so I hope you won't mind.
It's odd to see a beautiful Russian dance team who don't compete well. When I first fell in love with the sport Russian pairs and dance teams were practically perfect every time out of the gate. They were AWESOME competitors; they came to win and they did, and I was always a little jealous of that... I was much more nationalistic in my younger days... USA, USA, USA!
I can't even hope to tally up all the Americans who were wonderful skaters, but just didn't have the heart of a competitor. I don't remember any Russian/Soviet skaters before who had this problem.
It's odd to see a beautiful Russian dance team who don't compete well. When I first fell in love with the sport Russian pairs and dance teams were practically perfect every time out of the gate. They were AWESOME competitors; they came to win and they did, and I was always a little jealous of that... I was much more nationalistic in my younger days... USA, USA, USA!
I can't even hope to tally up all the Americans who were wonderful skaters, but just didn't have the heart of a competitor. I don't remember any Russian/Soviet skaters before who had this problem.
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