2014 Olympics Ladies Short Program | Page 4 | Golden Skate

2014 Olympics Ladies Short Program

CarneAsada

Medalist
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
I'd like to imagine that the judges would not overscore her combination so egregiously and so shamelessly when there is another skater with a big reputation (Gracie Gold's 3-3 should have scored higher in the Team FS but Kim actually has a reputation) doing the same 3Lz-3T but of much higher quality. Then again I like to imagine that Mao Asada and Carolina Kostner would skate an entire competition cleanly, so what do you know :slink:
 

Krislite

Medalist
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
That's not the point. Kim was given huge GOE as long as she was considered the favorite. Read GOE = favoritism. This time, in Russia, they have the home favorite. I think Lipnitskaya's emergence was "favorable" for Mao. Kim will feel much more pressure than before. For a skater who always relied on the judges favoritism, skating clean won't be enough against the home favorite who has higher technical content (7 triples FS) and much superior spins.

She was not the favorite at last year's Worlds. Carolina and Mao were much more favored. No matter how much you wish it, her GOE and PCS are not going to tank just because she's in Russia competing against a Russian. And I'm just a bit baffled as to why you think Lipnitskaya is considered THE bigger favorite? Against the reining World Champion and defending Olympic champion? It doesn't matter that the games are Russia--she's not "the favorite".
 

VirMo

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 28, 2013
That's not the point. Kim was given huge GOE as long as she was considered the favorite. Read GOE = favoritism. This time, in Russia, they have the home favorite. I think Lipnitskaya's emergence was "favorable" for Mao. Kim will feel much more pressure than before. For a skater who always relied on the judges favoritism, skating clean won't be enough against the home favorite who has higher technical content (7 triples FS) and much superior spins.

Clearly you can't judge the quality of jumps.

What is sad is that even this comment has some validity. GOE shouldn't be like a popularity vote, neither should PCS. What is sure is that Yuna has never won over another skater just because of judging bias, which is what seems to be happening now with Russian skaters. Yuna deserved every medal she earned.

I don't think Yuna was ever judges' favorite (maybe at the Nationals haha). Throughout her entire career Yuna struggled to earn her well-deserving points, especially early in her career, and she determined that she will have to hone her jumps so perfectly not to be subject to those biases. Yuna's jumps are technically perfect, and her perfect techniques are what's helping her to keep her consistency in jumps. It's physics. Physics is irrefutable. Yulia lacks the technicality but has the stamina and power going into jumps, and she is so light and she is able to manage to complete rotations and landing even with wonky take-offs and landings. If you have ever seen junior skating and find that smaller kids' jumps look lighter and spins faster, you would understand. Mao had a similar path - she had natural talent as in she was able to rotate so fast and hold onto her take-offs and landings but it didn't last and she had to completely re-learn her jumps. Such ability is lost with skaters' body deteriorates.
 

CarneAsada

Medalist
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
She was not the favorite at last year's Worlds. Carolina and Mao were much more favored. No matter how much you wish it, her GOE and PCS are not going to tank just because she's in Russia competing against a Russian. And I'm just a bit baffled as to why you think Lipnitskaya is considered THE bigger favorite? Against the reining World Champion and defending Olympic champion? It doesn't matter that the games are Russia--she's not "the favorite".
To add to this, Kim has an advantage over Asada of at least an extra clean triple - a 7 triple Asada with one 3A is still very capable of losing (in fact is likely to lose) against a 6 triple Kim. Mao's clean jumps (the clean ones, not the ones with 1/4 hooks at the end) typically score higher than Julia's clean jumps, so a 7 triple Julia has absolutely no advantage over a 6 triple Yuna, even in Russia.
 

Isabel_O'Reilly

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 30, 2013
Lip's 3Lz(overlooking e)+3T was given +1.4 GOE at the Team event. Kim's will be given about the same or alittle higher. I'm pretty sure Kim can't beat clean Lip in TES. But clean Mao can, of course.

Again, there's no reason to be insulting. Tiny, I mean really? I actually agree with those who don't understand with Gracie's 3-3 wasn't given +2s as well. She fulfilled the same things Julia did, recognizable footwork into, good height, good distance, good flow, and steps out of the combination. However, the people who are worrying about the GOE between Yuna and Yulia? One got 1.40 (when the tech panel ruled that there was not an edge change, just like a few other times this season) while Yuna receives 2.10. Yulia's edge is always borderline, not obvious this season, so it comes down to the call. When it was ruled a edge change like in the team event FS, loss of 1.00 points. When ruled in her favor like in the team event FS, +1.40. Exactly as it should be.
 

VirMo

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 28, 2013
To add to this, Kim has an advantage over Asada of at least an extra clean triple - a 7 triple Asada with one 3A is still very capable of losing (in fact is likely to lose) against a 6 triple Kim. Mao's clean jumps (the clean ones, not the ones with 1/4 hooks at the end) typically score higher than Julia's clean jumps, so a 7 triple Julia has absolutely no advantage over a 6 triple Yuna, even in Russia.

The difference about their compositions of jumps - Mao puts in her program what she may be able to pull off (but maybe not) - very risk-taking. Yulia attempts what she manages to not fail. Yuna only attempts what she can do perfectly - very risk-averse. Just in terms of jumps, setting Yuna as unchanging 100%, Mao can range between 80%~110%. If she didn't take risks, Mao would do a sure win of 95%. Honestly to me Yulia's maximum potential is below Mao and Yuna's.
 

VirMo

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 28, 2013
Again, there's no reason to be insulting. Tiny, I mean really? I actually agree with those who don't understand with Gracie's 3-3 wasn't given +2s as well. She fulfilled the same things Julia did, recognizable footwork into, good height, good distance, good flow, and steps out of the combination. However, the people who are worrying about the GOE between Yuna and Yulia? One got 1.40 (when the tech panel ruled that there was not an edge change, just like a few other times this season) while Yuna receives 2.10. Yulia's edge is always borderline, not obvious this season, so it comes down to the call. When it was ruled a edge change like in the team event FS, loss of 1.00 points. When ruled in her favor like in the team event FS, +1.40. Exactly as it should be.

I have never heard of anyone calling Yuna's lutz edge as borderline. Are you talking about her flips?

Yuna's flips are inside edge only that oftentimes it may not be clear because of her entry - same goes for all other skaters who does a 3-turn before flip, because they have to change from outside edge to inside edge before jumping a flip. Technical panel may miss it because it happens in a split-second and make an edge call. It is the similar to how some skaters get away with a wrong lutz edge because the panel misses the split-second changes from outside to inside edge when jumping lutz.
 

NMURA

Medalist
Joined
Jul 14, 2010
She was not the favorite at last year's Worlds. Carolina and Mao were much more favored. No matter how much you wish it, her GOE and PCS are not going to tank just because she's in Russia competing against a Russian. And I'm just a bit baffled as to why you think Lipnitskaya is considered THE bigger favorite? Against the reining World Champion and defending Olympic champion? It doesn't matter that the games are Russia--she's not "the favorite".

Yes, Kim was not the favorite in the SP last year. But treated that way in the FS, which lead to the super generous GOE. She won't be given that amount of GOE if she skated earlier in the FS or wasn't the first after the SP. She was just lucky. In Russia, she won't be given that amount of GOE anyway.

Again, there's no reason to be insulting. Tiny, I mean really? I actually agree with those who don't understand with Gracie's 3-3 wasn't given +2s as well.

I had the impression that Gold was "held down" because it was in Russia. So there's a strong reason to believe that Kim must face the same judging. Kim's "perfect" FS can score anywhere between 67-74 in the TES depending on the judges favors and moods.
 

miki88

Medalist
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
To add to this, Kim has an advantage over Asada of at least an extra clean triple - a 7 triple Asada with one 3A is still very capable of losing (in fact is likely to lose) against a 6 triple Kim. Mao's clean jumps (the clean ones, not the ones with 1/4 hooks at the end) typically score higher than Julia's clean jumps, so a 7 triple Julia has absolutely no advantage over a 6 triple Yuna, even in Russia.

I'm not so sure. Mao usually loses her advantage in BV when she gets deductions on some of her jumps. A scenario hasn't happened when she earned her entire planned BV. On the other hand, Julia is getting credited for all of her jumps, even her borderline flutzes are being overlooked and getting plus GOE imo. She also earns a lot of GOEs for her spins.
 

CNY_Skater

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 16, 2013
Certain skaters can beat Yuna Kim in TES with clean skate = You can outscore Michael Jordan if you take more FGs than he does and don't miss a lot. Easy to say, hard to pull off.
 

aragray

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 6, 2013
I feel like Mao performs better when she competes against Yuna for some reason.. coincidence? But I think she's developed more of a fighting spirit after the disappointing team result so i expect good things from her in the individual event :)
No idea what to expect from Yuna though, as she's had the tendency to save the best performance for the biggest competitions (or maybe it jsut feels that way as an audience member) but I think she will win the SP if all skate cleanly.
What I'm curious about is how the judges will score Julia against Adelina if both skate perfectly :confused:
 

Mista Ekko

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
I hope the fight for gold stays between the 2013 World podium ladies

I'm a fan of Lipnitskayas, But her PCS Shouldn't be over low 8's, And her +GOE should only be major on her Spins, And they do travel sometimes.
But being realistic, She's on the Podium, I hope Asada has 2 dream skates and wins this, But if she doesn't, I hope Olympic gold doesn't go to a toddler again, Seeing there
Are a few amazing Ladies who i'd rather see awarded, Even if it's Kim again.

I hope Wagner has the best competition ever!

I hope the final 2 groups after the SP consist of

Kim
Asada
Wagner
Kostner
Lipnitskaya
Gold
Sotnikova
Murakami
Suzuki
Osmond
Edmunds
Li

So much talent !!
I hope they all score over 63, Just to make this race pure quality and competitive till the end :yes:
 

NMURA

Medalist
Joined
Jul 14, 2010
Anyway, there's no reason to expect 74+ points TES from Kim always. It depends on the judging. Gold's near clean FS at the Team event could score 74 in the TES at US nationals. As I said, Kim is exactly in the position of Plushenko at Vancouver. Her relatively "early" skating order in the SP could be used as an excuse to make the game more "interesting".
 

MiRé

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
Anyway, there's no reason to expect 74+ points TES from Kim always. It depends on the judging. Gold's near clean FS at the Team event could score 74 in the TES at US nationals. As I said, Kim is exactly in the position of Plushenko at Vancouver. Her relatively "early" skating order in the SP could be used as an excuse to make the game more "interesting".

My god it's her world standing that made her skate relatively early. She's ranked 29th or something. this is the reason why shes skating early, not to make game more interesting. :bang:
 

Mista Ekko

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
My god it's her world standing that made her skate relatively early. She's ranked 29th or something. this is the reason why shes skating early, not to make game more interesting. :bang:

NMURA didn't say it was the reason, He\She merely said they think the judges might take advantage of that to lower her towards the pack (Like at worlds last year where she got 69 for a clean SP from an early group)
 

jkun

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 16, 2013
Yes, Kim was not the favorite in the SP last year. But treated that way in the FS, which lead to the super generous GOE. She won't be given that amount of GOE if she skated earlier in the FS or wasn't the first after the SP. She was just lucky. In Russia, she won't be given that amount of GOE anyway.



I had the impression that Gold was "held down" because it was in Russia. So there's a strong reason to believe that Kim must face the same judging. Kim's "perfect" FS can score anywhere between 67-74 in the TES depending on the judges favors and moods.

I honestly don't agree with the first part of your statement saying that Yuna was given generous GOE on her Worlds 2013 FS. I think that her jumps in that program are collectively, the best that has been done in a ladies' competition, in terms of quality. Especially her 3F. I think she deserved the GOE she got at that competition, and I think her GOE at Sochi will depend on the quality of her jumps.
 
Top