American Idol March 30/31 | Page 2 | Golden Skate

American Idol March 30/31

mike79

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Results like tonight shouldn't be surprising. Just look at Vanessa from last year, or Tamyra from AI1. Both got kicked off way before they should have been.

This show has never been strictly about talent. It's all about who has the ability to connect with a certain fan base who will vote for you no matter what (JPL, John Stevens). Teenage girls vote for these two like there's no tomorrow, much like Clay last year (but at least Clay was very talented).

A big problem this season is that Latoya, Fantasia, and Jennifer are all 'the divas' this year. This splits the fans votes and allows others to slip through the cracks. JPL, Camille, and John have nowhere near the talent of those three girls, but they make it through because they have solid fan bases. Fantasia seems to be the one out of those girls who really stands out and can connect with people, thus receiving more votes than either Jennifer or Latoya.

I see this competition coming down between those who really connect with the audience: George, Jasmine, JPL, and Fantasia. John Stevens will probably do well with Big Band next week but don't be surprised to see him in the bottom three as the result of backlash from this week. A good example of something like this happening is last year when Rickey Smith had a bad week with Disco but wasn't in the bottom three. The next week he came out and blew the roof off with a fantastic rendition of Lionel Ritchie's Endless Love (one of my favorite performances in AI history, and he had the guts to do it when Lionel Ritchie was the guest judge), but was booted off the following night.

Toni, you're right. These people don't connect with the fans as well as last year's contestants did. Clay and Ruben would own this competiton.
 

show 42

Arm Chair Skate Fan
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Just finished watching.........to John Steven's credit, he looked shocked when LaToya was picked over himself.....kudos to him, he knew he hadn't measured up........very sad, I really liked Amy...42
 

Kasey

Medalist
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Mike79....while I get your point, I can't handle grouping LaToya with Jennifer and Fantasia. LaToya has class. The other two, I have seen very little evidence of that. I think what truly "splits the vote" is that they are all African-American women with strong voices.

I think the majority of voters are female, which explains why always, there are men with lesser talent who go further in the competition (such as Justin and RJ in year one, and already John S and JPL this year).

I think they need to come up with a technology that only allows one vote per phone number. That would maybe shake things up a bit, and get rid of the 'redial winners' (which has to explain the longevity of Nikki and Carmen in the competitions).

A skating comparison on Diana....she reminds me of watching a younger Tim Goebel skate. Quad quad quad, triple triple triple, and no substance or emotion. (Tim lovers, don't jump on me, he HAS improved!) She has the voice, she has the ability, but absolutely no emotional connection with what she's singing, or who she's singing to. SIGH.

Amy should not have been the one to go home today. And with them putting LaToya in the bottom three, either America has no ears and taste, or there are times when they maybe put the bottom TWO in there, and just pick someone else at random, to shake things up.

Kasey
 

swannanoa54

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
The B3 last night should have been John S, Camile, and Jen H. My reasons: John S was horrible, off pitch, too soft and too stiff. No personality whatsoever. Camile was off pitch as well and that hand jive thing really takes away from her performance. Jen H-can't stand her singing. She overpowers every song, she was pitchy and she has absolutely no connectivity with the audience. Haven't seen any seen the beginning.

One thing I noticed during the car video was that Jen H never plays well with the others. While she may have an excellent gospel voice, she is not my idea of an American Idol.

I thought Amy should have stayed. Even though the last 4 notes she hit on her song were awful, her entire song was upbeat and she related well with the audience. Oh well!

Now Big Band is coming up and I'm sure John S will get to stay another week. Boy, he was given a gift last night.
 

mike79

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
I don't know why people come to the conclusion that the show has to be rigged somehow if one of the better singers is in the bottom 3. Why not just realize that maybe a lot of people just didn't vote for Latoya this week?

Ryan Seacrest says it almost every week: Don't just assume that your favorite is safe. Anyone remember Josh singing 'Celebration' horribly yet not going to the bottom 3? That week Ruben went to the bottom 3 after singing much better than Josh. Most people just assumed Ruben was safe, allowing Josh fans, who probably realized Josh was in trouble, to vote Josh through for another week. Guess what happened the following week? Ruben was safe and Josh was voted out.
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
Speaking of early rounds, I'm curious about something. You've had the John Stevens wallpaper as part of your posts since he first made the final 12, IIRC. At that point, we'd only heard any of the AIers sing one song. What was it about him that made you such a fan of his so early on? Just curious.

Actually the first time he was seen was on the auditions the first one in New York... he did the Dean Martin thing and then they told him to actually sing and he was soooooooo perfect... he had the whole Michael Bublé vibe and I just love that vibe and so yeah I was hooked. He's seems like a really sweet guy and that helps. NONE of the top 12 this year can compare to the top 12 last year, but I think John can do well... not AS WELL as maybe Kelly or Clay... but in the right circles he can. Michael Bublé never thought he'd go far and he's very popular! :)

Did you notice how the camera kept focusing on John Stevens's face. He had to have known he got a major gift not being in the bottom three or voted off.

He was crying at the end of the night... so upsetting :( When they called LaToya down rather than him he looked so shocked and MAD LOL

John and Camille both deserved to be down there... Camille more so than John because this was his first really awful week. She's been consistently worse everyweek... so UGH.

I'm just glad my two hours of voting ply my best friend's one hour of voting paid off. ;)

Most people just assumed Ruben was safe, allowing Josh fans, who probably realized Josh was in trouble, to vote Josh through for another week.


I was one of those fans who voted for Josh... an hour for Clay and an hour for Josh....Josh's phone was really busy that night...

Teenage girls vote for these two like there's no tomorrow, much like Clay last year (but at least Clay was very talented).

actually on different polls online the age groups for JPL and John are pretty diverse with the "older" fans being the biggest group of voters... much like Clay... the teens didn't vote for him... the old ladies did ;) (I'm joking about the old thing ;)) my mom voted for George and John a few weeks back like there was no tomorrow... so it's not just the dumb teens ;) (which I guess I'm still one until next January!)

Toni, you're right. These people don't connect with the fans as well as last year's contestants did. Clay and Ruben would own this competiton.

and I don't think it's from lack of trying on their parts... I mean 'Tasia thinks everyone and their dog loves and worships her and it's a turn off... but really Ruben and Clay had something these guys can't have... underdog advantage... JPL is the underdog... MAYBE but I think George is the bigger Underdog and the most like Ruben and Clay in that he's kinda dorky and really not what you'd consider a superstar... but still he's got a lot more appeal than Clay did in the beginning so really yeah... I'm rambling... effects of being sick... but really no one can compete with the Nerdy size 13 shoe guy from Raliegh and 'Bama's Velvet Teddy Bear....

so far the only nicknames we've had are "Scooter Girl" and "The Crooner" not exactly relatable names :(

Jennifer Hudson was B3, in fact B2. I think there's something about her that people just don't like. Beats the hell out of me since I thought she was great last night, FAR, FAR better than what Kim Locke did with "Heat Wave" last season.

ACtually she oversings and really has no appeal and her eyes getting bigger and bigger are distracting and she just isn't all that great... she's funny off stage and on camera but she just isn't my cup of tea

and she ruined that song last week... UGH
 
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show 42

Arm Chair Skate Fan
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Mike, good point. I was "tongue-in-cheek" when I mentioned the voting system, I'm sure it's on the up and up, but I'm wondering if they sometimes don't stick someone who has potential in the bottom three, just to shake things up a bit. They don't want to lose their "big guns" in the early rounds and end up with a winner who was voted in due to popularity, but may not have any $ earning potential. The producers are after all, in this to make a profit of some sort......42
 

RealtorGal

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
La Toya in the bottom 3? Oh, yeah, that was totally correct... NOT!

I don't think that overall last year's group was stronger than this year's. Last year we had those mega talents like Carmen, Josh & Kimberly Caldwell. Yawn! I think the judges made a huge mistake this year by allowing too many way-too-young singers into the final 12. That chick who got cut who sang the jazz song would have done better than Crooner and JPL. I really cannot believe that out of 70,000 auditioners, these are the two guys we're stuck with. Just a reminder that George--by far the best guy in the bunch--only made it as a last minute substitute for the guy that got arrested on a DUI. What does that tell you?

I think that the problem this year is that no one has won our hearts. Yes, La Toya and Fantasia are extremely talented but they don't give you the warm and fuzzies like Clay and Ruben did last year. Part of the charm of those two fellows was their extreme modesty, a "regular guy" quality with star potential. I think the public is trying to force those attributes onto JPL and Crooner, who definitely have the "regular guy" part down pat but they just don't have the "star potential" part.
 

RealtorGal

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Speaking of fabulous singers with modest demeanors... has anyone in the U.S. been able to snag Kurt Nielsen's CD in this country yet? (In case you've forgotten, Kurt is the current World Idol and an amazing talent.)
 

mike79

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
RealtorGal said:


I think that the problem this year is that no one has won our hearts. Yes, La Toya and Fantasia are extremely talented but they don't give you the warm and fuzzies like Clay and Ruben did last year. Part of the charm of those two fellows was their extreme modesty, a "regular guy" quality with star potential. I think the public is trying to force those attributes onto JPL and Crooner, who definitely have the "regular guy" part down pat but they just don't have the "star potential" part.

Exactly. No one is saying that this bunch is not as talented as season 2. The thing is that Ruben and Clay were able to not just sing well, but connect to fans on a personal level. The same can be said for Kelly in season 1. So many people from this season seem so artificial. On some other boards they're calling Diana: 'Diana Benet' because she's so made up.
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
see I don't see anyone as really fake(cept for that Leah Lebelle girl, thank GOD she's GONE!)

and JOSH is NOT BORING! GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR (gives her siggy a hug :laugh: ) Josh was country so he has a very selective group... I think that's where John Stevens is in trouble... because selective groups can only vote so much...

anywho.... :laugh:

My problem with Fantasia is she's so stuck on herself... the talking in the third person just drives me insane... it's like who died and made her god?

the rest just have no huge connection... there are glimpses but there's no Clay or Ruben or Josh for me this year... save for JOhn Stevens... but he's so young I don't know how far he'll go


and Camille is this year's Carmen end of story... very little talent, yet still in the competition way after she should be.
 
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Josh Gracin will have this one album and that's it. Sorry, but he's very boring and doesn't have the pipes to compete with so many other country singers already. He rode the wave of patriotism being a Marine on AI and more power to him for getting to do what he loves out of boot camp. But patriotism will only sell CDs for so long and that time is about over.

As for who connects and who doesn't, in that department, I mostly care that the singers be real. The thing about Fantasia is, there are many parts of the country where there are no Fantasias, ie, young, sassy, confident black women. However, in some parts of the country, Fantasias are everywhere, but without the voice. Enjoying being who you are, loving life, and being confident do not equal arrogant in everyone's eyes.

I think people also have a problem with Jennifer Hudson because of her style. I think a lot of it is an urban thing and the majority of the country is definitely suburban, hence the majority of AI fans. Jennifer does need to learn how to modulate her performance, but she already is. "Heat Wave" was a big improvement over her previous *all power* performances. But some/many people are never going to like more raw, earthy performers or personalities and that's all there is to it, which is too bad, because I think Jennifer has all the ingredients to be a professional singer. I don't think she's Idol material, but I think Fantasia is. As to *who died and made her god*--you figured it out, it was me.;)

Also, this whole *humble and modest* thing is great if that's who the person really is, as Clay and Ruben are, or *down to earth* as Kelly is. But if people are voting based on that, they'd be voting off people like Barbra Streisand, Diana Ross, Aretha Franklin, Tom Jones, Frank Sinatra--you get the idea.

Finally, I think this group is not only as good as last year's as far as connecting goes, I think they're better. Lest we forget, Clay Aiken was a Wild Card contestant, so America certainly didn't *get* him right away. Ruben was also in the B3 one week. (BTW Mike, your AI memory is amazing!) The biggest differences, IMO, are that there is no male heart throb, ie Justin; no male power singer, ie Clay; and no male teddy bear strong singer. And ITA with Mike that the three black divas are probably splitting the vote for that section of the audience, which is why we're seeing LaToya and Jennifer in the B3. The person I think this benefits most is Jasmine.

However, as Mike has reminded us, the AI audience seems to have an interesting way of making sure justice gets done--most of the time--even if somebody has a great performance the week after getting a gift. Unfortunately, the voting off of Tamyra Grey after her unfortunate song choice of "Running Hot, Running Cold" (they should remove that song from the list) is a reminder that America can vote off a singer who has it all, including connection--except that one night--in favor of a no-voice teen idol. Even though he came in second, it didn't do much for Justin Guarini. He was dropped from his contract after his first no-sale CD, made that incredibly embarrassing "Kelly and Justin" movie, and now isn't even a punchline. Tamyra, OTOH, could have really benefitted from an AI final two--I still think Kelly would have won.

And Rgal, no, I haven't seen Kurt Nielson's CD in the US and I wonder why. If you missed "World Idol," you missed an amazing talent who looks NOTHING like an anything idol. He beat Kelly Clarkson fair and square, so I'm very curious to hear his CD. He's a real phenom from one of the smaller northern European countries and would never have had a chance in hell of getting heard by a wide, much less a world audience, without AI. They're doing something right.

Sorry, one last word on the *how can these be the guys out of 70,000?*--the rules say that you can't have had a recording contract of any kind, which I assume means as a back-up singer, broadway, anything. I think there are a lot of people who managed to get some kind of contract who are thus ineligible, plus a lot of working singers in NY and LA who just don't have the money to take the time off their jobs to wait in line for three days for a chance of getting on the show. Plus there's a pre-cut, and obviously they don't cut based on singing ability, otherwise so many of those dog-howl whack jobs wouldn't get through. Finally, the reason great singers with all the good become idols and make jillions of dollars is because they really are rare.
Rgirl
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
Josh Gracin will have this one album and that's it. Sorry, but he's very boring and doesn't have the pipes to compete with so many other country singers already. He rode the wave of patriotism being a Marine on AI and more power to him for getting to do what he loves out of boot camp. But patriotism will only sell CDs for so long and that time is about over.

I dunno... he's really liked in teh country circle... I don't think he'll have just one CD... I think he can make it. He's got a great agent and he'll make it...

Edited to add: Not to be a total brat... but his official website now plays his full debut single... and I think he's just as awesome as any of the top singers out there right now in country... I think he's got the talent... I don't think it was always showcased on AI

I also think that he had so much more pressure than Ruben or Clay ever had and he even said numerous times that he hated staying in for as long as he did... not because he felt he didn't belong, but because being away from his family and missing his daughter's growing up and the huge ammount of pressure wasn't healthy for him...
 
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