Russian (Supposed) inflations and their Olympic consequences | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Russian (Supposed) inflations and their Olympic consequences

vegarin

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 19, 2013
I don't really want to get involved in yet another ridiculous fight on this board - but wanted to just say I don't feel Osmond is Russia's main competition!!!

At the last Worlds, Osmond ranked higher than two major Russian threats at the time, Adelina, Eliza and Alena. In fact, all the American youngsters ranked higher than the Russian youngsters, and pretty much all the youngsters from America and Russia (plus, Zijun, who did really well in FS) were considered in the same group of breakout talents who will become a major threat once the Top Three (Yuna, Mao, and Carolina) retire after this season (Carolina has not said so, but she probably wouldn't be staying much longer). It was something of a bet among the fans who among these talents would rise up to be the next "top" girl, because it seemed as if toppling the big three completely seemed impossible to do in 2014, and Yuna in particular looked unbeatable. And in this, Osmond was often compared to the new Russian skaters as well as American skaters.

Julia is obviously a factor that hasn't been considered last year, or even early this year, but Canada and Russia were both full of great medal contenders for the team medal, going toe to toe, and Osmond is the only female Canadian skater who can possibly medal, so yeah, Osmond and some of the Russian skaters were compared next to each other.
 

CarneAsada

Medalist
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
I'm a big Yuna fan myself, and I do see it happening -- it's like, I'd rather see Mao win, or Yuna win, rather than this baby who's suddenly getting massive GOEs! Losing to Mao/Yuna is acceptable, but only just! Thanks, Julia (Russia?), for uniting these fans. I never thought I'd see the day.

But honestly, I do share these feelings now, after perusing all the threads and reading interviews and studying the protocols. I'm miffed, and not just because I'd rather see Yuna or Mao to win. I still can't believe Julia won over Carolina who's gone almost perfectly. Telling me that Julia is better than Carolina when I can tell you that just ain't true. That, to me, is an issue.
I prefer Mao to Yuna but I was always fine with Yuna winning the OGM (and Carolina and Suzuki would be my 3rd/4th preference to win it). I still don't think Yuna is in particular danger of losing to Julia even with 1 error. Her Worlds 2013 LP GOE and PCS I did find inflated, but compared to Julia, it looks tame, conservative, even stingy ( :laugh: never thought I'd see the day that I said this). I would hope that the judges watching those two side by side could tell that clean Yuna >>>> clean Julia in terms of GOE and PCS.
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
I don't really want to get involved in yet another ridiculous fight on this board - but wanted to just say I don't feel Osmond is Russia's main competition!!!

Can't we all just be friends. And I agree with no skates on many fronts. But really we are taking things too personal = really if someoen outside read these posts one would wonder almost if any or at leas a lot of us could hold down any job as we sound a bit psycho lol.
 

RobinA

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
The Russian bonus was particularly in evidence with Plushy's so-so LP, which was massively overscored. The Men's comp was not the greatest, but Machida at least should have beated him. I hope this does not keep up.
 

Frenchie

I'm gonna customize the CRAP out of this title!
Medalist
Joined
May 4, 2013
Can you imagine what would happen if they both go clean and Julia wins by a tiny margin granted by higher PCS scores? What if they clearly and obviously shaft both Yuna and Mao? Both Yuna and Mao fans will unite (that will be a sight to see, actually) for a take down. That will break the Internet.

I hate to have to refer to SLC 2002 again, as this just makes my French half very ashamed, but... SLC 2002!
Even when there was a real scandal with people found guilty (that wouldn't be possible that clearly today), "Both Le Gougne and Gailhaguet were eventually suspended from the sport for three years by the International Skating Union, which never made any serious investigation into the events." ... and then things came back to what they were before: Didier Gailhaguet resigned as president of the French Ice Sports Federation on 12 May 2004 (he wasn't even fired!), but was re-elected to that position in December 2007. He is considered the most likely to be the successor of Cinquanta as future President of the ISU.

So to sum it up, I'd say the ISU has a very pragmatic approach to scandals and controversies: "sit and wait, there's nothing they can do anyway". They awarded Salé/Pelletier with additional Gold Medals due to being pressured by the IOC. The ISU would have been fine with doing nothing. Their slogan should be something like:

ISU - yeah, well, what are you gonna do about it?
 

RobinA

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
LOL. Plushenko's been getting funny PCS for years at this point. By "all 8s," I assume that you mean that his total averaged PCS score? I suggest you look at all of the judges' scores for PCS: they range from 6s to 9s. But this isn't a new phenomenon, like I said, it's been happening for years. I think judges just don't know how to give him PCS, period.

So I don't necessarily think that Plushenko's scores are "reflective" of a judging scandal. It's more like a "Plushenko-is-a-legend-but-he's-not-in-the-form-he-used-to-be-in" inflation.

I pretty much agree. It's just that it's gotten ridiculous. I'm not exactly scandal prone, but when Pluschenko gets the scores he did in the team free, you have to wonder. Personally, I lean more to the theory that since the team event is new, they decided to gift Plushy (and the hosts) for past performances and then get down to business in the individual events. The Plush story is being sold with everything they've got. Hamilton and Bezic RAVED about his free like it was the second coming, but then, interestingly, did not show the program in prime time that supposedly blew everybody away. That tells me everything I need to know. Not that seeing the actual program left me with any doubt.

The only thing I am left with is that they will get real from here on out. If not, figure skating has truly become the circus many people (not me) have accused it of being for years. In my opinion, Chan as at least two falls over Plushy and the Japanese men have one, maybe two falls. Takahashi has two falls. We'll see how it plays out.
 

Sk8n Mama

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
He is considered the most likely to be the successor of Cinquanta as future President of the ISU.

So to sum it up, I'd say the ISU has a very pragmatic approach to scandals and controversies: "sit and wait, there's nothing they can do anyway". They awarded Salé/Pelletier with additional Gold Medals due to being pressured by the IOC. The ISU would have been fine with doing nothing. Their slogan should be something like:

ISU - yeah, well, what are you gonna do about it?

Oh, don't let this be true: Gaillhaguet leading the ISU. What a farce.
 

vegarin

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 19, 2013
I hate to have to refer to SLC 2002 again, as this just makes my French half very ashamed, but... SLC 2002!
Even when there was a real scandal with people found guilty (that wouldn't be possible that clearly today), "Both Le Gougne and Gailhaguet were eventually suspended from the sport for three years by the International Skating Union, which never made any serious investigation into the events." ... and then things came back to what they were before: Didier Gailhaguet resigned as president of the French Ice Sports Federation on 12 May 2004 (he wasn't even fired!), but was re-elected to that position in December 2007. He is considered the most likely to be the successor of Cinquanta as future President of the ISU.

So to sum it up, I'd say the ISU has a very pragmatic approach to scandals and controversies: "sit and wait, there's nothing they can do anyway". They awarded Salé/Pelletier with additional Gold Medals due to being pressured by the IOC. The ISU would have been fine with doing nothing. Their slogan should be something like:

ISU - yeah, well, what are you gonna do about it?

Hee, brilliant! And also, I didn't know he got elected AGAIN after the scandal. Seriously? And nothing's to be done about it? SERIOUSLY?

Ugh, you know what? If they think they can battle the collective force of Japanese and Korean fans (their fanwars have actually a history of breaking the Internet, if I remember correctly) even knowing how Mao and Yuna are respected and adored in their respective country, then they may be for a rude awakening. I can even see the heads of the country getting involved, given how popular they are. Putin isn't the only one who's invested in figure skating.

Actually, I almost want to see it. Sigh.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
It's already starting to happen. Look at all the Yuna and Mao fans already laying into Julia with all they've got. :laugh:

Which is silly since none of Julia's scores have indicated she will be even close to a clean Kim, and in fact show Kim has a mistakes margin of sorts; and a clean Asada with her 3axels will obviously score higher too based on all her scores this season. Just more baseless Russian bashing is all.
 

treeloving

Medalist
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Which is silly since none of Julia's scores have indicated she will be even close to a clean Kim, and in fact show Kim has a mistakes margin of sorts; and a clean Asada with her 3axels will obviously score higher too based on all her scores this season. Just more baseless Russian bashing is all.

But she is already in front of clean Kostner which I doubt would happen if the Olympic is not in Russia.
 

Frenchie

I'm gonna customize the CRAP out of this title!
Medalist
Joined
May 4, 2013
Oh lord. I can't even imagine how the Koreans would react if they actually shaft Yuna's score in obvious ways somehow and impede her chance of winning her second gold. Can you imagine what would happen if they both go clean and Julia wins by a tiny margin granted by higher PCS scores? What if they clearly and obviously shaft both Yuna and Mao? Both Yuna and Mao fans will unite (that will be a sight to see, actually) for a take down. That will break the Internet.

Well, it wasn't Julia, but Adelina... Adelina wasn't even completely clean... And she didn't win the PCS... Yu-Na beat her in PCS by a whopping 0.09 points!!! :disapp:
I'm really curious if the Internet will break.
I hate to have to refer to SLC 2002 again, as this just makes my French half very ashamed, but... SLC 2002!
Even when there was a real scandal with people found guilty (that wouldn't be possible that clearly today), "Both Le Gougne and Gailhaguet were eventually suspended from the sport for three years by the International Skating Union, which never made any serious investigation into the events." ... and then things came back to what they were before: Didier Gailhaguet resigned as president of the French Ice Sports Federation on 12 May 2004 (he wasn't even fired!), but was re-elected to that position in December 2007. He is considered the most likely to be the successor of Cinquanta as future President of the ISU.

So to sum it up, I'd say the ISU has a very pragmatic approach to scandals and controversies: "sit and wait, there's nothing they can do anyway". They awarded Salé/Pelletier with additional Gold Medals due to being pressured by the IOC. The ISU would have been fine with doing nothing. Their slogan should be something like:

ISU - yeah, well, what are you gonna do about it?
 

vegarin

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 19, 2013
Well, it wasn't Julia, but Adelina... Adelina wasn't even completely clean... And she didn't win the PCS... Yu-Na beat her in PCS by a whopping 0.09 points!!! :disapp:
I'm really curious if the Internet will break.

God, I know I said it, but never in million years did I think this would actually HAPPEN. I TAKE IT BACK. PLEASE. I DIDN'T MEAN IT.

Hindsight is 20/20. :bang:
 

fadeevfan

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 1, 2004
Adelina is a very unpolished, or as Dick Button is saying, not a "complete" skater. She deserved bronze. I actually adore her, but this wasn't a convincing win. I'd love to argue for her gold, but I really can't. (And I'd have Carolina in first.)

BUT. . . I agree with others who raise Sarah Hughes here as a comparison. She wasn't in the same category with Irina and Michelle in presentation, but the judges went with the clean skate, and the home skater with the crowd behind her. What's disappointing is that was 2002 -- the year of the pairs scandal -- and nothing has really changed, after all. Only now the judges are anonymous, so there's less accountability.
 

Mista Ekko

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Adelina is a very unpolished, or as Dick Button is saying, not a "complete" skater. She deserved bronze. I actually adore her, but this wasn't a convincing win. I'd love to argue for her gold, but I really can't. (And I'd have Carolina in first.)

BUT. . . I agree with others who raise Sarah Hughes here as a comparison. She wasn't in the same category with Irina and Michelle in presentation, but the judges went with the clean skate, and the home skater with the crowd behind her. What's disappointing is that was 2002 -- the year of the pairs scandal -- and nothing has really changed, after all. Only now the judges are anonymous, so there's less accountability.

I don't get your take on "clean skates"

Kostner, Kim and Asada all skated clean and amazing with better programs, PCS and pedigree (Well, maybe not on Russian ground ;) )
How does this compare to kwan falling, Slutskaya apparently being sloppy, And
Hughes who was already then a Worlds bronze medalist and have beaten the two in a GP event that year
beating them on the free with two 3-3 ?

And wasn't michelle at home too ?
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
I agree with others who raise Sarah Hughes here as a comparison. She wasn't in the same category with Irina and Michelle in presentation, but the judges went with the clean skate, and the home skater with the crowd behind her. What's disappointing is that was 2002 -- the year of the pairs scandal -- and nothing has really changed, after all.

The difference is that now you can't win only by being the cleanest. You have to do a lot of things well and accrue more points than the others.
 

vegarin

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 19, 2013

treeloving

Medalist
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
What I'm afraid of is the trend of super hyper inflation will continue for other host, So Yon Park and Hajin might be podium contender in 2018.
 
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