Best thing about this result- Michelle Kwan's lack of Olympic Gold now means nothing

Best thing about this result- Michelle Kwan's lack of Olympic Gold now means nothing

As a Michelle Kwan diehard fan I used to be bothered that her lack of an Olympic Gold hurt her career. Well after yesterday it officialy means nothing. The value of an Olympic Gold or any medals/titles won in figure skating is now close to nothing, and basically your greatness and how you are remembered as a skater is purely how good a skater the general public and experts knew you were. Olympic Gold winners arent even usually the right people either, and you could easily argue her winning both Olympics she medalled at with proper judging. While neither was the huge scandal this one is, it also suddenly makes her lack of an Olympic Gold meaningless as Olympic Gold winner is often as much about politics, bribery, fraud, bloc judging, luck, campaigning, biased judging, as it actual skating, and that has to apply to her and her lack of an Olympic Gold as well. People will now see Michelle Kwan and her lack of an Olympic Gold in a new light and it wont even be something held against her any longer.

Wonderful. Neither does Mao's, given the way she gave the LP performance everyone will watch 24 years from now. Midori Ito '88, '92 anyone?

pangtongfan said:

As a Michelle Kwan diehard fan I used to be bothered that her lack of an Olympic Gold hurt her career. Well after yesterday it officialy means nothing. The value of an Olympic Gold or any medals/titles won in figure skating is now close to nothing, and basically your greatness and how you are remembered as a skater is purely how good a skater the general public and experts knew you were. Olympic Gold winners arent even usually the right people either, and you could easily argue her winning both Olympics she medalled at with proper judging. While neither was the huge scandal this one is, it also suddenly makes her lack of an Olympic Gold meaningless as Olympic Gold winner is often as much about politics, bribery, fraud, bloc judging, luck, campaigning, biased judging, as it actual skating, and that has to apply to her and her lack of an Olympic Gold as well. People will now see Michelle Kwan and her lack of an Olympic Gold in a new light and it wont even be something held against her any longer.

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Don't you think this is a little more dramatic? I don't remember a scandal like that for one for her medals (silver-bronze)

pangtongfan said:

As a Michelle Kwan diehard fan I used to be bothered that her lack of an Olympic Gold hurt her career. Well after yesterday it officialy means nothing. The value of an Olympic Gold or any medals/titles won in figure skating is now close to nothing, and basically your greatness and how you are remembered as a skater is purely how good a skater the general public and experts knew you were. Olympic Gold winners arent even usually the right people either, and you could easily argue her winning both Olympics she medalled at with proper judging. While neither was the huge scandal this one is, it also suddenly makes her lack of an Olympic Gold meaningless as Olympic Gold winner is often as much about politics, bribery, fraud, bloc judging, luck, campaigning, biased judging, as it actual skating, and that has to apply to her and her lack of an Olympic Gold as well. People will now see Michelle Kwan and her lack of an Olympic Gold in a new light and it wont even be something held against her any longer.

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People who try to downplay her accomplishments are the only ones who point the fact that she never won Olympic gold but that never stopped her from being one of the most famous/successful figure skaters in history even today. Way before Adelina winning gold, the gold medal didn't mean anything. It's one night of a skater's life...and if you have a career that can only be defined by one win that means you got very lucky on that night. A skater can't be defined solely by whether they won Olympic gold or not; to borrow the USFSA's reasoning, it's about the body of work. Michelle's body of work over the course of her career far exceeds an Olympic gold medal.

Olympic gold is overrated simply b/c it's the Olympics and it only comes around once every 4 years. People don't seem to realize that Yu-Na's victory in Vancouver was not the norm...it was the exception. If you count back through the years it's very rare that the person everyone expected to win actually won. The Olympics are usually like they were this year: some underdog having their day and finishing ahead of the favorites. Again, this is nothing new.

Kudos to Adelina for delivering and having her moment. If she is unable to ever win anything again, she'll fall into the category of flash-in-the-pan skaters who people will only talk about once every 4 years. But if she stays in, competes, continues to collect medals and have those kinds of moments, that's what she'll be remembered for...rather than the girl who had the great skate at the Sochi Olympics and was given the gold.

I've always said that Kwan would do more for the idea of 'olympic gold medal' than 'olympic god medal' could do for Kwan. I also feel that way about Kurt Browning and a bunch of others.

It will be if Sotnikova's career crashes faster than Sarah Hughes'--a very likely scenario, considering she never won a gold medal at the Grand Prix or Worlds by comparison. She's apparently skipping Worlds. That would be bad for her, as this is her best chance to secure a World title.

No ladies Olympic champion in the post-Witt era besides Kim managed to muster any motivation and drive to pursue another World title or Olympic gold in the seasons following their gold medal. They all retired swiftly, Yamaguchi, Baiul, Lipinski, Hughes, Arakawa. She's gonna find it very hard to stay on top against the other Russian girls and even against Gold et al.

Krislite said:

It will be if Sotnikova's career crashes faster than Sarah Hughes'--a very likely scenario, considering she never won a gold medal at the Grand Prix or Worlds by comparison. She's apparently skipping Worlds. That would be bad for her, as this is her best chance to secure a World title.

No ladies Olympic champion in the post-Witt era besides Kim managed to muster any motivation and drive to pursue another World title or Olympic gold in the seasons following their gold medal. They all retired swiftly, Yamaguchi, Baiul, Lipinski, Hughes, Arakawa. She's gonna find it very hard to stay on top against the other Russian girls and even against Gold et al.

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I just read something where she said she wanted to stay in and continue to compete, including worlds next month. Sounds like the gold gave her motivation to keep going. She's always been a podium threat but her nerves kept her out of it. Now, with her getting the hang of competing and all of the big names stepping away, the field is open wider for her to have a better shot at the podium.

Her career isn't too shabby right now (world junior champ, 4-time national champ, 2-time Euro silver medalist, half a dozen GP medals) but, in interest of semi-validating her highly contested win here, it'd be better for her legacy if she continues to compete for several more years and adds some titles to her resume. Motivation is a factor though...we'll have to see if she can maintain her go-get-em attitude in the seasons to come.

That's because they all wanted to cash in. They weren't in it for the long haul. Some even got injured, preventing a comeback---but I think some were afraid they couldn't keep up or even viewed their wins privately as really lucky moments.

"Best thing about this result- Michelle Kwan's lack of Olympic Gold now means nothing"
Tell that to Tara Lipinski LOL. She seems like she's still probably rubbing it in Michelle's face that she won in Nagano. Remember what she said yesterday: the skater that wins skates with heart. Tara seems so caught up in her win, and that was 16 years ago. It's just annoying when U.S. Figure Skating brings together all past Olympics champions, many of whom did nothing for the sport, or when Scott Hamilton celebrates his "anniversary" on twitter like it was something significant (think of how obnoxious it would be if Michael Phelps celebrated all his anniversaries...rofl)....and Michelle can't participate in those moments. Though she was far more beloved, far more accomplished, and a true icon.

I think had social media existed back in 1998, much more would have been said about the result. Same for 2002. Social media, the ability of everyone to get their voice heard, plays a huge difference. I was surprised how shocked and upset Scott and Sandra were when Sale and Peltier lost in 2002 though... it seems like this time around they didn't have a chance really to say more. I bet that probably has more to do with the precarious position of figure skating now (esp with respect to American viewership), as opposed to 2002 when Michelle Kwan and the Americans were at the top of the sport.

I wish Michelle had won gold, but those past results make sense. This outcome this time around should make her feel better about her accomplishments, and see first hand (for the first time, I think, as a spectator) that the best skater doesn't always win. And that it is a crapshoot.

I've always thought that Michelle not winning the OGM was what gave us fans so many years of wonderful skating. Had she won in 1998, she may not have stayed competitive and had she won in 2002, she may have retired.

That longevity with all those years of great performances is what people remember, not an OGM.

pangtongfan said:

No her losses were not scandalous like Sotnikova beating Kim and Kostner was. I acknowledged that. .

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Sorry, I must respectfully disagree. After reading Jon Jackson's book on how figure skating judging is rigged, I went back and watched Irina's Olympic free skate, and more importantly, the listened to the commentators' remarks. While no one argues that Sarah had the skate of her life, under the old system, that didn't matter. There is no way Irina beat MK. Scotty was in shock, said so and so did his sidekick. He tried to make excuses for Irina...commenting on the height of her jumps. His sidekick's (Sandra?) words still haunt me..."BUT THEY WEREN'T CLEAN, SCOTT!"
Now we have a case where 4 comm bloc judges were seated on the panel. One is a known convicted cheat and one is the wife of the Russian Federation President.
Look at ISU communication 1692, for instance, which is the qualified judges for the 2011-2012 season and their countries of origin. Pleanty to pick from.
Scott Hamilton said it best on the Today show this morning...to paraphrase...the problem isn't the new scoring system, the problem is in who picks the judges

Re: Krislite's examples of Olympians who retired immediately post their OGMs:
Actually Yamaguchi did go for another world championship in 1992 following her OGM in Albertville, defended her world title in SF, which happened to be her hometown. Then went on to pursue a fantastic career in professionals. She easily could have gone for a second gold in 1994 but like you said the motivation wasn't there any more.

joynara said:

Re: Krislite's examples of Olympians who retired immediately post their OGMs:
Actually Yamaguchi did go for another world championship in 1992 following her OGM in Albertville, defended her world title in SF, which happened to be her hometown. Then went on to pursue a fantastic career in professionals. She easily could have gone for a second gold in 1994 but like you said the motivation wasn't there any more.

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I said "...in the seasons following their gold medal" for a reason. Yamaguchi second world title was in the same Olympic season.

Point taken, but I'd still argue Yamaguchi doesn't belong with Baiul, Lipinski, Hughes or Arakawa, not when you look what she's accomplished in her professional career and who she was up against (eg. Midori for one thing). She was as fiercely competitive as she was as an amateur, and I never saw that kind of determination, drive or work ethic from the others post-OGMs. Granted, the professional circuit had changed a lot by the time they came along, but I never got the sense they'd have done as well as Yamaguchi even with the same opportunities.

As soon as I saw who was on the FS panel, I knew who the winner was going to be. I was pretty sure there were going to be two Russian ladies on that podium, until Lipnitskaia splatted again. If Yulia had skated the FS the way she did in the team event, Carolina would have been fourth for sure.

Here were Adelina's FS scores from her last three performances
140.24 66.86 73.38 9.11 9.04 9.21 9.32 9.18 Russian Championships, all clean, first combo 3z+3lo
131.63 62.03 69.60 8.64 8.50 8.75 8.86 8.75 Euros-missed first combo
149.95 75.54 74.41 9.18 8.96 9.43 9.50 9.43 Olympics, all clean, first combo 3z+3t

Kind of amazing that her Olympic FS had a higher score in every category than her nationals. When does that ever happen?

joynara said:

Point taken, but I'd still argue Yamaguchi doesn't belong with Baiul, Lipinski, Hughes or Arakawa, not when you look what she's accomplished in her professional career and who she was up against (eg. Midori for one thing). She was as fiercely competitive as she was as an amateur, and I never saw that kind of determination, drive or work ethic from the others post-OGMs. Granted, the professional circuit had changed a lot by the time they came along, but I never got the sense they'd have done as well as Yamaguchi even with the same opportunities.

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I was not trying to group Yamaguchi with the others based on "accomplishments". Good lord no, she was better than the others for sure (well, besides Arakawa). I was merely pointing out that for most ladies there is no more competitive career after your first Olympic gold medal. And that's not going to suddenly change with Sotnikova in particular because the root cause (motivation) is the same and she faces much tougher competition in the years ahead.

She would be wise to retire, in my opinion. If she goes to Worlds, she could end up off the podium, like last year.

Krislite said:

It will be if Sotnikova's career crashes faster than Sarah Hughes'--a very likely scenario, considering she never won a gold medal at the Grand Prix or Worlds by comparison. She's apparently skipping Worlds. That would be bad for her, as this is her best chance to secure a World title.

No ladies Olympic champion in the post-Witt era besides Kim managed to muster any motivation and drive to pursue another World title or Olympic gold in the seasons following their gold medal. They all retired swiftly, Yamaguchi, Baiul, Lipinski, Hughes, Arakawa. She's gonna find it very hard to stay on top against the other Russian girls and even against Gold et al.

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jenaj said:

She would be wise to retire, in my opinion. If she goes to Worlds, she could end up off the podium, like last year.

Also, Yamaguchi went to Worlds and won after she won her OGM.

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I knew that, which is why I said "...in the seasons following their Olympic gold medal."

The Olympic gold medal never meant anything more than this, that the skater won that particular competition. I do not begrudge Tara and Sarah their medals -- they skated well and won the prize.

Unfortunately for the mental health of skaters and fans, the Olympics Games are blown up to huge proportions as an entertainment extravaganza and a chance for grandstanding by politicians, which results in skaters saying, "I have invested 15 years of my life for these four minutes. If I don't win the gold medal it will be like I never lived."

Yamaguchi was the last ladies OGM winner who went to Worlds after her win, then she retired after that. It remains to be seen if Sotnikova will go to 2014 Worlds.

I remember reading about Kristi's decision to turn pro, and she was quite candid about it. She sat down with her financial advisors (i.e., her uncle), and they worked out how much money she would earn by going pro versus staying in for two more years and trying for Lillehammer. It worked out to be about the same -- and the rest is history, as Kristi went on to become the all-time greatest U.S. lady entertainer on ice.