Lipnitskaya vs Kim: What will happen in the individual competition? | Page 7 | Golden Skate

Lipnitskaya vs Kim: What will happen in the individual competition?

Ven

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 17, 2013
Personally, I'd only accept her win if all the top three have really a bad day collectively and Julia does her very best. Then sure, she would've won fair and square, but if she scores better than a clean Yuna or Mao or Carolina, then no. That's just a no.

The scoring has become disgusting and a scandal, hasn't it?

Imagine if Julia were getting 60 to low 60s PCS (like she got just 2 months ago) and 0 to +1 GOE on good jumps, checked closely for edge calls. I would be a bigger fan of hers, because she'd still do well, might get a medal, and would have things to work on going forward. Instead because the scoring is so obviously false and incorrect, the story is no longer about her skating but instead about the rigged outcome. This is why many people are revolted. The judges have overextended themselves this time.
 

DaveT

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 27, 2007
Julia reminds me of Caroline Zhang. Zhang's spin was sensational like Julia and jumps are tiny with no height and distance.
I can see this comparison as Zhang was a lovely junior with exceptional spins and was bendy too but Julia doesn't have that awful mule kick but she does have to muscle those jumps like Zhang did so we'll have to wait and see if puberty is equally unkind to Julia and if so if she is able to use that same technique and be successful with hips.
 

szidon

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
I can see this comparison as Zhang was a lovely junior with exceptional spins and was bendy too but Julia doesn't have that awful mule kick but she does have to muscle those jumps like Zhang did so we'll have to wait and see if puberty is equally unkind to Julia and if so if she is able to use that same technique and be successful with hips.

ITA. Consistency of her jumps is great, but the way she jumps reminds me of Caroline Zhang's. Plus, height and ice coverage of her jumps are not that impressive.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
For all the criticism she gets on her jumps, I think Julia makes the most of them by having less preparation and usually a good extension or creative exit, even if there's not much flow.

I don't understand people calling her jumps tiny and whatnot... They are, but like Miyahara, what do you expect, her to have a body that can jump 3 feet above the ice?

That being said, there's no way she should be getting such high GOE on her jumps. But at least if she wins gold with a clean skate, it'll be the first time in a while that a woman won with 7 triples and that's something!
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
Julia reminds me of Caroline Zhang. Zhang's spin was sensational like Julia and jumps are tiny with no height and distance.

Julia has wrong edge problem and she pre-rotates almost 270 dgree when she takes off the jump.

Julia can be a Olympic Champion at this time with crazy Russian Inflation.

After 2~3 years, Julia will grow up. Well, what happend to Caroline Zhang?

comparing Julia to Carolina Zhang is insulting
Zhang may be flexible but that is all their similarities

the doom and gloom about Julia has been predicting since she was 13 :rolleye:
first, she has better edges than Zhang , Zhang was slower, Zhang had terrible technique on her jumps and that hammertoe mule kick !
and by 15 Zhang was already declining, Julia has kept on improving
Julia's lutz is borderline and aren't taht severe as some people make it out to be
Julia's axels are like Lipinski's but she lands them and it has improved over the years, it gets more height now as are all her jumps, her flip height is solid
so your propagandas are all false
 

vegarin

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 19, 2013
For all the criticism she gets on her jumps

She doesn't have perfect jumps, and no one says she has to, but she's better be for the GOEs she's getting. Fair is fair. No one's criticizing her for the high GOEs she's getting for some of the spins. Hers may travel, but she does spin fast, so that may make up for it. But there's no explicable explanation for her jumps being scored x4 times higher GOEs than Gracie's same 3Lz combo.
 

Eloise

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 17, 2014
Agree. I cannot see much difference between the two combos (but I am not figure skating judge...)
 

SimplyAFan

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 1, 2014
I'm just glad we can have this discussion. Until about a month ago, it was considered fact that Kim was going to win. With Julia's European title, her performance in the team event, and the fact that she's Russian (sadly, this will be a factor) there will be a real competition. Quite frankly, I like it better that way because it makes it 10x more exciting to watch (although I'm always excited to watch skating!!).

I will say this though: the individual event at the Olympics is an entirely different animal. There are a lot of factors at play here. Julia just competed 2 programs and now has to get right back to practicing even though there is probably a demand for her with the international press right now, which she is less used to than Yuna. Maybe Julia has more momentum at this point. She has the home crowd support, although these two are about equal so far in handling pressure. However, nerves could still be a factor here. Yuna is sitting back watching the team event take place and seeing the scores Julia got and how she performed. She knows what Julia is capable of. Until recently, she knows she's been the clear favorite to win and maybe knowing someone is right on her heels will throw her off. Also, Yuna hasn't competed in high level competition in almost a year. On the other hand, Julia has never competed against Kim and may be thrown off by her, especially if she skates right after Yuna and hears marks that she may or may not be able to beat. Another thing to think about, when Julia stepped on the ice for her FS in the team event, she knew that gold medal was already around her neck and she had her team to back her up if something went wrong. She won't have that luxury this time. Just some food for thought here.

But then again they're both amazing and could easily rise to the occasion. I just hope we see a really competitive ladies event and the honestly best 3 land on the podium.
 

GF2445

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 7, 2012
Its going to be close! But if Yuna skates to her potential, she will win over Julia.
There is an obvious rawness in Julia's skating that only time and maturity will fix. There are things that Julia is earning that should not be earned. Yuna skates like a mature woman and she fully owns the program and that is the greatest difference.
 

yuki90

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
comparing Julia to Carolina Zhang is insulting
Zhang may be flexible but that is all their similarities

the doom and gloom about Julia has been predicting since she was 13 :rolleye:
first, she has better edges than Zhang , Zhang was slower, Zhang had terrible technique on her jumps and that hammertoe mule kick !
and by 15 Zhang was already declining, Julia has kept on improving
Julia's lutz is borderline and aren't taht severe as some people make it out to be
Julia's axels are like Lipinski's but she lands them and it has improved over the years, it gets more height now as are all her jumps, her flip height is solid
so your propagandas are all false

No. The mechanism of Julia's jumps is quite similar to Zhang.
They jump by using their lightness and flexibility not the speed and height.
When YuNa was 15, her distance and height of her jumps is almost same now.
Mabey Zhang's take off is ugly than Julia but Julia pre-rotates almost 270 degree on the ice which is really bad take off and cheating.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
No. The mechanism of Julia's jumps is quite similar to Zhang.
They jump by using their lightness and flexibility not the speed and height.
When YuNa was 15, her distance and height of her jumps is almost same now.
Mabey Zhang's take off is ugly than Julia but Julia pre-rotates almost 270 degree on the ice which is really bad take off and cheating.

so ? just because Queen Yuna had the jumps and ditance she has now doesnt mean other skaters will have the same techniques and jumps at a younger age. which does it say pre rotating in cheating ? then Mao Asada cheats on her jumps then

the propagandas are all false
 

yuki90

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
so ? just because Queen Yuna had the jumps and ditance she has now doesnt mean other skaters will have the same techniques and jumps at a younger age. which does it say pre rotating in cheating ? then Mao Asada cheats on her jumps then

the propagandas are all false

you dont even know ISU rule about pre rotation.we'll see when Julia has body change.Im sure Julia and Zhang's mechanism is quite similar.
and you know what? go Youtube and watch Mao's 2005 GPF when she was 15, she didnt pre-rotate her jumps almost 270 degree and her jumps were much higher, light, beautiful and wayyyyyyy better than Julia's jumps.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
you dont even know ISU rule about pre rotation.we'll see when Julia has body change.Im sure Julia and Zhang's mechanism is quite similar.
and you know what? go Youtube and watch Mao's 2005 GPF when she was 15, she didnt pre-rotate her jumps almost 270 degree and her jumps were much higher, light, beautiful and wayyyyyyy better than Julia's jumps.

right, because Zhang was on top at 14 or even at 15 amongst the elite skaters
 

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!
Record Breaker
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May 19, 2011
You guys make me laugh. :laugh: Reading this thread I imagine two 10 year olds on a playground having a "Nah-uh/Uh-huh" argument. :laugh::popcorn:
 

jenaj

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Country
United-States
you dont even know ISU rule about pre rotation.we'll see when Julia has body change.Im sure Julia and Zhang's mechanism is quite similar.
and you know what? go Youtube and watch Mao's 2005 GPF when she was 15, she didnt pre-rotate her jumps almost 270 degree and her jumps were much higher, light, beautiful and wayyyyyyy better than Julia's jumps.

How does someone pre-rotate their jumps 270 degrees? I know Julia is flexible but she's not a corkscrew.
 

Sackie

Medalist
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
After what has happened so far with the scores I can see Julia in 1st, Yuna in 2nd and Gracie in 3rd. Think the ones who are going to get dinged because of the 'planned results' are Mao and Kostner.
 

HalfTriple

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 8, 2010
I'm just glad we can have this discussion. Until about a month ago, it was considered fact that Kim was going to win. With Julia's European title, her performance in the team event, and the fact that she's Russian (sadly, this will be a factor) there will be a real competition. Quite frankly, I like it better that way because it makes it 10x more exciting to watch (although I'm always excited to watch skating!!).

I will say this though: the individual event at the Olympics is an entirely different animal. There are a lot of factors at play here. Julia just competed 2 programs and now has to get right back to practicing even though there is probably a demand for her with the international press right now, which she is less used to than Yuna. Maybe Julia has more momentum at this point. She has the home crowd support, although these two are about equal so far in handling pressure. However, nerves could still be a factor here. Yuna is sitting back watching the team event take place and seeing the scores Julia got and how she performed. She knows what Julia is capable of. Until recently, she knows she's been the clear favorite to win and maybe knowing someone is right on her heels will throw her off. Also, Yuna hasn't competed in high level competition in almost a year. On the other hand, Julia has never competed against Kim and may be thrown off by her, especially if she skates right after Yuna and hears marks that she may or may not be able to beat. Another thing to think about, when Julia stepped on the ice for her FS in the team event, she knew that gold medal was already around her neck and she had her team to back her up if something went wrong. She won't have that luxury this time. Just some food for thought here.

But then again they're both amazing and could easily rise to the occasion. I just hope we see a really competitive ladies event and the honestly best 3 land on the podium.

At this point, having "a real competition" is irrelevant as you have observed the judging pattern centering on Julia this season. It has more to do with the ISU's shifted position. In a larger picture it indicates the ISU's desperate politics, now that Kim, Asada and more are retiring soon, which their COP system will be more vulnerable than ever and exposed to the dissenters' attack. Kim has been in virtual retirement, and in the post-Kim, there is a vacuum of figurehead in the ladies who can advocate the COP like Kim did since few ladies are able to land triples in competition. Thus Julia is a savior to the ISU although her qualities might not be good enough. In this context the ISU lavishes her with kudos. But by so doing, the ISU made a critical mistake; their arbitrary judging in fact dismantles the COP principle and its very foundation rooted in fairness and accuracy in evaluating skating. It also shows inventing a mathematical system or any system of precision will be meaningless unless the operator is willing to remain neutral and adhere to the principle of competition. What is more important is that the quality skating the COP promotes has been compromised due to the recent arbitrary judging and by applying different yardsticks to skaters it is in essence a judging fraud.
 

tokugawaice

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Based on past competition results I don't see Yuna breaking 150 even with a perfect program, I see Yuna maxing out around 148-149. I say this because I don't see the judges giving Yuna any 'additional' boosts if 148-149 has already been shown to be a 'fair' score for a perfect Yuna program. I don't necessarily think there is some massive judging conspiracy or fixing going on, but I do think judges may feel pressured to have Julia do well in her home country. Julia has the benefit of not having a track record of scores to compare against, which make me think Julia is a complete wildcard, and given how the judges may have been 'testing the waters' at the team competition with almost little to no media backlash at the result I'm wondering how high Julia's score can go? I could see her PCS going up another 3-4 points, so assuming she gets 4 points in the PCS and superior GOEs I can see her score going up another 4 points on PCS and 6 points on GOE, leaving her at 151-152. The 2-3 point margin over Yuna in the LP may be what gets Julia to the OGM if Yuna beats her in the SP by 1 or 2 points. Thoughts?
 

HalfTriple

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 8, 2010
Based on past competition results I don't see Yuna breaking 150 even with a perfect program, I see Yuna maxing out around 148-149. I say this because I don't see the judges giving Yuna any 'additional' boosts if 148-149 has already been shown to be a 'fair' score for a perfect Yuna program. I don't necessarily think there is some massive judging conspiracy or fixing going on, but I do think judges may feel pressured to have Julia do well in her home country. Julia has the benefit of not having a track record of scores to compare against, which make me think Julia is a complete wildcard, and given how the judges may have been 'testing the waters' at the team competition with almost little to no media backlash at the result I'm wondering how high Julia's score can go? I could see her PCS going up another 3-4 points, so assuming she gets 4 points in the PCS and superior GOEs I can see her score going up another 4 points on PCS and 6 points on GOE, leaving her at 151-152. The 2-3 point margin over Yuna in the LP may be what gets Julia to the OGM if Yuna beats her in the SP by 1 or 2 points. Thoughts?

Anything possible. But I tend to think that rather than further boosting Julia's scores, the ISU would prefer Kim's or other veterans' flawed performances, which makes it look less controversial for Julia's win if she skates as she did; because everything looks overstretched as of now already.
 
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