Europeans on ABC/ESPN-Televised Thoughts

The quality of skating was significantly improved at Budapest compared with what we saw at 4CC, making this an enjoyable afternoon of skating.

Europeans Result Page for reference

I apologize if the elements are wrong; it's my first time trying to take notes. How do the people that report from the competitions do it?!

MEN (in order of appearance)
LP results
overall results

Please pass along some of that charisma to our North American and Asian skaters!

Stephane Lambiel-QRB:4,SP:12,LP:5,Overall:6
Music:Gypsy Dance,
Elements:4t-3t,3x(fall),3f-3t,combo spin,MITF,2z,3l,camel spin,easy straight-line steps,3s,circular footwork,combo spins
Tech:5.4-5.7, Pres: 5.3-5.8
Very fast spins and overall charming skater but still seems rougher than the other guys in terms of presentation (not movement-wise, but in terms of conviction).

Frederic Dambier-QRB:2,SP:4,LP:4,Overall:4
Music:"Tango de Roxane" from the movie Moulin Rouge,
Elements:4s,3s-3t,3x-2t,spread eagle into 3?,spin,2l,flying death drop sit spin combo,spread eagle into 3z,3f,3t,spin,circular footwork,straight-line footwork,sudden stop
Tech:5.3-5.7, Pres:5.4-5.7
The French flair lives on. Very charismatic, but needs to clean up his somewhat scratchy landings

Brian Joubert-QRB:1,SP:2 (lost 5-4 split),LP:1,Overall:1
Music:from the movie The Matrix,
Elements: 4t,3f,3x,spin,Yagudin-like miming,4t-3t,3l,combo spin,circular footwork,3z,combo spin,straight-line steps,3s,combo spin
Tech:5.7-5.9, Pres:5.5-5.8, Ordinals:All 1
A much deserved win for Joubert, who up to this point has had a very rough season. Choreographically too reminiscent of Alexei Yagudin, and IMO the weakest in terms of interesting choreographically second only the Plushenko's program. Good that he did his first 2 quad program, although still needs to clean up a few of the jumps.

Evgeny Plushenko-QRA:1,SP:1 (won 5-4 split),LP:2,Overall:2
Music:Tribute to Vaclav Nijinsky,
Elements:4t-3t-2l,1x(fall),1x,3x-3t-2l,3f(fall),combo spin camel-doughnut, Nijinski poses, straight-line footwork, 3z,3l,combo catch-foot back sit, spiral sequence,spin,2s,combo spin with a brief fall out
Tech:5.4-5.8, Pres:5.5-5.9, Ordinals:2-1st,5-2nds,1-3rd,1-4th
The worst I have seen Plushenko skate in a long time. From the moment he took the ice, you could see that it wasn't going to be his night. In addition, by trying to get the 3axels into the program, he destroyed a lot of the choreography. Held up, especially in presentation; I would have put him no higher than 4th in the free skate, and that only due to his two 3-jump combinations. Like Kwan, normally the rest is enough to cover a relative-to-the-field spin deficit, but not pretty tonight. Hope his knees are in good enough shape for two more competitions--Worlds and the spring USFSA cheesefest. For now and especially given the powerful performance at Russian nationals with ten 6.0s, I have to give Plushenko the benefit of the doubt and assume this skate was a fluke.

Ilia Klimkin-QRA:2,SP:3,LP:3,Overall:3
Music:Dr. Diesel,
Elements: 3x-3t,4t-3t,combo spin,4t(fall),camel on R then on L into 3s,3f(fallout),combo spin,cantilever,3l,steps into 3f? (hands down), bent-leg spiral,combo butterflys flying camel spin
Tech:5.4-5.7, Pres:5.4-5.8, Ordinals:1-1st,1-2nd,5-3rds,1-4th,1-5th
Always a choreographic highlight, and this time with some jumps to boot. I hope that this medal is the start of some jump consistency, since I would hate for him to not be able to realize his potential. Very inventive.

LADIES (in order of appearance)
LP results
Overall results

Viktoria Pavuk-SP:3,LP:4,Overall:4
Music:Miss You, Rhapsody in Black (but at the beginning was Plushenko's music),
Elements:3z-3t(2-ft?),3l,3f,layback,2x,3f,spiral sequence, 3s(turns after,spiral,combo spin, steps into 3t,straight-line steps,split,combo illusions-sit,Y-spin
Tech:5.4-5.8, Pres:5.2-5.7
Although the music selected lacked coherence, the energy Pavuk put into her performance, perhaps strengthened by skating at home, helped make up for her stiff somewhat juniorish movements to a degree. Followed up her 3-3 in the SP with another in the LP. Overall I like her enthusiasm. Too bad that due to Sebastyen's 14th place finish last year at worlds that Hungary had only 1 spot for this year's worlds.

Elena Liashenko-SP:2,LP:3,Overall:2
Music:from the movie Frida,
Elements: 3z-2t, 3f, 3t, combo spin, 3f-2t, layback, spiral sequence, 3s,spin,3z,straight-line steps,2x,combo sit-layback-catch-foot spin, Tech:5.4-5.8,Pres:5.5-5.9,Ordinals:7-1st,2-2nd
I appreciate Liashenko's maturity but somehow even with good choreography her program doesn't seem to soar with the intensity of the music. The telegraphs into jumps and lack of a loop hurt as well. Nice performance, but not really a worlds podium contender unless others falter.

Elena Sokolova-SP:6,LP:2,Overall:3
Music: from Notre Dame de Paris,
Elements: 3z-3t,3f,3s-3t,camel spin,3l,layback,2z,spiral sequence,combo spin,spiral into 2x, scratch spin,
Tech:5.4-5.8, Pres:5.5-5.9, Ordinals:7-1st,2-2nd
As Blockbuster Video used to say, "Wow! What a difference!" The practice reports that said that Sokolova was adding 3toe to everything were correct, and she was able to deliver in the LP, although the 3toe in the first combination looked somewhat cheated and almost 2-footed and the 3toe in the second combo had poor runout. Switching back to last year's LP and scraping No One Gives Up on Love was also a good move on her part; the two programs were considered to be virtual clones anyway, and the music helps her here. Even Pavuk had better presentation IMO, perhaps this performance, especially after a poor LP, will bring back the confidence. She certainly seems to have a fighting spirit, and those 3-3s will be a threat at worlds.

Julia Sebestyen-SP:1,LP:1,Overall:1
Music: Tango selections
Elements: 3s,3z-2t,3turns into 3l,doughnut spin,steps into 2z,layback,3f,3t turns into 2t,spiral sequence,2x,catch-foot spin,straight-line footwork,combo spin
Tech:5.5-5.9, Pres:5.6-5.9, Ordinals:6-1st,2-2nd,1-3rd
People have complained about how Morosov's choreography is repetitive and uninspired, but in the hands of the proper skater, like Julia Sebestyen or Michelle Kwan, it works quite nicely. I was worried from what I read on the internet about Sebestyen only landing 4 triples cleanly that this was not deserving of the gold, so I was pleasantly surprised that those lamentations were overstated (as usual). The triples she landed had nice spring and good runout, and although she did appear somewhat frightened at first, she kept her nerves intact for an excellent finish with the straight-line footwork. Cute interview and touching medal ceremony. Hopefully a sign of things to come for the Hungarian skaters.

Agreed with the placements; Sokolova had the 3-3s, Liashenko the choreography and mature presentation, and Sebastyen enough jumps and choreography both. Overall, the European ladies showed that the rest of the world better bring their "A"-game to Dortmund.


InsecureEdge

I donno, but Lambiel's pres seems to be more polished than the men ahead of him to me. And the ease of movement is unmatched.

It was a much better ABC showing given that it wasn't perfect

MENS

Joubert - Best I've seen him, and he certainly deserved the LP win.

Plushenko - Worst I've seen him, and I would have placed him 5th or 6th in the LP. He needs to concentrate more. Without those jumps, he's in trouble. His spins have always been weak and I think trying to mimic Njinsky just got in the way of his performance. Better he stick with being cute and ogling the audience.

Klimkin - I still think he is the best Whole Package male skater in Europe. Now he COULD mimic Njinsky.

Dambieer - Surprisingly good. I waited for him to crack. He didn't!, and the routine is quite good for him.

Lindeman - Not on TV but must have been impressive.

Lambiel - The question arises, who has the most impressive flow on ice? Stephane or Michelle? Should have been 3rd overall.

Would have liked to have seen Griazev.

LADIES

Sebastyen - No surprise to me. I expected it. She's good!

Sokolova =Getting it back together. Nice but not special.

Liashenko = Always nice and always not special.

Pavuk = Impressive. Lot's of talent but needs lots of work.

Kostner - Not shown on TV but I said the above about her last year

INTERESTING FLUFF

Madam Tarrassova on Ms Cohen. What did you think?

Joe

The Amazing Magical Cable Feed

Where was ABC getting their cable feed from? I spent the entire broadcast just in awe of it. It was so crystal clear it almost felt like you were watching it live.

Also, congrats on ABC for better coverage of skaters (the FINALLY showed Stéphane Lambiel and they also showed Viktoria Pavuk, which was nice) that we don't normally see in the US.

Yay, ABC

I agree with a lot of what other posters have said. They only showed 4 ladies and they were good and it was nice not to see a splatfest.

The fluff was kind of cute even though I would have rather seen another lady.

Why they had the TT interview I'm not sure other than it was the first chance ABC got to interview her and she is missing the spotlight. It is OLD news now and I really don't care why they broke up anymore. TT didn't say anything new.

It was good to see Lambiel and Pavuk, who we might not have normally seen here in the US.

I think Plush was gifted with a second place....I would have put him behind Joubert, Klimkin and Lambiel at least in the free program (and it was close with Dambier). I'm interested to see if it's Plush the SKATER or Plush the reputation who shows up at worlds. If he doesn't EARN it, he doesn't deserve a gift from world's also.

I hadn't seen any of the men's programs before (that I recall) other than Plushy's. I like Klimkin's use of music and choreography...and love seeing the cantilever (although I'd like to see him do it without the arm up as counterbalance....more like Doug Mattis). And Lambiel definitely showed the rest of the field proper spin technique!

Worlds should be interesting....

Kasey

I basically enjoyed the whole broadcast, except for Pavuk. She's almost as overrated as the truck on ice, Phaneuf.

TV

I was very happy that Lambiel didn't get chacked. He has great spins, I wish he'd highlight them even more. Very impressed with Joubert, Dambier and Klimkin. I love Klimkin's style. I'd like to know what the heck happened to Plushenko. He didn't deserve to be on the podium. I think unless his injury really hampers him, he will arrive at Worlds with a lot of fight. He's had two high profile losses, and I'm sure he'll be hungry come March.

It was so nice to see Sebestyn win at home. I liked Pavuk. Even if she needs some work, you can see real potential. Nice for Sokolova and Liashenko too. Sokolova seemed much happier than earlier in the season.

I'm waiting to see if joubert can keep this up or if his skate was a fluke. Plushy has an off night,and everybody beats on the guy, but noone here cares to point out the lack of footwork,or polish in joubert's skating,interesting.

"Plushy has an off night...."

Yes, he did. We all know what he is capable of, even injured, which makes his meltdown even more remarkable. He said himself that he wasn't sure what had happened.

Lack of footwork and polish for Joubert...hmmm. I do think he is still a bit "juniorish"....although the same could be said of Lambiel (and maybe even Klimkin, although I like his way with his music, his moves aren't all smooth and well-presented). However, the 'lack of footworkd and polish' are maybe true of Joubert....let's keep in mind that Plush has been a force on the senior scene for about 5 years now. AND did not have much footwork or polish for 2 or 3 of them. You seemed to have patience and give him time to find his style. Joubert deserves time to find his own also.

The fact of the matter is though, at this particular competition, HE was clean....and presented what he did do well.

Kasey

RealtorGal said:

We do have to remember that it's not all about the LP. Nevertheless, I cannot, for any reason, understand how Plushy merited 2 1st place ordinals for the LP. How can such a vote be justified? Probably a stupid question, but why does such biased voting not require accountability? Sigh...

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RG - Those two first place ordinals must have been in the random drawing. The questions continues - were they biased? were they inept?

Joe

Joesitz said:

RG - Those two first place ordinals must have been in the random drawing. The questions continues - were they biased? were they inept?

Joe

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Yes, Joe, biased and inept. The point is that two judges out there put him in first. That should be unacceptable by anyone's standards.

His spins have always been weak and I think trying to mimic Njinsky just got in the way of his performance. Better he stick with being cute and ogling the audience

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I don´t agree.
I like artistic programs and I am no lover of "jump programs". Therefore I like Plushenko´s Njinsky program, because it is one of the few programs, in which somebody tries to show artistic elements.
Relating to the marks: both 1. places were not justified.
One first place was probably assigned by the Russian judge - that is not important because in the reverse case (French judge) it would have happened in the same way - so no reason to get excited. All national judges hold up their skaters whether Russian, American or others. The only possibility for changing is to make open the judgement.
I would like to add that most of the time somebody notice more the mistakes of a non-favoured skater than the mistakes of the others - that is valid for judges but also for fans.
Alina

alina said:

All national judges hold up their skaters whether Russian, American or others.

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And I still remember an interview with Yagudin after he won Olympic Gold in SLC, where he said that he felt very lucky, when he got to know, that there would be no Russian judge on the panel, as those were the ones which always gave him the worst marks.

I'm not going to say it again....yes, Plushy fell....yes, he didn't deserve to be on the podium....yes, at the same time his Nijinsky programme is still very artistic (though what it has to do with Nijinsky except for a few arm movements from his ballets and music he liked is beyond me, but that's another spiel)...yes, Joubert isn't as refined as he could be (news flash: neither is Plushenko)

What we saw with Plushy at this competition was a problem that you saw with Slutskaya a couple years ago. A skater with good [sic] artistry that was normally solid with jumps, but when they made mistakes on a jump, kept repeating and repeating the jump until they finally did it. Come on, Plushy tried the triple axel THREE TIMES. I know it was partly to get the credit for the triple axel, but where I come from that's called kicking a dead horse. Changing your programme to adjust for mistakes is one thing, but for the love of God, learn to move on and don't take the rest of the programme down with you!

I don't care how much you love Plushenko or hate Joubert, the bottom line is Joubert skated cleanly; Plushenko didn't. Joubert deserved to win; Plushenko didn't really deserve to medal.

Matt said:

Plushenko didn't really deserve to medal.

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There was no chance for Plushenko to be off the podium, he was just to far ahead of Dambier after the QR and the SP, so even if the judges would have dared to place him 4th in the free, than he still would have medaled.

Evdokia said:

There was no chance for Plushenko to be off the podium, he was just to far ahead of Dambier after the QR and the SP, so even if the judges would have dared to place him 4th in the free, than he still would have medaled.

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Evdokia - I don't think posters are really speaking of the QR and SP which most of them didn't see. But as far as the LP is concerned, I believe some posters, like me, would have put him in sixth place. Plush had a bad day. Everyone has in their skating career, so it is not the end of the world. I am sure Plush will put it together and skate a fine Worlds. No problem.

What it showed in the rankings was that 2 judges had his LP in First Place. This was way out of lline. You know as well as I do that the other contestants skated much better. Either it was bias or ineptness. and were those two judges among the random drawings? We don't know so it's all speculation.

I am not a big fan of Plush but I do believe he is no. l in the world of competititve skating. For artistic skating I would take Klimkin and Lambiel, and really, no others.

Joe

Joesitz said:

Either it was bias or ineptness. and were those two judges among the random drawings? We don't know so it's all speculation.

Joe

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The judges who gave him two first-place ordinals were among the nine who were chosen or we wouldn't know about them. Only the nine chosen ordinals were flashed on screen for those few seconds.

No way they should have placed Plush where they did. Even his presentation was sloppy.

10 cheers for Sokolova for pulling herself together
I haven't been the biggest Sokolova fan or her arm flairs in the past, but I actually liked her performance, much better than her worlds performance last year it seemed more polished. 10 cheers also to her for dumping the LP she started off with. I hope she can keep this up for Worlds to give the US and Japanese ladies a run for their money.

Pavuk just needs to polish up a bit and she'll be extra great. I became a fan after I saw her SP. Her mom looked so proud too.

This is the first time that I've seen Poykio. SHe looked very elegant and graceful in her dress and also her carriage.

I felt so great for Sebesteyen winning at home, especially when they showed the shot of her parents.