2014 Worlds: Who is the Dark Horse for the Men's podium? | Page 3 | Golden Skate

2014 Worlds: Who is the Dark Horse for the Men's podium?

Li'Kitsu

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
I wouldn't like it at all. Hanyu needs a worthy challenger and I don't see Han or Brown being that skater. Hopefully Ten will stay and be a worthy competitor. Kovtun has potential too.

I'd take Han over Ten. Han has better basic skating, his 4T and 3A have better quality. You can argue with his programs and his not-up-to-snuff interpretation abilities (for now), but I don't find Ten to be all that better in those regards. He's a fine skater, but his programs are empty and he tends to look very focused on the technical part of his performances. If Han manages to get it together and get more consistent, I think he'll leave Ten behind him in the coming years.
Don't know about Kovtun. He has difficult jumps and seems very determined to improve in every other aspect of his skating, but I can't see him challenging Hanyu. His jumping technique looks like it will hold him back, IMO. That doesn't mean you have to like me idea of the perfect next quad though ;)

pangtongfan said:
Dont be surprised to see much lower than expected scores for Stolbova & Klimov (though they still might win if V&T arent there, S&S bomb, and nobody else skates that well), Lipnitskaya, Kovtun, and almost all the Russians skaters minus I&K who I suspect even the ISU want to see as the team to beat this quad.

I really hope this doesn't happen. Even moreso for I/K, I know they're great skaters, but P/B should have a fair rematch. It would be so amazing to see them win a world title bofre they retire.
The main fous of the whole scandal was so much on the ladies event, I felt the other disciplines are being overlooked. So while I agree Lipnitskaya might get some back lash, I'd say Kovtun should be relatively save (and probably, if they'd compete, V/T would still get sky-high marks even for things they don't deserve too).
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
And if Jason never gets the quad I have no doubt you'll continue to support him, but your interest in competitive skating will move along to a skater who has the goods to compete.

I'm honestly mystified as to why a posting exchange about what a skater can do to improve his competitive chances would be so offensive? You and I both like Max and are pulling for him at Worlds, maybe you can explain it to me?

Huh??? :confused2: I never said that anything in this thread was offensive. I am honestly mystified as to the basis for your comment to me.
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Personal best scores

Hanyu: 293.25
Fernandez: 267.11
Machida: 265.38
Yan: 246.20
Kovtun: 240.34
Liebers: 238.87
Aaron: 238.36
Abbott: 237.41
Brezina: 236.98
Majorov: 224.86
Reynolds: 222.23
Hendrickx: 214.24
Amodio: 213.39

Per the posts from Mrs. P :bow: in the other thread, these scores are SEASON's bests, not PBs.

And her post from Mar 4 has an addition:
Kozuka: 236.38 (from 2014 4CC)​
http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...-are-not-going&p=880441&viewfull=1#post880441

http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/sb2013-14/sbtsmto.htm
 

noskates

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
That's very high minded and nothing wrong with that. But it's not just "people being snobs" about his "alleged 'lack of artistry'". It's judges.

Clearly the component scores they give him are at odds with your opinion. They're not seeing his "distinctive funky style."

I'd be very happy to enjoy his style, too...in his show skating. But we're not talking about show skating. We're talking about competitive skating and what a skater needs to do to succeed in competitive skating.

I had no idea that Max had been working with Lori Nichol but it seems pretty obvious that this is something he's trying to address. If that p*sses you off, don't tell me I'll need earplugs, yell at him. Seems pretty misdirected to take out your frustrations on posters on a message board who weren't even attacking him, but rather talking about a part of his skating that he himself thinks its important to improve.

Thank you! Well stated. I don't know how many years Max has been skating but it's sad that someone hasn't addressed his "lack of artistry" sooner. He definitely has the jumps but in this day and age that just isn't enough. I don't enjoy his style of skating. But I certainly don't wish him ill will. I generally agree with you Karne in many of your posts but to suggest that developing more artistry is going to create a bunch of "cookie cutter" artists is kind of non-sensical. There is a judging system - like it or not. It rewards specifics in skating. Max is not getting rewarded for a large piece of that pie because he doesn't perform in a manner the judges are rewarding!!! I about fell out of my chair when I heard he was skating to Carmen this year! In what universe did that make sense? That's like expecting Elvis Stojko (who he reminds me of) to skate to Swan Lake! It just doesn't synch. Why not find a piece of music where his style would be supported rather than displaying his weaknesses? But you can't fault Max for this entirely. I do hope that his coach and team (whomever they may be...Lori Nichol?) put some real thought into choosing his music and choreographing his programs for next year.

And yes, he is a class act! It must have been hard to sit back stage and watch your 2014 Olympic dream go down the drain. Hopefully it has made him stronger and more determined.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Based on the data below:

Favorites for podium: Hanyu, Fernandez, Machida,
Dark horses: Yan, Kovtun, Kozuka, Reynolds, Aaron
Dark dark horses: Liebers, Abbott, Verner, Brezina, Amodio

Personal best
Hanyu: 293.27
Fernandez: 274.87
Machida: 265.38
Kozuka: 258.41
Reynolds: 250.55
Amodio: 250.39
-----
Yan: 246.20
Brezina: 243.52
Kovtun 240.34
Liebers 239.87
Aaron: 238.36
Abbott: 238.32
Verner: 232.99


Season best scores
Hanyu: 293.25
Fernandez: 267.11
Machida: 265.38
Yan: 246.20
Kovtun: 240.34
Liebers: 238.87
------
Aaron: 238.36
Abbott: 237.41
Kozuka: 236.38
Brezina: 236.98
Majorov: 224.86
Reynolds: 222.23
Hendrickx: 214.24
Amodio: 213.39


Season worst (GP/Euros/4CC/Olympics)
Machida: 236.03
Hanyu: 234.80
Kovtun: 232.37
Fernandez: 226.99
Kozuka: 226.92
Verner: 223.66
------
Aaron: 223.35
Reynods: 222.23
Abbott: 215.95
Yan: 214.23
Brezina: 206.22
Liebers: 197.65
Amodio: 190.13

Personal best scores combined (PB from SP/FS)
Hanyu: 294.86
Fernandez: 277.63
Kozuka: 267.18
Machida: 265.38
Reynolds: 257.37
Kovtun: 256.85
-----
Amodio: 252.89
Brezina: 251.35
Yan: 250.68
Abbott: 247.10
Aaron: 240.65
Liebers: 239.87
Verner 239.72

Season's best scores combined
Hanyu: 294.86
Fernandez: 267.11
Machida: 265.38
Kovtun: 256.85
Yan: 250.68
Kozuka: 241.15
-----
Liebers: 239.87
Abbott: 238.90
Aaron: 238.66
Brezina: 236.98
Verner: 235.41
Reynolds: 238.66
Amodio: 215.24

Season worst combined
Hanyu: 234.90
Machida: 231.51
Fernandez: 226.99
Aaron: 223.05
Reynolds: 222.23
Kozuka: 222.15
-----
Verner: 221.24
Kovtun: 216.73
Yan: 207.64
Abbott: 207.02
Brezina: 206.02
Amodio: 191.13
Liebers: 196.84
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Based on the data below:

Favorites for podium: Hanyu, Fernandez, Machida,
Dark horses: Yan, Kovtun, Kozuka, Reynolds, Aaron
Dark dark horses: Liebers, Abbott, Verner, Brezina, Amodio ...

Thanks, Mrs. P -- appreciate all the supporting data.

I about fell out of my chair when I heard he was skating to Carmen this year! In what universe did that make sense? ...

And yes, he is a class act! It must have been hard to sit back stage and watch your 2014 Olympic dream go down the drain. Hopefully it has made him stronger and more determined.

Carmen made sense for Max in a universe in which a skater must love to perform to her/his chosen music and must enjoy hearing it hundreds and hundreds of times over the course of a season. And in a universe in which Max rejected complacency and wanted to push himself beyond his comfort zone.

Happy to repeat again what I have said umpteen times over the past eight or nine months:
In his TSL interview this summer, Kirk and Lease teased Max quite forcefully about picking Carmen. With a smile on his face, Max acknowledged Carmen's overuse and calmly explained why he chose it anyway. Some of his comments [I'm just paraphrasing]:
- Carmen is a crowd-pleaser. To this day, Max finds himself clapping along when he hears the music.
- He has wanted to skate to Carmen since he was nine years old.

Nine years old, btw, also is the age at which Max started figure skating. By age eleven, he was competing at juvenile regionals. Meanwhile, he also was an elite hockey player until he broke his back in 2008.
His hockey success was very gratifying for Max, and I highly doubt that he regrets any of the time and effort that he devoted to the sport.

I feel sure that his mental strength and determination have only grown since Boston Nats. :)
 

noskates

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
Golden, I know you're a big Max fan. I still don't find his skating style pleasing and I still think Carmen was a bad choice for him....whether he liked the music and wanted to skate to it all his life or not. I don't think it did him any favors. And I don't believe I, or anybody else, felt he had regrets about playing hockey. I was only saying that he figure skates like a hockey player. That's what I see!

Good luck to Max at Worlds!
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Golden, I know you're a big Max fan. I still don't find his skating style pleasing and I still think Carmen was a bad choice for him....whether he liked the music and wanted to skate to it all his life or not. I don't think it did him any favors. And I don't believe I, or anybody else, felt he had regrets about playing hockey. I was only saying that he figure skates like a hockey player. That's what I see!

Good luck to Max at Worlds!

And no matter how many times and in how many threads you repeat your negativity re Max's skating, my feelings will remain positive. :yes:

I join you in wishing Max good luck. :)
 

Ryan O

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 5, 2004
Country
Canada
With all the withdrawals of the big names, does Abbott even need to go for a quad in either program to have a top 5?

You never know how your competitors will skate. And although Chan, Ten and Takahashi won't be there, many of the other guys who finished ahead of Jeremy at the Olympics will still be going. And doesn't Jeremy want to get on the podium rather than just being in the top 5? If he's going for a final Worlds, is it to finally win a medal, or is it just to achieve a final good skate?
 

Becki

Medalist
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
You never know how your competitors will skate. And although Chan, Ten and Takahashi won't be there, many of the other guys who finished ahead of Jeremy at the Olympics will still be going. And doesn't Jeremy want to get on the podium rather than just being in the top 5? If he's going for a final Worlds, is it to finally win a medal, or is it just to achieve a final good skate?

If Jeremy skates the way he did at Nationals, I guarantee he will be on the podium. If everyone skates clean, he still has a shot at the podium. Point being, he's podium worthy if he can reproduce two solid performances (with quads).

I would say the dark horses are Kozuka and Reynolds. I think Reynolds, if he executes all his jumps, will probably land on the podium given his popularity in Japan and past success skating in Japan (i.e. 2013 4CC, his PCs were pretty good at 80).
 

phaeljones

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 18, 2012
If Jeremy skates the way he did at Nationals, I guarantee he will be on the podium. If everyone skates clean, he still has a shot at the podium. Point being, he's podium worthy if he can reproduce two solid performances (with quads).

I would say the dark horses are Kozuka and Reynolds. I think Reynolds, if he executes all his jumps, will probably land on the podium given his popularity in Japan and past success skating in Japan (i.e. 2013 4CC, his PCs were pretty good at 80).

Reynolds can do it if he can get his temperament in check, like he did at 4CC last year. Sure as shooting, he CAN (but might not) nail his long. The team event at the Olympics showed that. And he has a great short that, I think, could bring the house down if he nails it (but which he has just been so far off on so far . . . only twice by the way). If it was not for his missing the whole first part of the season, I would feel better for him. This is another skater (like Abbott except that Kevin does not put his foot in his mouth) that we will have a good sense of their final placing after the short (either it will be a triumph to be sealed with the fs or a disaster from which no recovery is possible). Basically, the die will be cast for him (and Skate Canada men's for next year) by AC/DC.

It would be so nice to see Kevin do well.
 

chairmanmao

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 10, 2013
While I dont hope for it, I also have a sense the entire Russian skating team will face some backlash for the controversial and heavily rumored fixing of the figure skating competition in Sochi in favor of the Russian skaters. That doesnt just apply to the ladies event btw, but as that was the final impression and it was the worst and biggest scandal of all, it will be the biggest impression of all and probably even exagerrate memories of the scoring of Russians in the other disciplines and affect the negative vibe towards Russian skaters for awhile. How long it will last I am unsure, but could well be another couple years, and probably at the next Olympics too; at the absolute least likely at the post Olympic Worlds. Dont be surprised to see much lower than expected scores for Stolbova & Klimov (though they still might win if V&T arent there, S&S bomb, and nobody else skates that well), Lipnitskaya, Kovtun, and almost all the Russians skaters minus I&K who I suspect even the ISU want to see as the team to beat this quad.

For someone like Kovtun who is not a favorite of anyone- ISU, Russian fed (as their sending Plushenko to the Games proves), and is an inconsistent skater who doesnt have huge scoring potential even when he skates well either, any negative anti Russian vibe would see him really sink unless he skates lights out.

I was really hoping you'd retire with Yuna. Weeks later I come back and your still spouting the same BS.
 

deedee1

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 14, 2007
My true wish was both Brian and Daisuke to have two great skates and get on the world podium with BIG smiles, together and one last time before they close their wonderful competitive career, though I now know it won't happen... :cry:

Here goes MY picks :) :
-Takahiko winning the worlds title. finally. in front of his home fans! :yes:
I have been waiting and waiting the last TH-R-EEEE seasons for Taka to become the second Japanese World Champ after Dai. If you ever watch him skate LIVE, you can't deny that his blade touches to the ice are simply out of this world.

-Tomas and Jeremy on the world podium. finally!! :rock:
Such fabulous skaters they truly are, and just like Patrick and Dai, these two are the closest as most complete skaters, so to speak, currently competing, I believe. Thus should be a shame really, if they never get on the world podium during their competitive career which is soon coming to its end (sadly;;;; ). Hope they somehow can deal with their nerves this time, have two great skates and close their competitive career on high note.

-As for the likes of Yuzuru, Javi, Max, Kevin or Jason, there are some areas/rooms to be desired to improve, before being called as the complete skaters and/or becoming the worthy/deserving world champ, just yet. I don't want them to be criticized by some of skating fans, either. ;) Besides, they are very young they can wait a year, until the next Olympic cycle begins next season.
 

Panini

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 5, 2013
Why dont you retire yourself. Nobody would miss you, just like nobody will miss your beloved Sotnikova if she never skates again. Anyway who dares to call the godly Michelle Moochelle Kwan should be immediately banned for sheer ignorance and stupidity to begin with. PS- Why would Yu Na retiring have anything to do with me, a skater I am not even a fan of to begin with. :laugh: You are literally dumber than the ladies judges in Sochi.

My name isn't nobody... :slink:
 

swc0931

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Denis Ten...He is real winner of 2013 world championship..(I love Chan, but it was not gold medal performance).
He also won the Olympic bronze medal throughout the injuries
He has a good skating skill, but compare to Chan and Hanyu, his PCS is very low....
Also Yan Han (low PCS) and Fernandez Javier, they both have a chance to shoot podium
 
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