Score ceiling for Julia and Adelina in Sochi

yuki90 · Jan 21, 2014

Minze2001 said:
Jump Quality: Outstanding. Skating Skills: Carolina Kostner is her equal and Mao is very close. Aristry: Mao Asada not only matches her in many cases is better than Yuna's

It's just your opinion. I respect your point of view BUT there are many experts who think YuNa's artistry is exceptional and unmatched.

US ESPN,13/03/13
[What truly sets her apart, however, is her presence on the ice. Many skaters may as well use Muzak for as much as they feel the music, flailing their arms about in an imitation of artistry. With Kim, however, there is a seamless connection between her blades, her music and her heart. Watch her practice her footwork, and you can almost hear the strains of “Les Mis” or “Kiss of the Vampire.” It’s a quality that can’t be taught, and it’s what sets a great program apart from a good one.]

"There are class and quality in her skating. The reason Yu-Na's skating is special is because of the innocence and that authentic feeling."-Katarina Witt

"I don't feel like I'm missing anything when I watch her. She's the whole package.I think she will be remembered as a great artist."-1976 Olympic champion Dorothy Hamill

"She has the combination of the technical elements and the grace and musicality and that's what you want in skating."-Peggy Flemming

"she's really distanced herself not only technically, but artistically. "-Scott Hamilton

"Her place as an all-time great, secure alongside the likes of Dorothy Hamil, Peggy Flemming and Katarina Witt"-New York Times

“Yu-Na Kim. A living, breathing work of art from Korea"-Vancouver Sun

"Yuna’s technique is breathtaking. Her spins, jumps, footwork, ice coverage are gorgeous. In addition, she’s one of the few champions in the sport to continue to push herself, not just artistically but technically. "-Wall Street Journal

"Watching Kim Yu-Na dominate like she did touched me in away that I haven't been touched since Torvill and Dean in Sarajevo."- IOC President, Jacque Rogge

"She is the first woman in history who can even compete in men's figure skating for medal. There is no superlative that can describe this young woman. She was like an artist painting a masterpiece with only the slightest touch of a brush."
- German commentators commenting on her Olympics LP .

minze · Jan 21, 2014

yuki90 said:
It's just your opinion. I respect your point of view BUT there are many experts who think YuNa's artistry is exceptional and unmatched.

US ESPN,13/03/13
[What truly sets her apart, however, is her presence on the ice. Many skaters may as well use Muzak for as much as they feel the music, flailing their arms about in an imitation of artistry. With Kim, however, there is a seamless connection between her blades, her music and her heart. Watch her practice her footwork, and you can almost hear the strains of “Les Mis” or “Kiss of the Vampire.” It’s a quality that can’t be taught, and it’s what sets a great program apart from a good one.]

"There are class and quality in her skating. The reason Yu-Na's skating is special is because of the innocence and that authentic feeling."-Katarina Witt

"I don't feel like I'm missing anything when I watch her. She's the whole package.I think she will be remembered as a great artist."-1976 Olympic champion Dorothy Hamill

"She has the combination of the technical elements and the grace and musicality and that's what you want in skating."-Peggy Flemming

"she's really distanced herself not only technically, but artistically. "-Scott Hamilton

"Her place as an all-time great, secure alongside the likes of Dorothy Hamil, Peggy Flemming and Katarina Witt"-New York Times

“Yu-Na Kim. A living, breathing work of art from Korea"-Vancouver Sun

"Yuna’s technique is breathtaking. Her spins, jumps, footwork, ice coverage are gorgeous. In addition, she’s one of the few champions in the sport to continue to push herself, not just artistically but technically. "-Wall Street Journal

"Watching Kim Yu-Na dominate like she did touched me in away that I haven't been touched since Torvill and Dean in Sarajevo."- IOC President, Jacque Rogge

"She is the first woman in history who can even compete in men's figure skating for medal. There is no superlative that can describe this young woman. She was like an artist painting a masterpiece with only the slightest touch of a brush."
- German commentators commenting on her Olympics LP .

You do realize I can pull quotes like that about Mao, carolina right? What does that prove? No one said she wasnt the best. But in some areas Carolina and Mao top her. Is all relative :biggrin:

CarneAsada · Jan 21, 2014

yuki90 said:
"She is the first woman in history who can even compete in men's figure skating for medal. There is no superlative that can describe this young woman. She was like an artist painting a masterpiece with only the slightest touch of a brush."
- German commentators commenting on her Olympics LP .

The German commentators are ignorant and awful, especially if they think Yuna is the first (wrong) woman capable of competing for a men's medal (also wrong). Midori Ito would be more in the hunt for a men's medal than Yuna as she had the execution and the difficulty.

minze · Jan 21, 2014

yuki90 said:
In some areas? Ok, In your opinion.

but I want to see quotes about Mao that proves she matches YuNa's artistry.
I havent seen many quotes or articles about Mao.

First, what does your quotes prove?
Also, you dont have to work so hard to prove Yuna's godly superiority, just say she won gold by almost 20 points in Vancouver and did it again at 2013 worlds. Nuff said

Seriously, just because someone opines That Caro and Mao are stronger in some areas is dissmissing Kim as the top skater.

yuki90 · Jan 21, 2014

Minze2001 said:
First, what does your quotes prove?
Also, you dont have to work so hard to prove Yuna's godly superiority, just say she won gold by almost 20 points in Vancouver and did it again at 2013 worlds. Nuff said

Seriously, just because someone opines That Caro and Mao are stronger in some areas is dissmissing Kim as the top skater.

wow go back to read your post again. first you said Mao's artistry is better than YuNa.
so I show you some quotes that YuNa's exceptional and now you bring Caro into this.

About Caro, I think Caro and Yuna's artistry are both exceptional and unmatched.

minze · Jan 21, 2014

yuki90 said:
wow go back to read your post again. first you said Mao's artistry is better than YuNa.
so I show some quotes that YuNa's exceptional and now you bring Caro into this.

About Caro, I think Caro and Yuna's artistry is exceptional and unmatched.

Yes. I said and believe it. Are the opinion of commentators a perfect science that prove who has more aristry? Againg what does the quotes prove?

Ven · Jan 21, 2014

Mao's artistry has gone lately because of the problems with 3A. She spends 25% of her program around two 3A's and doesn't even land them. If she could finish them and build momentum in her program, it would help, but when she fails the 3As it's such a huge letdown for her and the audience. The program becomes a chore to skate and watch until she shows flashes of brilliance at the end, but it's not enough. Perhaps if she goes back to one 3A and can land it successfully, it will give her momentum to build the rest of her performance.

ETA: not sure what all this has to do with Julia and Adelina though. :/

Sam-Skwantch · Jan 21, 2014

I fail to see the point in leaving Julia and Adelina out of the posts if we are in fact discussing their scoring potential? Bring up Yuna,Mao, Caro sure, but how about in relation to the thread.

:bang:

someone should start a Yuna thread. Seems like someone would have started one by now.

jenaj · Jan 21, 2014

yuki90 said:
"She is the first woman in history who can even compete in men's figure skating for medal. There is no superlative that can describe this young woman. She was like an artist painting a masterpiece with only the slightest touch of a brush."
- German commentators commenting on her Olympics LP .

Why not? She has a triple axel and a quad, just like the men. Oh wait...

yuki90 · Jan 21, 2014

Minze2001 said:
Yes. I said and believe it. Are the opinion of commentators a perfect science that prove who has more aristry? Againg what does the quotes prove?

I'm not trying to prove anything. Why do I have to prove to convince you?

I just show some quotes of experts(skater, journalist) who thinks the opposite.

Ive already said I respect your point of view.

miki88 · Jan 21, 2014

hippomoomin said:
Adelina's spins are difficult but not aesthetically appealing.
Julia's spins are difficult and look aesthetically OK.
Gracie is not Über flexible but her spins look pretty and fast. She is very "spinning", if that's a word.
Yuna's spins are above average but there is no wow factor in her spins. I always feel she does not spin her spins, but skates her spins out.
Carolina's spins are the weakest among all, probably due to her lack of flexibility.

I agree with this. I think she is a good spinner but they are not highlights of her program. She also doesn't have much variety in her spin positions. As for Julia, I still feel she is simply showcasing her flexibility in her spins, instead of using them to enhance the program.

yuki90 · Jan 21, 2014

jenaj said:
Why not? She has a triple axel and a quad, just like the men. Oh wait...

It was in 2010 Olypimcs.

miki88 · Jan 21, 2014

yuki90 said:
It was in 2010 Olypimcs.

Most of the men attempted a triple axel or two. And a few of the top contenders attempted quads as well (i.e. Plushenko). Not to mention triple axel combos and multiple triples-triples. It's true a lot of them weren't consistent but in general the men's field have much harder technical content.

Sam-Skwantch · Jan 21, 2014

miki88 said:
I agree with this. I think she is a good spinner but they are not highlights of her program. She also doesn't have much variety in her spin positions. As for Julia, I still feel she is simply showcasing her flexibility in her spins, instead of using them to enhance the program.

Julia has amazing spins and the correlation between the music and the spins are spot on. How then do they not enhance the program. This puzzles me to no end. Is it really you dislike her use of her insane flexibility to set herself apart from the other girls. She usually gets 2-3 GOE on them which certainly enhance a program score. Her i-spin at the end of her routines always matches the songs perfectly and further usually draws a standing ovation. Now why would she change a thing. Could you clarify?

miki88 · Jan 21, 2014

Sam-Skwantch said:
Julia has amazing spins and the correlation between the music and the spins are spot on. How then do they not enhance the program. This puzzles me to no end. Is it really you dislike her use of her insane flexibility to set herself apart from the other girls. She usually gets 2-3 GOE on them which certainly enhance a program score. Now why would she change a thing. Could you clarify?

In my opinion, there is a disconnect between her spins and the music she is using. Michelle Kwan used to repeat her Y-spin during parts of the music that required extra emphasis. For a more recent example of good use of spins can be seen in Alyssa Czisny's Winter into Spring program. In the latter program, the acceleration of Czisny's spins matched wonderfully with the tempos of the music. I don't see Julia's spins used to the same effect in her programs, at least not yet.

FlattFan · Jan 21, 2014

German commentators are smoking something funny.

The only time a woman can be competitive with the men was in 1989 when Midori had the triple axel and triple triples and no top men were doing quad. She could be competitive with 7-8 triples LP at the time.

It's laughable that Yuna with 6 triples can be competitive with any men with 3As.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Jan 21, 2014

FlattFan said:
German commentators are smoking something funny.

The only time a woman can be competitive with the men was in 1989 when Midori had the triple axel and triple triples and no top men were doing quad. She could be competitive with 7-8 triples LP at the time.

It's laughable that Yuna with 6 triples can be competitive with any men with 3As.

Actually, as crazy as they seem, if you look at the points, she is somewhat competitive.

In terms of Yu Na's TES:

Her PB for TES is 44.70 and 78.30. With an extra jumping pass in the FS (since men have 8 and ladies have 7), let's say she gets an extra 5.1 points with a 3L, so 83.40 FS for TES.

That 44.70 TES would have been 3rd highest at 2014 Euros ahead of Verner, and her theoretical 83.40 TES would have have been in the FS ahead of Brezina. At Worlds last year, her personal best TES would have been 4th-highest in the men's SP and the 83.40 TES would have been 5th highest in the men's FS --- without a quad or triple axel.

In terms of Yu Na's PCS:

Her PB for PCS is 33.80 and 78.30 which when adjusted from 0.8 to 1.0 factoring is 42.25 SP and 97.87 FS PCS. At Worlds, that would have given her 3rd highest PCS of the men's SP and highest PCS of the men's LP.

Collectively, based on her current personal best scores, her theoretical personal best (if given men's factoring of PCS in the FS, and landing her extra jumping pass) would be:
TES: 44.70 SP + 83.40 FS
PCS: 42.25 SP + 97.87 FS
SP: 86.95 points
FS: 181.27 points

Total: 268.22 -- this would be 5th best total of all time, and would have won her men's Worlds last year (possibly not when adjusted for slight changes in the elements' values).

Of course, those numbers are rough, the elements' values have slightly changed, and her PCS would drop compared to the men who are faster than her... but given her personal best TES scores and with her current PCS adjusted with the men's factoring, theoretically it seems as though Kim would still be somewhat competitive in the men's even without a triple axel and quad. Who would have thought!

miki88 · Jan 21, 2014

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
Actually, as crazy as they seem, if you look at the points, she is somewhat competitive.

In terms of Yu Na's TES:

Her PB for TES is 44.70 and 78.30. With an extra jumping pass in the FS (since men have 8 and ladies have 7), let's say she gets an extra 5.1 points with a 3L, so 83.40 FS for TES.

That 44.70 TES would have been 3rd highest at 2014 Euros ahead of Verner, and her theoretical 83.40 TES would have have been in the FS ahead of Brezina. At Worlds last year, her personal best TES would have been 4th-highest in the men's SP and the 83.40 TES would have been 5th highest in the men's FS --- without a quad or triple axel.

In terms of Yu Na's PCS:

Her PB for PCS is 33.80 and 78.30 which when adjusted from 0.8 to 1.0 factoring is 42.25 SP and 97.87 FS PCS. At Worlds, that would have given her 3rd highest PCS of the men's SP and highest PCS of the men's LP.

You mean at Nationals? I think it's silly to compare across disciplines. Scores are relative and viewed in context. A male skater who doesn't do a triple axel or a quad wouldn't be competitive at all. Especially in the last cycle. For example, Jason Brown is a fantastic overall skater but he isn't considered a top contender because he doesn't have a quad yet.

FlattFan · Jan 21, 2014

If Chan, Dai, Plushenko, Yuzuru, Lambiel, Yagudin all skate 3Lz-3T, 3F, 2A in the SP, and 6 triples in the LP, what is the chance any of them would have a combined score of 268.22?

I'd say 0. That would be a disaster skate for any of them. Would a disaster skate put anyone on 5th best score of all time?

nguyenghita · Jan 21, 2014

jenaj said:
Artistry, no. Julia and Akiko both exceed her in artistry (performance/execution and interpretation), IMO.

Akiko no question, but Julia exceed Yuna in artistry? OMG, yeah say whatever you want, enjoy living in the fantasy land, thanks for the great laugh :eek:

Score ceiling for Julia and Adelina in Sochi

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