Analyzing Sotnikova and Kim's footwork in the FS | Page 14 | Golden Skate

Analyzing Sotnikova and Kim's footwork in the FS

Status
Not open for further replies.

usethis2

Medalist
Joined
Feb 11, 2014
Unbelievable work, BoP. I have the utmost respect. (though I confess my knowledge isn't up there to fully understand your work) It is so wonderful to be around smart people.
 

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2013
Country
United-States
I'm not sure what's so hard to understand. From what I've read here all Yuna did was crossovers while wiping her face. Oh and not enough triples. Anything else is a hate thread.

I'm a big Yuna fan but I about spat my drink out laughing so hard at the wings comment. Sorry but playful humor is quite funny. BoP is pretty good at it too. I've never accused anyone here of bashing Adelina or Yuna. I'm so far over this "scandal" angle and don't care at all about that. I'm just interested in the steps being discussed here. My point is wouldn't crossovers be a bit ridiculous in the StSeq? Ill go back to :popcorn: for a while at least.
 

jenm

The Last One Degree
Medalist
Joined
Jan 28, 2014
I love the OP. :) Thanks to BoP for the analysis :)
Can anyone do the same with Yuna, Carolina and Mao's step sequence? Anyone? I'm not expert enough to do so.
Also, will people please stop posting unnecessary things that just makes this thread too long? To be honest, a lot of posters here aren't really helping the point of this thread. This is an analysis thread, not a hate thread. I can't help but comment because the helpful analyses are being drowned in the sea of troll posts.
 

chloepoco

Medalist
Joined
Nov 1, 2009
You're ignoring all the professionals who weren't on the judging panel and panned Adelina's choreography/skating skills. She is a laughing stock among people who know about skating. It is not a controversy because everyone is a hardcore Yuna Kim fan. It is a controversy because Adelina is just not that good.

With this, I wish the moderators would close this thread already. It's gone on too long.
 

jenm

The Last One Degree
Medalist
Joined
Jan 28, 2014
As requested, I have written down all of the movements in Yu-Na Kim's LP footwork sequence:

1.) Toe step, counterclockwise
2.) Back edge pull with free foot toepick push, clockwise
2.) Mohawk, clockwise
3.) Waltz hop, clockwise
4.) Cross step, clockwise
5.) Change of edge from inside to outside with free foot in quick ina position, counterclockwise
6.) Change edge from outside to inside with free foot placed on ice
7.) Rocker, clockwise
8.) Bracket, clockwise
9.) Rocker, clockwise
10.) Cross Roll, counterclockwise
11.) Rocker, counterclockwise
12). Change edge from outside to inside
13.) Loop, counterclockwise
14.) Full turn on ice while changing feet, counterclockwise
15.) Toe steps, clockwise
16.) Rocker, clockwise
17.) Cross step, counterclockwise
18.) Choctaw executed with a hop, clockwise
19.) Twizzle, clockwise
20.) Chasse, clockwise
21.) Choctaw, counterclockwise
22.) Top hop, counterclockwise
23.) Twizzle, counterclockwise (x2)
24.) Rocker, counterclockwise
25.) Edge change from inside to outside
26.) Three turn, counterclockwise
27.) Brief back inside two foot glide with back free foot mini-kick
28.) Choctaw, clockwise
29.) Three turn, clockwise
30.) Loop, clockwise
31.) Toe hop, clockwise
32.) Chasse, counterclockwise
33.) Curve with change of edge, clockwise
34.) Bracket, counterclockwise
35.) Cross step, clockwise
36.) Cross step, counterclockwise
37.) Half turn and edge change from inside to outside with free foot push, clockwise
38.) Toe step, clockwise
39.) Counter, counterclockwise
40.) Twizzle, countererclockwise (x2)
41.) Three turn, counterclockwise
41.) Rocker, counterclockwise
42.) Half turn and edge change from inside to outside with free foot placed on ice, counterclockwise
43.) Mohawk, counterclockwise
44.) Illusion turn, counterclockwise
45.) Chasse, counterclockwise
46.) Toe step, clockwise
47.) Cross step, counterclockwise
48.) Chasse, counterclockwise
49.) Toe step, counterclockwise

She has 5 types of turns in both directions - Rocker, Bracket, Twizzle, Loop, Three
She had 5 types of steps in both directions - Toe hop, Toe step, Chasse, Mohawk, Choctaw
She has full body rotation covering at least 1/3 of the pattern in total for each rotational direction.
She most definitely has upper body movements for at least 1/3 of the pattern.
She has 3 different combinations of three difficult turns executed with a clear rhythm.

This footwork sequence is clearly Level 4.

Thank you! :clap:
 

Vanshilar

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 24, 2014
With this, I wish the moderators would close this thread already. It's gone on too long.

No. The right moderation when trolls try to hijack a thread isn't to close the thread. It's to ban the trolls. Otherwise you're just giving trolls a "heckler's veto" to stop what is otherwise an informative thread, and encouraging them to repeat their behavior to derail other threads they don't like or they disagree with.
 

ectomorph

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 14, 2014
Question:
So with simultaneous inflation of AS's step sequence from level 3 to 4 and deflation of YK's from level 4 to 3, the bias results in a net difference of 1.2 points in BV (not counting GOE)?
AS gains 0.6 over her actual program; YK loses 0.6?
(Not sure how the points are counted)
 

steyn

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
I have no proper knowledge to fully appreciate BoP's wonderful work. But, comparing the two step sequences, the first thing I could notice is that the number of movements are quite different: 32(=29+3) movements for Sotnikova and 51(=49+2) movements for Kim. Is this normal? What is a typical number of movements? If thirty something is enough to get level 4, what is the motivation to do extra almost twenty movements? Is this just for better choreography?
 

BlackPack

Medalist
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
I don't know if this has been posted already.

This is a side-by-side top view of Yuna's and Adelina's LPs. It seemed to me that Adelina skated faster than Yuna. And before anyone claims that Yuna's choreography and transitions are more difficult and intricate - not really. Yuna's Tango isn't at the level of Danse Macabre.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwFuocB9GHE
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
My impression of this video was the opposite. I thought Yuna Kim had superior speed and ice coverage (which is really about all that can be seen from the video).
 

Alba

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
There is a difference between fs pr reps saying "it was totally fair!" so as not to discredit the sport that they profit from, and anyone actually endorsing Sotnikova's skating.

Great. So they've been lying all those years when crying about S&P, B&K etc., etc., :rolleye:
Thank you for confirming the obvious. :biggrin:
 

ahy

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
I don't know if this has been posted already.

This is a side-by-side top view of Yuna's and Adelina's LPs. It seemed to me that Adelina skated faster than Yuna. And before anyone claims that Yuna's choreography and transitions are more difficult and intricate - not really. Yuna's Tango isn't at the level of Danse Macabre.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwFuocB9GHE

I thought Yuna skated faster and also with better ice coverage. And i still don't get why Adelina got a level 4 on her stsq while Yuna only got a level 3? please watch again, during the step sequence, Yuna didn't do much crossovers - - Adelina should've gotten an edge call on her flutz as well, I didn't mean to offence Adelina but Yuna should've gotten 1st place...
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
Question:
So with simultaneous inflation of AS's step sequence from level 3 to 4 and deflation of YK's from level 4 to 3, the bias results in a net difference of 1.2 points in BV (not counting GOE)?
AS gains 0.6 over her actual program; YK loses 0.6?
(Not sure how the points are counted)

Net difference of 1.2 points in BV and 0.95 points in GOE, so 2.15 points total.

And that's if we assume Sotnikova deserved those GOE grades. She had shakier edges, less flow in the movement, inferior upper body movement, and significantly less movement directly to the music...and yet was graded higher in GOE than Yu-Na for the footwork.
 

JayW

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 8, 2013
As requested, I have written down all of the movements in Yu-Na Kim's LP footwork sequence:

1.) Toe step, counterclockwise
2.) Back edge pull with free foot toepick push, clockwise
2.) Mohawk, clockwise
3.) Waltz hop, clockwise
4.) Cross step, clockwise
5.) Change of edge from inside to outside with free foot in quick ina position, counterclockwise
6.) Change edge from outside to inside with free foot placed on ice
7.) Rocker, clockwise
8.) Bracket, clockwise
9.) Rocker, clockwise
10.) Cross Roll, counterclockwise
11.) Rocker, counterclockwise
12). Change edge from outside to inside
13.) Loop, counterclockwise
14.) Full turn on ice while changing feet, counterclockwise
15.) Toe steps, clockwise
16.) Rocker, clockwise
17.) Cross step, counterclockwise
18.) Choctaw executed with a hop, clockwise
19.) Twizzle, clockwise
20.) Chasse, clockwise
21.) Choctaw, counterclockwise
22.) Top hop, counterclockwise
23.) Twizzle, counterclockwise (x2)
24.) Rocker, counterclockwise
25.) Edge change from inside to outside
26.) Three turn, counterclockwise
27.) Brief back inside two foot glide with back free foot mini-kick
28.) Choctaw, clockwise
29.) Three turn, clockwise
30.) Loop, clockwise
31.) Toe hop, clockwise
32.) Chasse, counterclockwise
33.) Curve with change of edge, clockwise
34.) Bracket, counterclockwise
35.) Cross step, clockwise
36.) Cross step, counterclockwise
37.) Half turn and edge change from inside to outside with free foot push, clockwise
38.) Toe step, clockwise
39.) Counter, counterclockwise
40.) Twizzle, counterclockwise (x2)
41.) Three turn, counterclockwise
41.) Rocker, counterclockwise
42.) Half turn and edge change from inside to outside with free foot placed on ice, counterclockwise
43.) Mohawk, counterclockwise
44.) Illusion turn, counterclockwise
45.) Chasse, counterclockwise
46.) Toe step, clockwise
47.) Cross step, counterclockwise
48.) Chasse, counterclockwise
49.) Toe step, counterclockwise

She has 5 types of turns in both directions - Rocker, Bracket, Twizzle, Loop, Three
She had 5 types of steps in both directions - Toe hop, Toe step, Chasse, Mohawk, Choctaw
She has full body rotation covering at least 1/3 of the pattern in total for each rotational direction.
She most definitely has upper body movements for at least 1/3 of the pattern.
She has 3 different combinations of three difficult turns executed with a clear rhythm.

This footwork sequence is clearly Level 4.

Bravo Bravo!

I wish everyone can talk like you, and stop labelling people as xx haters.
 

OS

Sedated by Modonium
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Net difference of 1.2 points in BV and 0.95 points in GOE, so 2.15 points total.

And that's if we assume Sotnikova deserved those GOE grades. She had shakier edges, less flow in the movement, inferior upper body movement, and significantly less movement directly to the music...and yet was graded higher in GOE than Yu-Na for the footwork.

Thanks very much BoP for your analysis.

Just to work out for myself, GOEs are factored differently according to step sequence base levels right? i.e/

+3 is worth 2.1 GOE (30% reduced) for base level 4 step sequences,
+3 is worth only 1.5 GOE (50% reduced) for base level 3 steps sequences

In other words, step levels directly affect BOTH the base value AND the GOE factoring value.
A step sequence level 4 GOE at +2 (worth 1.4 GOE), is worth only 0.1 away from a step sequence done level 3 GOE done superbly at + 3 (worth 1.5 in GOE).

Sotnikova got 1x +1, 4x +2s, 4x +3s. Taking off upper and low score give her an average +2.429 with level 4 factoring (GOE reduced at 30%) = 1.7
Kim got 6x +2s, 3x +3s. Taking off upper and lower score off give her an average of +2.286 with reduced to level 3 factoring (GOE at reduced 50%) = 1.14

-----------

If Sotnikova got level 3, Kim got level 4, and assuming the same GOE still apply then the score will work out

KIM stsq BV 3.9, GOE 1.6, Total 5.5 ( +1.06)
Sotnikova stsq BV 3.3, GOE 1.21 Total 4.51 (-1.29)

The score difference works out 2.35 (did I calculate wrong somewhere?).

It is interesting, Sotnikova got a +1 as one of her GOEs.
FYI, this is what she got early in the season at Cup of China, stsq level 2, (7x +1, 3x +2), 2.6 BV, 0.57 GOE, TES 3.17
http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpchn2013/gpchn2013_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOjo6qWabKM
Alla SHEKHOVTSEVA also judged there as she did with every single one of her competitions this season. (Cup of China, TEB, GPF, Euro, Olympics)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top