Cohen's Swan Lake #2 | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Cohen's Swan Lake #2

Joined
Aug 3, 2003
I knew there would be one of these threads, lol. I wasn't going to look at the board, especially after 6-1/2 hours of watching skating nonstop--didn't eat dinner till midnight, lol. But I'll throw in my opinions on Wagner's redo of "Swan Lake," or as I call it, "Swan Puddle," and the neverending discussion of the figure skating version of "Why Can't Johhny Read," which apparently is entitled, "Why Can't Sasha Skate a Clean LP?"

Seriously, I think Sasha's new "Swan Lake" costume said a lot. Just not much there. I understand Robin Wagner's strategy of taking out a lot of the detail, with the idea being sacrifice choreographic complexity in the hopes that it would allow Sasha to make a break-through in both consistency and passion of performance of her LP in high-stake competitions, specifically Nats and Worlds. I also think it was an intelligent strategy. Had Sasha skated "Swan Puddle" with the kind of fire and accuracy she skated "Malaguena," hitting all her elements, even if she still hadn't won over Shizuka, I think the consensus would be, "Wagner's changes to 'Swan Lake' suck, but it did allow Sasha to skate an exciting, mistake-free LP at Worlds. So it was probably the right thing to do. Now Sasha knows what it feels like and they can work on making her programs more difficult and interesting." But that's not what happened.

In the end, Sasha skated Tarasova's super-packed Trophee Lalique version of "Swan Lake" as well as she skated Wagner's totally gutted version. I think Wagner was right to try this approach, but I think Sasha's problems with laying down a great LP at Nats and Worlds is something other than a simple concentration problem, an attitude problem of thinking about winning, or any of the "if Sasha would just" problems people tend to throw out. I mean really, Sasha has worked with three top coaches on this consistency problem: John Nicks, Tarasova, and now Wagner. If it were a matter of "If Sasha would just..." ONE of them would have helped her make significant strides in overcoming it. Also, Sasha works too hard to sabotage herself by letting herself be overcome with thoughts of "Must win! Must win!" like a Night of the Living Dead zombie. When she was 17, yeah, I think that was part of the problem. But Plush also lost his first bid for Worlds because, as he said himself, he was thinking "too much about medal, not enough about skating" and that was the last time we saw him make that mistake. Sasha is too good a skater and too hard a worker for me to buy that she is that dumb.

Piel said the way Dick and Peggy described Wagner's strategy made it sound like Sasha had ADD or something. Well, maybe Sasha does have ADD or something. ADD (attention deficit disorder) or some other neurocognitive problem is nothing to be ashamed of. [Edited to add: Piel, I know, of course, that you didn't mean that to be a criticism of Sasha:).] I speculated on another thread that if Sasha did not skate well with a simplified version of "Swan Lake," that she might have something like (and I coined this term loosely) "kinesthetic dyslexia." What I meant is that just as dyslexia has nothing to do with intelligence or effort, it seems to me that with all the work, focus, and different approaches Sasha has tried to overcome her consistency problems that whatever her problem is, it doesn't seem to have anything to do with concentration, intelligence, or having the right attitude. Just as dyslexia and ADD are beyond the individual's ability to overcome them just by trying harder or really, beyond the individual's control period, it's entirely possible that Sasha has just such a problem.

Shepherd Clark has dyslexia and has been very open about having it and how it has affected his skating. I'm sure there are people who still believe Shepherd is just using dyslexia as an excuse for *just not being able to cut it.* But the guy has always been a gorgeous skater, worked hard, and had great coaches, but his dyslexia made it so he could never be consistent. He kept competing and going to Nationals long after he would have had any chance to go to Worlds even if he had medalled, so in the long run his behavior shows that he skates because he truly loves skating. To me, Clark's dyslexia is no different from a skater with a chronic injury who can never fulfill his potential because of a physical anomaly. But in general, we still tend to think of people with neurocognitive disorders as having some kind of character defect. It's also part of our culture, our *anybody can pull himself up by his own bootstraps if he really wants to* attitude.

Another skater who got criticized for being a *choker* was Scott Davis, even though it turned out that he had an inner ear disorder that caused him to have vertigo. Just what a skater needs. Davis was an exceptionally fast spinner and whether his spinning abilities aggravated a pre-existing condition or caused the inner ear problem altogether is not known. But again the tendency was to blame the skater for having a poor character rather than try to understand the disorder. When Naomi Nari Nam's hip was damaged from so much jumping, I don't recall reading *If NNN would just...* kinds of posts. But somehow when it's a problem with consistency, which at the very least involves the most complex and least understood organ in the body--the brain--we seem to jump to simple conclusions when, IMO, the reasons for inconsistency in an otherwise extremely gifted skater seem far more complex than the mechanics of musculoskeltal overuse injuries. BTW, I don't at all mean to jump on anyone's case; I've been guilty of doing the same thing and will probably be guilty of it again.

Wagner's undergrad degree is in psychology, which in terms of coaching Sasha could be a plus or a minus, or both. It could be a plus in that RW should be aware of various psychological factors affecting consistency. OTOH, RW may feel she can handle Sasha's consistency problems all by herself when, IMO, Sasha needs a sports psychologist with experience in treating elite athletes with problems like hers. On the third hand, it could just be a matter of Sasha needing to mature, but the problem with that is going through years of frustration and people thinking she's lazy, obsessed with winning, or a space cadet--and it may be too late by the time her cognitive and kinesthetic maturity catch up to her skating. Dick Button's comments that sometimes Sasha seems like she's on another planet are classic Dickisms and classic ways of thinking, ie, that consistency is just a matter of concentrating. But I don't think such comments help. It's like people who think ADD is just an indulgent term for daydreaming. Funny, unless your child has ADD.

I liken the attitudes towards what I think should be called neurokinesthetic problems in elite athletes to those many people had toward the increase in number of jump rotations, skate boots, and injuries. At first, there wasn't a problem, just skaters who had poor jump technique. *If they would just fix their jump technique they wouldn't have these injuries.* Then it was skaters who were *too greedy* about winning, practicing difficult 3/3 combos too much just to be sure they would win. Eventually, the one or two top skaters who experienced career-ending hip injuries turned into a trend. ESPN did a segment on it, including information on the hinged figure skating boot. There's also an article about inadequate boot technology and skating injuries on the GS website. In other words, even hip injuries went through a period of *blame the skater*--at least those skaters who a lot of fans tended to dislike.

But eventually, after enough skaters were hurt, people saw that the problem was complex and involved a number of factors. I'm hoping the same will happen with skaters whose only serious problem is consistency. In fact, Shizuka Arakawa was very inconsistent for years, so much so that she didn't even make the Japanese World team for several years. In Shizza's case, it took about six years of intense frustration, almost quitting the sport, being criticized, changing coaches several times, some influence from the COP (IMO) and, IMO, just getting older for her to realize her potential. (At least in dancers and other athletes I've worked with, including skaters, there's a big difference between the movement sophistication of an 18/19-year-old and a 22/23-year-old.) Maybe Sasha will have to go down that road too. But it is possible and at least to me it seems probable that Sasha has some kind of neurokinesthetic problem that needs to be addressed by a sports psychologist with experience treating elite athletes for this kind of thing.

If Sasha didn't have all the other makings of a great skater or if she were an average person, such a neurokiesthetic problem would never manifest itself. It's only when someone is working the body at an extremely high level of skill under high pressure that these problems arise for some. Just as Jenny Kirk needed an off-ice training regimen specifically designed by a sports medicine physician who specializes in elite athletes to help keep her hip healthy, I think Sasha too needs the help of a sports psychologist who specializes in the neurokinesthetic problems of elite athletes to help overcome her problems with consistency. Nicks, Tarasova, and Wagner have all tried through coaching techniques and at least I have no doubt that Sasha has tried with everything she has to overcome this problem. To use a medical analogy, Sasha has worked with some great general practitioners, now I think it's time to try a specialist.

As for "Swan Puddle," I agree it was sad to watch, but only because Wagner's strategy failed. IMO, there's no shame in that. The only shame would be if Sasha does not try at least one sports psychologist in her continuing efforts to overcome her problems with consistency (like coaches, you have to find one who is both an expert in the right field and with whom you click). The only shame besides that would be if people continue to stick with *If Sasha would just...* answers for her consistency problems. Anyone who has ever coached any kind of sport knows that people who just don't or won't concentrate or who are focused solely on winning rarely make it to the elite levels.

Finally, like Shepherd Clark and Scott Davis, both enormously gifted, hard working skaters, Sasha may not ever be able to fully overcome her consistency problems. But I don't think it will be for lack of trying on her part. Of course it's easy and tempting to Monday-morning quarterback these kinds of things--in some ways that's what these forums are about, lol. But Sasha is the World silver medalist because of her overall performance through all three phases of the competition. By all accounts she had a great skate in the Q round, she had what Dick Button called the best short program performance he had ever seen, and though she faltered in the free skate, she still came in third. She also comes home from Worlds knowing that simplifying her long programs is not the answer to her consistency problems. I'm actually somewhat heartened by this because it means that whether Sasha does an LP as difficult as "Swan Lake"-Lalique or as simple as "Swan Puddle"-Worlds, her consistency in the finals of a major event is still a problem. Thus I hope RW will have Sasha doing LPs just as difficult as "SL"-Lalique and look for answers to her consistency problems elsewhere.

BTW, somebody wondered if Tarasova might choreograph for Sasha. With TAT now the coach of one of Sasha's major rivals, I think that's a pretty firm "not bloody likely." Also, I really liked a lot of RW's choreography for Sarah. I didn't always like Sarah's performances, which was not because I didn't like Sarah's skating, but rather because I found Sarah to be somewhat uncoordinated in her dance abilities. I thought the choreography for Sarah's Olympic short and long programs as well as last year's short and long to be very interesting and effective. A lot of people hated and made much of last year's LP "breast self-exam pose" (actually pretty funny description:laugh:), but it didn't bother me and I liked the choreography quite a lot. I especially liked Sarah's SP last year, which had an angular, modern approach. I may be in the minority, but people have been saying they'd like to see Sasha do something more modern or jazzy.

On with the Worlds post mortem.;)
Rgirl
 
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jesslily

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 4, 2004
Sasha's new version of the long program has been changed alot.
The nice inbetweens were all gone. Just a few crossovers. The end of the program has two spins back to back, the combo she did too slow, the scratch spin does not fit there. I was disapoointed Robin Wagner did a program like this. If Sasha gets silver no matter what, I'd rather her get silver with her old version long.

Her new white dress looks like a practice dress. The skirt is too long, and the sleeve are too short.
 

tharrtell

TriGirl Rinkside
On the Ice
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
BravesSkateFan said:
And I don't know why Robin opted to put a Falling leaf in instead of a Russian split. Sasha has the most awesome Russian Splits, much better than her falling leaf. They should have used one of those instead.

I was wondering the same. Her right leg was bent. Why use that when she's got a beautiful Russian? Didn't she insert a split falling leaf into Sarah's program right before the Oly's? Not exactly sure of the timing, maybe it was there all along. Anyway, Sarah's hit a 180, but she wasn't parallel to the ice - one leg much higher than the other. What's Robin's thing with that leap?
 

tharrtell

TriGirl Rinkside
On the Ice
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Interesting post, as always, Rgirl. Do you think any of that applies to Ms. Kirk? I think it was Dick that said, she knows how to do the jumps, she just lacks the fight.

It will be interesting now that Sasha and Robin can start from scratch. Because they started working together so late in the season, they only had time to try to band aid the problem. With time away from competition, it'll be interesting to see what they come up with. I'm not always sold on Robin's choreography, but I did like Sarah's short program last year even though it was a little busy. I don't see Sasha doing something in that style, but I'd like to see her try something new - something jazzy/firey - I think that would suit her. Although, I think she naturally tends towards a balletic style, so I'm not so sure how it'll work.

Edited to add: I think I'm the only one that likes the new dress. I thought it was simple, elegant, and beautiful. I like simple, though.
 

fanforlady2001

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
That was the worst Long program from the top 5 skaters in the free program, I would of put Sasha 5th behind Julia, someone used the word "dreadful" it was. I love Sasha's skating but this did not show her strenths.
 

Doggygirl

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
RGirl...

I enjoy reading your thoughts on this subject as always. ITA that you are probably onto something here. The brain is certainly a little understood place.

In terms of the stripped down choreo, I personally don't question the strategy, and it worked from the perspective of a solid, winning QR, a stunning SP and three "on your feet" programs in a row at one competition. All of this resulted in Sasha's first world medal which is an awesome accomplishment. Especially since Sasha's program was being tweaked quite a bit all season not allowing Sasha to really settle into it, I think their decision to tone it down and just try to get it clean was good. These mid season coaching changes have got to be tough for the coaches and the skaters.

It will be interesting to see what next season brings once Sasha and Robin have a full off season to work together. Mean time RGirl, I hope Sasha also explores your advice!

DG
 
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Thanks for your comments, Doggygirl and Tharrtell--and for even reading that muthuh post, lol. Man, was I burned out from watching all that skating or what?:eek:

Anyway, Doggygirl, you're absolutely right that TAT changed "Swan Lake" for virtually every GP event last fall, though nowhere near as drastically as the changes RW made. TAT just added or changed things to get maximum value out of the COP. RW was trying to reinvent the wheel. So actually, what Sasha skated at Worlds wasn't just "Swan Lake Version 2"; it was more like "Swan Lake Version 6 with 50% new music."

The thing I question most about RW's changes is the music. Why mess with that? Sasha at least had a great sense of the music of TAT's version, which I thought was very well edited. Rather than change the very foundation of the program, why didn't RW just leave the music as it was and cut down some of the busyness in the choreography? It seems to me that either RW didn't want Sasha to confuse her new choreography with TAT's and so decided to change much of the music, or RW wanted to really put her stamp on the program, perhaps thinking that she could do a better job of editing the music. If the former is the case, then it was just a miscalculation. But if the latter is what happened, boo on RW if she let her ego get in the way. I'm not saying that's what happened; I don't know and I don't thaink anyone exceppt Robin knows.

In any case, changing so much of the music was the beginning of the end for Sasha/TAT's "Swan Lake." After the first year, it seemed clear to me that TAT was not the right coach overall for Sasha. However, one of TAT's greatest strengths as a coach as been her choreography, whether TAT does it, puts together bits and pieces supplied by her assistant(s), or both. I think it was a bad call on RW's part to change the basic structure of TAT's "Swan Lake." TAT'S foundation was great and I think it could have withstood watering down without sacrificing too much of the impact. As it was, WAG's "Swan Lake" was neither fish nor foul--nor swan.

After I watched SL-WAG on tape for a third time and compared it to both SL-WAG/Nats and SL-TAT/Lalique I thought, "Why didn't RW just use the Nats version with maybe a Russian split instead of the 3toe or whatever?" Sasha was on top of the Nats version and I think would have performed it well at Nats had she not had shingles--though of course we'll never know. Also, in the interview with Sasha and Robin (sorry, don't have the link), RW made it sound like she was just changing maybe 15 or 20 seconds of the music, not one or two minutes.

Anzwaz (in honor of Joe's reports from Germany--great job Joe:)), the more I looked at the Lalique, Nats, and Worlds versions of "Swan Lake," the less sense RW's decisions about changing the music and gutting SO much of the choreography made. I can't argue with the result since I think Shizuka's 3/3/2 and everything that followed could not have been beaten by anything Cohen was prepared to do. But RW's "Swan Puddle" does make me concerned for Sasha's choreography next season.

Of course it's one thing to try to edit and rechoreograph someone else's choreography, ie, concept, music, costuming, everthing and quite another to do your own choreography from scratch. I'll never forget wrecking one of my own pieces of choreography when I was young because I kept listening to everyone's well intentioned advice. Instead of helping the piece, the more I tried to *fix* it, the more it lost the essence of what made it good in the first place.

But just so it's clear, as I said, I understand RW's strategy and can't argue the overall results, ie, Sasha's great Q round and SP, and suffienient LP to win the silver. However, "Swan Puddle" sucked.

BTW, I didn't mind the split falling leaf. In the Q round, photos of Sasha show her with her back leg straight and her front leg above hip level--pretty spectacular, at least in the photos on Yahoo--so it seemed like it was better in the Q round. Also, the judges know Sasha has a jaw-drop Russian split, so I can understand if Robin was trying to show that Sasha can do other things as well. I sure wish I could see the Q round version of Sasha's LP, which reports say was performed very well, so I could compare it to the relatively crummy one she did in the finals. Also, whether you liked or hated the original black and white costume, at least it was more effective visually, especially in the scratch spin with the arms at opposing angles, than the new costume, which looked to me like a plain satin slip cut short with frou-frou and feathers over the hips. Personally, I liked the B/W costume. It had the pattern of feathers but know actually fowl on it.;)

Oh, Tharrtell, you asked about Jenny Kirk, ie, "Do you think any of that applies to Ms. Kirk? I think it was Dick that said, she knows how to do the jumps, she just lacks the fight." I assume you mean do I think a sports psychologist could help Jenny and/or do I think Jenny's problem is more than just "she lacks the fight." For one thing, yes, I do think the right sports psychologist would be helpful for Jenny. With Jenny, I've seen her really fight through several performances, so I think she has it in her, it's just that she's inconsistent with her ability to fight through. I can't help but think that the death of Jenny's mother and Jenny watching her mother go through the whole cancer ordeal and lose the battle has some sort of residual effect on her psyche. It would seem perfectly normal to me. Everybody grieves differently; I know since my father died in '87, there were times during the first three or four years after his death where I'd be going along as usual and then--BAM!--it would hit me out of nowhere.

In Jenny's case, she's also had the hip problem to deal with. Jenny looks much thinner this year, which MIGHT (emphasize might) be a result of stress and the way it affects the endocrine system (hormonal system). Balancing the grief over her mother, making sure she takes care of her hip, trying to break through in the senior ranks after being World junior champ, and, IMO, learning to get more flow and extension into her skating--all these could be areas a good sports psychologist could help Jenny with, teaching her ways to manage stress (and I don't mean that Jenny worries too much; she has streses affecting her that have nothing to do with cognitive thought processes). A sports psychologist could also help her with techniques to *push through* in tough competitions and, in conjunction with her coach, make the most out of her overall skating. Jenny' has a lot of great qualities and her personality really sparkles on the ice. But she tends to self-destruct sometimes. Callaghan isn't known for being a naturally warm coach, so perhaps a sports psychologists who knows and works with elite skaters. Perhaps Jenny sometimes doesn't fight through on the ice because she's fighting to keep all the balls in the air, so to speak, in her daily life--which I want to emphasize is just speculation on my part. Jenny didn't have a good Worlds, but she's a very genuine performer and I have great respect for her as a person and a skater. She's been through a lot at a young age.

Back to Sasha, I guess we'll have one more chance to see "Swan Puddle" if Sasha does it in the spring cheesefest. After that, I say get out the crossbow and put that signet out of its misery. Poor Sasha, even when she wins the silver, she still leaves Worlds with the *Inconsistency Albatross* around her neck. Good luck over the summer and next season Sasha and Robin. It's frustrating to see someone so gifted work so hard, make good improvements, win a World silver medal, and still keep running into brick walls at crucial times. I hope this is something that changes for Sasha. Her SP was so stunning, which makes it even more frustrating because you can see the way she's capable of skating.
Rgirl
YEESH! Another muthuh post. *I* need a sports psychologist to handle watching Worlds, lol.
 
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show 42

Arm Chair Skate Fan
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
And I don't know why Robin opted to put a Falling leaf in instead of a Russian split. Sasha has the most awesome Russian Splits, much better than her falling leaf. They should have used one of those instead.
........Probably because Robin has a thing for this jump (She added one into Sarah's program before SLC, and apparantly she thinks it's a deal maker....:p)

I guess I am the only one who didn't hate "Swan Puddle" (good one, RGirl :))....As she began skating, I totally forgot that it was different before.......but something must have worked, because she medaled this time..........and I liked her costume.....less fuss is better, it doesn't distract from the program..........42
 

clairecloutier

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 27, 2003
Interesting post, Rgirl. I think you're right that Sasha could use a sports psychologist to help overcome her consistency problems.

I also think that Sasha is just too focused on winning. At the end of last night's LP, her face told the whole story. She looked devastated--which was actually odd. Other skaters would have been a little rueful about missing that final salchow, yet still pleased at the fact that they'd done a 6-triple program and probably won a medal. Not Sasha. She looked absolutely miserable, and I can only assume it was because she knew she'd lost the gold. It was the same at Nationals. There was no sense of satisfaction about skating a nearly clean, 5- or 6-triple program, just devastation that she had lost the title.

Judging from her reactions at these events, I can only guess that Sasha is putting an *enormous* amount of pressure on herself to win these titles. It must be very difficult for her. I think if she could just try to enjoy the skating a little more and not worry so much about the outcome, she would do much better.

Of course, this is not made any easier by Dick, Peggy, and the rest of the media, who hype Sasha to the skies before each performance and then rip her to shreds each time she doesn't achieve perfection. For whatever reason, I don't think any other skater is subjected to the same kind of relentless scrutiny that they give Sasha.
 

Piel

On Edge
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Great posts (as usual) Rgirl. I am usually a big fan of of Dick's Peggy's comments but in this case IMO they left the impression Sasha's program had to be "dumbed down" for her. I just think they could have worded it a little better. Sometimes I don't think that it's necessary for the commentators to tells us EVERYTHING. I hope no one was offended by my reference to ADD. As you know my niece has that and it is very difficult to deal with.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
I seriously think if any of you posters on this thread did not see the Qualifying Round of Sasha's Swan Lake then yoyou missed an extremely great Sasha skate. It was super clean and she nailed everthingy in her own style. It was one gorgeous program. Later she did an impeccable Malaguena that had the audience on their feet. It was the LP where she lost the zip of the previous two.

What Robin and Sasha have to work out is why that happened and correct it in future.

Anyway, it made TT's day with Shizuka.

Joe
 
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Callystarr

Rinkside
Joined
Sep 26, 2003

I didn't so much as mind the music cuts, I actually liked them, however....the choregraphy and beauty of what the program had once been had gone out of the window.

 

Doggygirl

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
Eyria...

Of course I have no idea what was actually going through Sasha's head following her LP when her facial expression clearly registered dissapointment. I don't think it's necessarily fair to jump to the conclusion that the dissapointment all about "I didn't win." I am fairly sure that any elite skater knows as it's happening that they are delivering what they are capable of or not. So isn't it just as possible the Sasha's disspointment at that stage was about a performance she knew was sub-par for her rather than OMG I've not WON?

And on wanting to win....I have to assume every competitor in the game wants to win. I'm sure those that are not at a level to win World's know it, but want to move up the ranks or have those types of goals to work towards. Let's face it, you can't tell me that any of the ladies in the final flight, especially the top three didn't want to win because it was a possibility for all 3. So when you have the potential to win, and you give a sub-par performance for you, and you already know that a competitor skating before you laid down an excellent program, wouldn't dissapointment be natural?

DG
 

Bijoux

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 8, 2004
ITA with most, esp. DP

The dress was not that georgeous work of art. Her SP was one of the few few thrills of the ladies, but her LP was quite downgraded.

I did not see the qualifyings. Worlds has a QR? Was it on air? Where? Iunderstand this is where Michelle made a big mistake?

Anyone know where to find the QR results? Great thread ladies!
 

jesslily

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 4, 2004
The new version's music cut and choreography do not interpret "Swan Lake" very well. It sounds and looks like the longer version of her short program. Sasha's move in the long are too jerky. It should have flow and soft interpretation.

Switching around the jumps and simplifying the choreography did not help Sasha run a clean program. TT's version is a lot better. Even Sasha might miss one jump if she run that version, she can still gives audience a very very enjoyable 4 minutes.
 

sarahmistral

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 28, 2003
I too totally agree with most...

interesting points, the lot of you:D

She also comes home from Worlds knowing that simplifying her long programs is not the answer to her consistency problems.

I pray she does, Rgirl, because it is a pity if she comes away with a different, more negative lesson. I agree with Doggygirl on the following as well:

So when you have the potential to win, and you give a sub-par performance for you, and you already know that a competitor skating before you laid down an excellent program, wouldn't dissapointment be natural?

Absolutely true, Doggygirl; it is her skate that she wasn't able to give with the same all-out emotional intensity and fire of the first two, which must have upset her after proving that it was possible to stay at that emotional level for both a short and a long program.
I'm going to be succinct for a change (hell must be freezing over:p)...well I'll try anyway:) I think Robin is a great coach for Sasha, but she seriously needs another choreographer. I think Sasha starts out competitions with intensity, excitement, and joy, real joy of skating, but as far as the later round foibles, I think that, neurological problems aside, there is a huge psychological component to her troubles in the final round related to everyone's enormous expectations of her.

Seeing her talent, people don't seem as willing to let her develop into a more and more consistent skater like a less naturally gifted skater like Shizuka, who persevered and is only now reaping the ultimate benefit of that perseverance--they want to see that brilliance that Sasha so obviously has in spades (they being everyone from Dick and Peggy to internet posters to, of course, Sasha herself and her family and friends) NOW; sure, it may take another skater 6 years, but you've been around for three or four, and you're so exciting and talented and flexible and incredible and charismatic; GET IT TOGETHER. No patience. No tolerance. No understanding how difficult this sport is PERIOD, whether you're talented or not, and how much more difficult it must be when the world's just on your a## bit--ing you out every time you stumble, wondering what the hell is wrong with you, as if you'd deliberately waste the gold mine of talent God gave you, with incompetence as a competitor, nerves, Dick's famous "being on another planet", Peggy's focus etc.

On those last two, their impatience really bugs me; they're supposed to be calling mistakes and things well done, not getting on the same old topics. OT, it INFURIATED me how, as soon as Sokolova fell (skating after MK in the short), Terry Gannon (the one of the ABC bunch I truly cannot stand, EVER) quipped, almost relieved and VERY sarcastically, "oh well, that's another placement we won't have to worry about", or something to that effect, and then the bunch just started in on how bizarre MK's scoring was, TOTALLY ignoring the skater whose performance it was THEIR JOB to call--I was as disgusted as I've been with commentary since SLC.

Back to Sasha, I feel bad for her, and perhaps I too am guilty of wanting to see more of programs like her SP this year, but hey, who wouldn't. However, I don't go on the "she's always stumbling" bandwagon and taunt her. Most of this taunting may not reach her...even though internet taunts hopefully won't be read by her, Dick and Peggy's commentary is another story..

did you all get a load of how, after asking her about the Salchow, Lisa Guerrero didn't even close with a final congratulations but cut back to the booth, where they then went to interview Michelle and ask her about the SP for the fortieth time??? Really rude and mean, given Sasha's great efforts and silver medal this week--it seems to me that this anecdote proves my talent theory; to the commentators, anything short of gold is Sasha's fault because she can't concentrate or is on another planet--she should be gold medalist, OUR gold medalist; she screwed up again, let's ask her about that and then go talk to the wronged but always beloved MK--I have nothing against MK, enjoy her skating for the most part and her personality from what I've been able to see of it, not knowing her personally, though I think she shouldn't roll her eyes at the "silly" application of the rules when she did go over the time limit; makes her seem like she doesn't think such little rules should apply to her, but overall, I think she handled herself like a champion and a professional this week, with all the strange goings on and unfortunate but costly early errors in the qr.

Again, back to topic, I applaud Sasha for having a Worlds any other skater would love to have had (MK for one, this year:)). As with any immensely talented person, especially who's been sooooo anointed (and with her talent, it's natural, but no joyride for the person who gets such a tremendous weight of expectations placed squarely on her shoulders--it's as if she doesn't get to worry only about competing and fighting; everyone in the skating world is so taken aback, so impressed with Sasha's incredible natural gifts and ability that, no matter how focused she is on skating--which I believe she is--and no matter how much she loves to go out and skate and give emotionally--she said Malaguena SP at these Worlds was the skate she's given the most to emotionally ever, it's VERY HARD to deal with all the pressure of landing difficult jumps in the home stretch if it feels like everyone's watching and waiting for her legacy, her reign as the Greatest Ever (by virtue of all those natural gifts) to begin officially.

It's not just the home stretch to her winning a major competition, plain and simple; it's finally pleasing all those people watching all over the world who are just wondering, "when is she going to get it together; she is sooooo talented", epitomized by Dick and Peggy, who as Eyria put so well:

Of course, this is not made any easier by Dick, Peggy, and the rest of the media, who hype Sasha to the skies before each performance and then rip her to shreds each time she doesn't achieve perfection. For whatever reason, I don't think any other skater is subjected to the same kind of relentless scrutiny that they give Sasha.

Well said, Eyria; I think the reason, as I stated in several run-on sentences above:), is her incredible talent, and the fact that, as Phil Hersch, who from what I heard is a huge MK fan (but also a skating expert and appreciative of good performances across the board, I would think), put it, Sasha is the only real X factor out there in skating to have such an obvious natural edge as far as "the whole package" is concerned.

I think she had a wonderful Worlds; making the jump from 4th to 2nd is a great achievement even for Sasha, given not just her past but everyone's expectations of her talent, and she really fought to the end, had a bobble (which almost every other top skater did as well), but for her, most unfortunately, it's always the *Inconsistency Albatross* that will loom ominously over her head, partly because so many people want to see her at her peak ALL THE TIME because they view her talent as so superior that they think that equals "the most dominant skater ever". It is worth remembering that the only other person who skated more cleanly than Sasha through all three phases of the competition was the champion, and that's how it should be, IMO.

Staffwise, she definitely needs a sports psychologist and a choreographer;), and to put all that rambling in a more succinct form, I think that the burden of expectation of the entire skating world because of her immense talent and ability are as much a factor as any neurological or other problems she may have concentrating. Her past remains an issue because people like Dick and Peggy and so many others are always bringing it up; it's like they just want another solid gold medalist, to have bragging rights over someone with such potential to dominate and world-beat.

I should get a .5 deduction for going over the message length limit, if there were one:laugh:

Sarah
 

glow_girl85

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 25, 2004
sarahmistral
lol about your final comment...excellent post! u hit the nail right on the head, u took the words right out of my mouth. i have felt that way for a while but i didn't quite know how to put it into the right words like u did. everyone seems to put so much pressure on Sasha and have such high expectations of her, yet, at the same time, they wonder why she's not consistent...hmmm, what could her problem be? i wonder....:confused: lol
 

shine

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
This thread has me PML. It's not as if the program were at all complex to start with.
 

bronxgirl

Medalist
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
But isn't the ability to handle pressure and expectations one of the marks of a champion? (At least according to the so-called experts.) Personally, I think Sasha should ignore any one else's expectations but her own - as long as she truly feels she has done her best, then it shouldn't matter what any commentator says. I know that it's way easier said than done.
This is a sport everyone on this board enjoys, but it's not brain surgery. If Sasha never wins another medal, so what? Nobody died!! She has brought much enjoyment to millions of her fans (as have every other skater out there in the competition) and they should all have a tremendous feeling of accomplishment and joy from this. If they can't feel that, they will never be able to handle real pressure (JMHO)
 

show 42

Arm Chair Skate Fan
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
did you all get a load of how, after asking her about the Salchow, Lisa Guerrero didn't even close with a final congratulations but cut back to the booth

........I picked up on that too and thought how abrupt was that. They didn't even bother to say congrats for her silver medal. This was quite an accomplishment for her and should have been treated as such.............42
 
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