The art, the flow, the grace is gone | Page 2 | Golden Skate

The art, the flow, the grace is gone

RABID

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 17, 2013
Did I say Adelina was better than them? All I said was I don't think Adelina is that much different from Tara in 1998. And that the judges do have a history of awarding performances that weren't the most artistic or refined. Tara did not have better skating skills, artistry, refinement, or even jump quality (her jumps were really small) than Michelle but she managed to win because she had more difficult technical content and was really on her A game that night. I've heard some fans defend Tara 's win because Michelle was cautious, not as inspired. In my opinion, Michelle appeared far more inspired (esp in the short) than Kim. The most inspiring and artistic performances of the medalists was Carolina and my pick for the winner.

I have been reading a lot about YuNa's apparent uninspired skating in the Free. Let's get this straight; it isn't YuNa's lack of passion that is at fault here; it is/was the nature of her program; THE PROGRAM ITSELF lacks dynamism. It is a sophisticated program that requires multiple viewings which it never had. And the Short was a masterpiece that was underscored and ultimately led to her losing to Adelina...
 

kacalh03

Spectator
Joined
Feb 21, 2014
I have been reading a lot about YuNa's apparent uninspired skating in the Free. Let's get this straight; it isn't YuNa's lack of passion that is at fault here; it is/was the nature of her program; THE PROGRAM ITSELF lacks dynamism. It is a sophisticated program that requires multiple viewings which it never had. And the Short was a masterpiece that was underscored and ultimately led to her losing to Adelina...

I definitely see your point. I felt the same way with Oskana Baiul and Tara Lipinski Olympic programs. I didn't like them. However, I now look at them and see why the judges gave the marks that they did.

Unfortunately in figure skating, you only get that one moment. There's no repeat or replay. So you have to make a lasting impression to the judges at that moment.

Side note... one major difference for these two Olympics versus 2014 is that both Oskana and Tara went after Nancy and Michelle. I truly believe if everyone gave the exact program but switched the order, the results would have been reversed. There is a scoring bias for skaters who go later in the event.

This cannot be said for Yuna with the long program. However, it is definitely true regarding the short program. If Yuna had went in the last group and skated her short program, her lead would have been a lot larger which may have been enough to win again.
 

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!
Record Breaker
Joined
May 19, 2011
I have been reading a lot about YuNa's apparent uninspired skating in the Free. Let's get this straight; it isn't YuNa's lack of passion that is at fault here; it is/was the nature of her program; THE PROGRAM ITSELF lacks dynamism. It is a sophisticated program that requires multiple viewings which it never had. And the Short was a masterpiece that was underscored and ultimately led to her losing to Adelina...

I do think the lack of mileage on both programs hurt Yu-Na here. She hadn't competed at a major event all season long compared to Adelina who had two GPs, the final, nationals and Euros. The judges knew her programs, knew how she'd performed them all season and knew what to expect.

Had Yu-Na competed in the GP she'd have had momentum on her side and likely would have scored higher in both programs. Yu-Na's first performances usually set her base score for the season and in each outing she builds on it. I honestly didn't think Yu-Na's Bond performance in Vancouver was better than her performance at TEB that year yet she topped that score by several points.

A lot of skating is about momentum and, despite the fact Yu-Na is world champ, no one had really seen her all season long and I do think that hurt her scoring here.
 

Elaine

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
I do think the lack of mileage on both programs hurt Yu-Na here. She hadn't competed at a major event all season long compared to Adelina who had two GPs, the final, nationals and Euros. The judges knew her programs, knew how she'd performed them all season and knew what to expect.

Had Yu-Na competed in the GP she'd have had momentum on her side and likely would have scored higher in both programs. Yu-Na's first performances usually set her base score for the season and in each outing she builds on it. I honestly didn't think Yu-Na's Bond performance in Vancouver was better than her performance at TEB that year yet she topped that score by several points.

A lot of skating is about momentum and, despite the fact Yu-Na is world champ, no one had really seen her all season long and I do think that hurt her scoring here.

I agree with you but have another reason. I think Yuna's starting order in the SP hurt her more than I had expected it to do. And for her Bond performance, I'd pick the one at SA for the best. Anyway I mostly agree with you!
 

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!
Record Breaker
Joined
May 19, 2011
The starting order has something to do with it too but even that can be attributed to her not competing on the GP this year. She didn't have enough points to get her into the later groups b/c she didn't compete this year...:disapp:

SA was a great one :biggrin: But see? We both think that one of her previous performances outranked her Olympic performance even though the Olympic performance outscored both by 2 points.
 

ArgieFan

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 14, 2014
l want you remind you sore losers this is Olympics. And Olympics is not about shmartistry, but about sports, athleticism and energy. Please, fund your own Artistic Games and you will be rewarding grace and art. But not here.
The beauty, fluidity, grace, are the upper state of athleticism. Therefore, efficiency is always beautiful. This only can occur when the athlete absolutely dominates the technical side, automatically.

But, an athlete who can just do what to do ... not has place for aesthetics.

Because this, Yuna is aesthetics and Adelina is not.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
To me, seeing technical proficiency and difficulty performed is beautiful to watch. Artistry is artistry, but even an exceptionally executed technical skate should still be appreciated even if it is devoid of artistry. Just like many artistic skates without the high difficulty or errors can also be appreciated.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
I find it hilarious that all of a sudden Adelina doesn't have an artistic bone in her body when she has generally receive PCS scores just behind the top 3 all season, along with Akiko and Ashley when they have skated well. Somehow coming close to matching Yuna on PCS now makes her a sloppy, third tier skater.
 

Hanmgse

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 20, 2014
To me, seeing technical proficiency and difficulty performed is beautiful to watch. Artistry is artistry, but even an exceptionally executed technical skate should still be appreciated even if it is devoid of artistry. Just like many artistic skates without the high difficulty or errors can also be appreciated.

Couldn't agree more :agree:
 

Nadya

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
The beauty, fluidity, grace, are the upper state of athleticism. Therefore, efficiency is always beautiful. This only can occur when the athlete absolutely dominates the technical side, automatically.

But, an athlete who can just do what to do ... not has place for aesthetics.

Because this, Yuna is aesthetics and Adelina is not.
No they aren't, beauty is always, to a degree, a genetic accident. A skater with lean, slender legs and arms will always create more attractive lines on the ice. If a lady skater is on the short and stocky, muscular side, she will never have beautiful lines in arabesques and bielman spins no matter how hard she tries. She will also never be successful in the lyrical ballerina mold - a current preferred aesthetics of the sport. This is the sport that privileges the beautiful and the slender. This doesn't mean a stocky, muscular skater cannot score the most points under the rules currently in effect. That just means she won't look good while doing it, and the rulebook says it's OK.

Furthermore, in arabesques, for instance, beauty has nothing to do with efficiency. Kim can do a highly efficient arabesque spiral as far as gliding goes; but the lack of amplitude (genetic, to a degree) and turnout in her toe (negligence) make this move unsightly in her rendition.
 

usethis2

Medalist
Joined
Feb 11, 2014
Nonsense. Yuna Kim's body isn't exactly the most beautiful or beneficial to skating. She has achieved those lines through endless hours of practice and learning. And even then there are people who criticize her for her imperfect lines. (like yourself) You can easily check out Yuna Kim's "body lines" during her junior years. Or watch Zijun Li's skating tell me she need not improve on postures or moves because she's slender and cute.

It's not like Adelina's is ugly or anything. She has a beautiful body many girls would die for.
 

WeakAnkles

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
After Evan and now Adelina, you would think coaches would catch on to the formula the IJS promotes:

--Load that program up, baby. Not "never a dull moment," but "never a moment without something busybusybusy going on." The days of elegant simplicity are ovuh--welcome to the days of wretched excess!

--Stick a lot of difficult jumps in the second half. What do you think that bonus is for anyway?

--Choreography? We don't need no stinkin' choreography. Just make it look busybusybusy. And complicated. We like complicated steps. Especially if we can fool ourselves into believing they look "balletic."

--Music? Oh yeah. You should have some. We're not all that fussed about it, to tell the truth.

--Interpretation? If you make it busy enough, we'll be sure to think you're interpreting, well, something.
 

Nadya

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
Nonsense. Yuna Kim's body isn't exactly the most beautiful or beneficial to skating. She has achieved those lines through endless hours of practice and learning. And even then there are people who criticize her for her imperfect lines. (like yourself) You can easily check out Yuna Kim's "body lines" during her junior years. Or watch Zijun Li's skating tell me she need not improve on postures or moves because she's slender and cute.

It's not like Adelina's is ugly or anything. She has a beautiful body many girls would die for.
If Kim had Tonya Harding's body, she would never achieve beautiful lines, no matter how hard she'd try. I am not saying a slender-bodied person cannot improve their lines. Just that after a similar number of hours invested into training, a slender person will come out ahead of the stocky one in terms of beauty.

I'm hardly the only person criticizing Kim's spirals.
 

usethis2

Medalist
Joined
Feb 11, 2014
But Adelina is not Tonya harding? She has a beautiful body? More beautiful than Kim's, depending on the beholder?

Yet her lines are uglier and moves are unrefined compared to Kim. Can she improve? Absolutely.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
Nonsense. Yuna Kim's body isn't exactly the most beautiful or beneficial to skating.

I don't think this is accurate. She has long, slim, perfectly proportioned limbs. Her body automatically gives her the possibility of creating lines that other skaters simply can not and that slenderness allows her to more easily pull in tight for jumps.

But that's not a knock against her at all. Everyone in life has different talents.
 

usethis2

Medalist
Joined
Feb 11, 2014
You are probably right, BoP. Kim has unusually long legs and arms and they must help skating and artistry. I think her upper body is quite short, though - sometimes it looks as if her upper body were about as tall as the height of her head. That might be an illusion created by costumes, but IMO it is true that she has not been the most flexible skater. (and unduly criticized for it)

@Pangtongfan: I don't remember where but I think I've read your comments re: Putin in the audience during the women's FS. Is that true? I thought he was present only for the team event.
 

wootie

Match Penalty
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
After Evan and now Adelina, you would think coaches would catch on to the formula the IJS promotes:

--Load that program up, baby. Not "never a dull moment," but "never a moment without something busybusybusy going on." The days of elegant simplicity are ovuh--welcome to the days of wretched excess!

--Stick a lot of difficult jumps in the second half. What do you think that bonus is for anyway?

--Choreography? We don't need no stinkin' choreography. Just make it look busybusybusy. And complicated. We like complicated steps. Especially if we can fool ourselves into believing they look "balletic."

--Music? Oh yeah. You should have some. We're not all that fussed about it, to tell the truth.

--Interpretation? If you make it busy enough, we'll be sure to think you're interpreting, well, something.

This. Basically it's all about how much "stuff" you can pack into your program as opposed to the actual quality of it. Granted, sticking a lot of "stuff" into one's program is surely difficult, but does it actually make the program "better?" Based on Evan and Adelina's offerings, the answer is a resounding NO. Both of them are gifted technically (sort of), but the minute their programs are over, you don't remember a single thing about them except for the amount of "stuff" that was going on in both programs. It's actually a bit tiring watching skaters like them because it's not like you're really watching a program so much as a checklist of tons of things jam-packed into a few minutes.
 

usethis2

Medalist
Joined
Feb 11, 2014
Yes Putin was in the audience for the ladies final. Apparently he already knew something good was about to happen, hours before it did. It was quite a striking combination of things to witness prior to the free program even getting underway. Putin, Shekhovtseva, Balkov, and a Russian technical caller. I would have been more subtle in hiding everything, but that isnt the Russian way I guess.

Thank you.
 
Top