CoP: Presentation vs. Difficulty

CoP: presentation vs. difficulty

I was watching some old programs earlier this week, and noticed many of the beautiful moves that skaters have done. Many of these moves are considered easir than others, but yet they are moves that add to the beauty of the program, or that relate well to the music. Take for example these moves...
pic 1
pic 2

what I see happeing with the CoP is a loss of these types of moves. I mean why should Michelle do that beautiful catch foot sprial if it's only going to downgrade her sprial sequence? It certanly won't up her component scores enough to make up for the loss of points. So out goes these moves, no matter how beautiful they are, no matter how much the relate to the music. I've already seen it this year. Sasha removed her skid spiral at the end of her sequence to help up her scores. I thought it was a nice move for her more dramatic programs, but becuase of the CoP, we won't be seing moves like this.
Do you think there is a way around this? Can the ISU come up with a way to reward difficulty, while still allowing the less difficult moves to be intergrated?

Both those pictures show flexibility. They also show a flare for acrobatics, something one finds in Circe du Soleil. I think finding these moves beautiful is in the viewer's eyes. no extra points, for me.


If the first one is Sasha. I believe her 'Open Fan" which makes a rotation on the ice at the end of it, is really remarkable and is an edge thing that impresses me, and much more than the BC. the fan gets + points.

If the second one is Michelle. I believe her change edge spiral is much more impresssive than a catch foot spiral. The change edge spiral shows ability to mark a serpentine figure on the ice. Not easy as anyone who did figures knows. the CE Spiral gets + points.

Just my opinion.

Joe

actually the first skater is a skater named Brianna Hatch here's the site if you want to take a look http://hometown.aol.com/reachsk8er/
The second one is Michelle.
I'm not saying that the skaters should get extra points as far as difficulty goes or even beauty, but I think that these are moves that add to the overall interpretation of the program. Take Michelles sprial in TBF where she holds her leg. I think that spiral fits perfectly with the music. There's a certain tension and fire that comes from that spiral position, that I don't think would be as well achieved with out the hand on the knee. Michelle also does a COE spiral in this sequence. But If she were to do this under CoP she would not be awarded a level 3 for the sequence becuase of the hand assisted spiral. to acheived maximum points she'd have to remove that spiral from the sequence. But I think it would take away from the program choreographically. So yes the COE sprial would get more points TECHNICALLY, but I think that adding the other sprial would/should gain her points choreographically. Since the points she would get in the tech mark for leaving the assisted sprial out (under CoP) would be more than she would get for choero. if she left it in, we are likely to see these kinds of moves slowly dissappear.
Does that make more sense?

Braves, I certainly understand what you are talking about. Much as I like CoP, there has always been the danger of getting "cookie cut" programs. With CoP, it is all about quantifiable things. The callenge in your example would be to enable the skater to increase his/her/their score through "choreography" enough to offset the lesser difficulty. I am not sure this is doable. Hockeyfan and other CoP fans, please jump in with any creative ideas.

There's nothing to stop skaters, and incentive in CoP, to use beautiful moves like a catch-foot spiral as transitional moves, especially as a lead-ins or transitions out of jumps. Take, for example, Cohen's Charlotte into the SL footwork, which did not count in the spiral sequence, but counted as a transition into the FW. To me Kwan's COE spiral is most impressive as a stand-alone, because no other spiral can match it. Kwan's LP's in the last few years have featured more crossovers and two-footed skating between elements, especially in the first 2/3 of the program; none of these were under CoP. IMO her programs could use some move of these moves between elements, especially in the middle of the program.

Arakawa was given a L3 spiral sequence by GPF, even though she does a catch-foot COE in her LP, I suspect because it's considered an open-position Biellmann.

If anything, adding elements like catch spirals between the tricks is the way to distinguish one program from another.

Hockeyfan = Yes, MK is doing more crossovers and two foot skating lately. She lost the Nagano Olys because the winner couldn't edge and did much two foot skating and crossovers. The tricks count in the last analysis. But, I'm with you on MK. She should put at least a little bit more into her moves in the fields. She is certainly capable of that.

As for catch foot anything, I don't object if it is with the music. Certainly it would work with Petrouchka or music depicting a waif such as the one in that movie with Guilietta Messina (I forget the name) where she played a carnival clown.

Moves in the Fiueld, for me, should represent the skater's essence of that music and not for fulfilling a requirement which, imo, would not suit the music. But hey, I'm a balletomane.

Joe

waif such as the one in that movie with Guilietta Messina (I forget the name) where she played a carnival clown.

Click to expand...

Do you mean Felinnin's La Strada?

BravesSkateFan:

I see no problem with the new judging system and artistic moves. In fact, Debbi Wilkes says skaters like Jeff Buttle (who is all about artistry) will benefit from the new scoring system. I don't think these skaters will abandon their artistic moves to gain points. If anything it will add to their score.

BravesSkateFan,

Do you have another link to the second pic? I keep getting an invalid page. Thanks.

Lynn

oh I had the pic on my server, but then I deleted. I'll put it back up...

Thank you, BravesSkateFan That was a gorgeous pic of
MK

Lynn