Four More Years for Wagner | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Four More Years for Wagner

NYscorp6

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Country
United-States
She never talked about retiring… I don't know if she will do 4 more years per say, but I think she will keep skating as long as she is successful.

I agree, 4 years is a long time, her results in the next year or so will play a big part in her future decisions and rightly so.
 

Jammers

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Country
United-States
A big question has to be coaching. John Nicks will be 85 this year. If he finally retires who does Ashley go to? Rafael Arutyunyan is a good technical coach but she will need someone to help polish up her skating.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
she'll get a wake up call and retire once Gracie starts beating her in every competition
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
I would love to see Gracie try triple axels and quad toes. With huge height on her jumps and the fast speed on the ice, it shouldn't be too difficult for her.

I don't think Gracie's axel is at a point where she can attempt triple axels. Her toe loop however has pretty decent height. If she had a speed of rotation of a Lipnitskaia, I could picture her capable of it. Her quads would look similar to Kevin Reynolds... not a ton of height but fast rotation and an upright landing.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
I predict this will (finally) be the first international comp where she is beaten by Gold.

I think so too. It's a big competition to lose to Gold at, but then again, it's hard to say if Gold can maintain her consistency post-Olympics (I mean, look at Mirai).
 

desertskates

Medalist
Joined
Nov 19, 2013
And if Gracie outscores her here, being #2 is not terribly shabby. They could go back and forth for quite some time, but it gives us two relatively strong ladies. And we will watch Polina grow into a senior as well!!
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Skaters like Butyrskaya are the exception not the norm.

Not the norm, yes... but there are many many more. Suzuki? Arakawa? Slutskaya?

22/23 being "old" is ridiculous. Look at what Suzuki, Plushenko, and S/S (and S/Z in 2010) have done at their ages.

Kostner was 25 when she won Worlds.
 

louisa05

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Though it is possible that next four years will be Gracie Gold's.:p

And eight years ago, we all thought the next four would belong to Kimmie Meissner. Four years later, she wasn't even at Nationals.

I think the best bet in ladies is to assume nothing.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
And eight years ago, we all thought the next four would belong to Kimmie Meissner. Four years later, she wasn't even at Nationals.

I think the best bet in ladies is to assume nothing.

Agreed. People also slated Sasha to be a multiple World Champion, Kwan to win the Olympics, etc.

I think 3 years ago, people also would have said Chan has the OGM locked up, but clearly he does not with Hanyu starting to find his stride.
 

Zamboni

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 10, 2013
Agreed. People also slated Sasha to be a multiple World Champion, Kwan to win the Olympics, etc.

I think 3 years ago, people also would have said Chan has the OGM locked up, but clearly he does not with Hanyu starting to find his stride.

I loved Sasha, but she SHOULD have won multiple Worlds. The judges really wanted her to win. But she seemed to have a brain-freeze during long programs, as if she just couldn't concentrate that long. She even fell on a spin once at Worlds.

Beautiful skater but well, things happen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmar_F2cBow
 

Rachmaninoff

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 10, 2011
I think the best bet in ladies is to assume nothing.

Yep, I'd expand that to the other disciplines as well, particularly when talking about younger skaters.

As for Ashley, best wishes to her, and I'd be happy to see her find her best success at a later age, ala Kostner and Suzuki. It won't be easy, but it's been done.
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Gracie's already shown that she can do clean 7 triples in international event. She's now US #1. No doubt about that.
They are cracking down Ashley's PCS big time. If your PCS drop by 2 points at the Olympics, the sign is on the wall.
It's over for her. The judges decided for her.

Time to apply to Georgetown while you're still hot.
 

tulosai

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
As a preliminary statement I respect Wagner and the strides she's made and I wish her well. However, I agree with others that she has probably hit her peak as a skater. She may prove me wrong (she has before- I never thought she'd break through even to the level she currently is) but I think odds are strongly against it. I don't think she is DEFINITELY old to still make things happen, but I think some posters are overstating the odds of it- 23 IS old for a ladies skater, exceptions aside. Those exceptions are exceptions, and the fact that you can list 5+ people 23 and under for every one over 23 competing is not some random coincidence.

Separate from age, though, I just don't really see her going much further. It is related to age to some degree, sure... certain things I am about to list I would think she had more chance to improve is she were 15 or 16 or even 18 or 20, and the dynamic of these things is different since she surely is approaching the last potential quad of her career even if everything went ideally and she was the rare maria B who had her best few years after age 25. It is also related to politics to some degree. The USA is not going to want to keep pushing her if they have someone better to push, especially if she can't win a world medal, and it is looking like that someone better is coming on up.

But yeah, the reasons I don't see her going much further (and keeping in mind, I think where she has gotten IS IMPRESSIVE. She is at the TIPPY TOP of the second tier (or at least was for 2 whole sesaons) and that is NOT to be scoffed at, especially considering where she came from)

-International results. Stagnated, and now are declining. Could she maybe turn this around? Yes. But it would probably require the fed to be backing her 100% (which if GG can start to deliver consistently is unlikely) and would definitely require her to get more inspired and better programs.
-In keeping with this, her PCS have stagnated and declined. She is a powerful skater and technician bt if she wants to do better internationally she needs to either emote more and connect more with the audience/ music or else have programs that BRILLIANTLY disguise her artistic weaknesses.
-Triple triple. She can't rotate it fully more than 50% of the time (generous estimate really, and the callers are generous with her on it too) and it is not of a high quality even when she eeks it out. To raise above her current level she needs to start not only hitting this consistently, but hitting it BETTER.
-Spin levels. All season, the level 4's have eluded her. This is one point I do think theoretically she SHOULD be able to fix, but then why hasn't she?

Again, I have NOTHING against Wagner, even if she isn't one of my favorites. I like her better than Gracie. But I think this is a realistic assessment. If I were her, I'd retire now (or maybe after Worlds) having accomplished my goal of going to the Olympics. I don't think things will get better for her from here.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
The reason I'm a bit optimistic for Ashley is that there isn't much depth in the US ladies at the moment. It isn't hard to imagine her among the top 3 nationally for at least a couple of years. I don't think she will ever medal at Worlds but it isn't out of the realm of possibility either because we sometimes see surprises on the podium (Leonova, Meissner, etc.)
 

guanchi

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 31, 2012
Ashley is in her prime...to do a reality show.
Srsly, like many believe, I feel like her best days are over. Gold is the undisputed no.1 US lady, but I don't think that it concerns Ash.
She now has endorsements, greater recognition, and that overblown "meme" has also further increased her visibility (tho not in a good way- it overshadows her skating).
So while she may never find great success on the ice, this Sochi coverage may be a launching pad for even greater financial success elsewhere.
 

amc987

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 12, 2012
I could see Ashley and Gracie going back and forth as US #1 for the next season or two. Gracie's done well since the start of 2014, but let's not forget that Ashley was the clear US #1 through the GPF. I agree that Gracie will probably not lose to Ashley once the former comes closer to her potential, but I don't think Gracie is there just yet. She's still developing artistically and while she has delivered cleaner skates this year, it's still rare for her to do a long program without a major mistake. Let's see how the individual event and Worlds turn out.
 
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