South Korean federation's complaint to the ISU about judging

Sam-Skwantch · Apr 19, 2014

sk8in said:
It would be nice to see how much all the ladies skaters' PCS went up over this past season as well. Did they all get an equal boost, or were their PCS raised differently to negate their value? Carolina is known for high PCS right? And she got 10s at Sochi, but her PCS was still lower than Adelina's because you can't get higher than a 10. What the judges did was jack up Adelina's PCS so much, that there was no room for other skaters to best her in that half of the score. That is why it is outrageous. Maybe skaters typically get PCS boosts over the course of a season, but if that is the case it should be done proportionally.

Did you notice how you start of by clearly admitting that you don't actually know the PCS scores and how much they went up yet you have no problem concocting a conspiracy theory and convicting Adelina by the end and calling it outrageous without any evidence other than your own musing. It must be nice to think whatever you want and it's automatically some profound truth or something without citing a single source.

Meoima · Apr 19, 2014

lilahozi said:
This. Gotta compare apples to apples and not apples to oranges.
Also, aren't men's PCS calculated differently?

Yes, Men's PCS factor is 2.0, while ladies' PCS factor is 1.6

Barb · Apr 19, 2014

Jewels said:
Adelina's pcs boost was still 4 points higher than them, can't say that's little as it can make difference to the results.
And IMO it's more appropriate to compare with other skaters from this quad. I was using Mao and Joannie's pcs because they were Yuna's rivals at that time, and I wanted to explain how 'all' of them got up not just Yuna.
So anyway are you suggesting that Adelina deserved higher pcs than Mao and Caro in Sochi? I thought that was the main argument here.

Yuna did not deserved to be higher than Mao in the lp at Sochi, but even she was, it is unfair but it is like that, judging and scores always had been a big joke, now you noted because this time affected to Yuna.

Sam-Skwantch · Apr 19, 2014

chapis said:
Yuna did not deserved to be higher than Mao in the lp at Sochi, but even she was, it is unfair but it is like that, judging and scores always had been a big joke, now you noted because this time affected to Yuna.

This!!! 100 times over!!!

anonymous penguin · Apr 19, 2014

chapis said:
Yuna did not deserved to be higher than Mao in the lp at Sochi, but even she was, it is unfair but it is like that, judging and scores always had been a big joke, now you noted because this time affected to Yuna.

Mao's score was held down. Yuna's is fine. Mao's score isn't discussed as much because her short already took her out of medal contention.

If anything, Mao and Adelina's scores should be switched. Mao is the one who deserved a 149, and a 142 seems just for Sotnikova.

Meoima · Apr 19, 2014

chapis said:
Yuna did not deserved to be higher than Mao in the lp at Sochi, but even she was, it is unfair but it is like that, judging and scores always had been a big joke, now you noted because this time affected to Yuna.

:agree: Personally I think Mao should have won the free skate in Sochi. Skating early sure affected her long program's PCS. If she had skated in the last group, her score should have been 149, or even 150, not 142.

The scores have always been crazy these recent years. Sometimes skaters skated so well but received unreasonable low score in PCS (Dai and Yuzuru in world 2012). 85 PCS was the reason Dai lost the gold in WC 2012. But he got 90.22 PCS in GPF 2012 and it helped him get the gold there despite being placed 3rd in the free skate.

pangtongfan · Apr 19, 2014

The LP scores should have been something like:

Mao- 153
Yu Na- 150
Kostner- 148
Sotnikova- 138

Then with the right short program score for Sotnikova she would be lucky to keep the bronze over Mao.

Meoima · Apr 19, 2014

pangtongfan said:
The LP scores should have been something like:

Mao- 153
Yu Na- 150
Kostner- 148
Sotnikova- 138

Then with the right short program score for Sotnikova she would be lucky to keep the bronze over Mao.

Brian Orser, Yuna's ex coach, said he only watched ladies event through TV so he couldn't say anything for sure about the scores. But he thought Caro should have been the winner overall. I see it's so subjective about this matter. But he also think Yuna and Caro should have been scored higher.

pangtongfan · Apr 19, 2014

Petitefleur said:
2014 is not 2010. Skaters have improved. In 2010, I agree that Yuna was the better, however, I (and others) did not accept a so large gap between Yuna and Mao (more than 18 points in the free program), one might think that Yuna has been widely overscored in 2010.

Mao gave up atleast 10 points for her 2 big errors in the lP in vancouver, and more than that with lost GOE and PCS. Given that they had the same base value roughly Mao was never going to win even if both skated cleanly (given her jump GOE deficit she would always need a higher base value). So nothing out of line with the scores there. It wasnt anything like 2014 when Mao was actually attempting more difficulty by the rules than Yu Na and the others.

Barb · Apr 19, 2014

pangtongfan said:
The LP scores should have been something like:

Mao- 153
Yu Na- 150
Kostner- 148
Sotnikova- 138

Then with the right short program score for Sotnikova she would be lucky to keep the bronze over Mao.

Yuna was not same that good like in Vancouver, when her 150 already was overscored.

anonymous penguin · Apr 19, 2014

chapis said:
Yuna was not same that good like in Vancouver, when her 150 already was overscored.

Scoring is relative. The rank is more important than the actual numerical score.

pangtongfan · Apr 19, 2014

qwertyskates said:
Yet there were NO PROTEST when the SP results were out.

More proof you live under a little rock apart from the world. :laugh:

As for your big pity party for poor itty bitty Adelina please. The girl has an Olympic gold medal she doesnt even deserve, and anyone should feel sorry for her. :laugh:

The only ones to feel sorry for are those who got robbed of medals by the Putin Olympics, especialy someone like Kostner who finally skated her absolute best at an Olympics and was clearly robed of atleast silver, if not even gold. Nobody should feel sorry for the girl who was visited by a real life Santa Clause and got the kind of out of season Christmas gift most girls would only dream of, an olympic gold they didnt even earn.

pangtongfan · Apr 19, 2014

chapis said:
Yuna was not same that good like in Vancouver, when her 150 already was overscored.

Scores always escalate over time, and Yu Na's 150 in Vancouver was not an overscore. Only Maobots (which you clearly are one of, and I say that as someone who likes Mao alot more than Yu Na) have ever said so.

sk8in · Apr 19, 2014

Sam-Skwantch said:
Did you notice how you start of by clearly admitting that you don't actually know the PCS scores and how much they went up yet you have no problem concocting a conspiracy theory and convicting Adelina by the end and calling it outrageous without any evidence other than your own musing. It must be nice to think whatever you want and it's automatically some profound truth or something without citing a single source.

I stated that the judges jacked up Adelina's PCS score, preventing any competition in that half of the scoring. Calling that an conspiracy theory is an act of obfuscation. Did you notice how you acquiesce to the judges authority, perhaps because you are feeble minded and think it makes you look well reasoned or something? Some advice: authoritative reasoning just makes you look like a drone and a coward.

pangtongfan · Apr 19, 2014

Meoima said:
Brian Orser, Yuna's ex coach, said he only watched ladies event through TV so he couldn't say anything for sure about the scores. But he thought Caro should have been the winner overall. I see it's so subjective about this matter. But he also think Yuna and Caro should have been scored higher.

Yu Na and Carolina were very close, especialy in the LP so arguments could be made either way. What there is no argument about is that both were light years better than Adelina in both programs.

Barb · Apr 19, 2014

pangtongfan said:
Scores always escalate over time, and Yu Na's 150 in Vancouver was not an overscore. Only Maobots (which you clearly are one of, and I say that as someone who likes Mao alot more than Yu Na) have ever said so.

I said it, the judging was always a joke, they do it for manipulate more the scores. And Yuna was overscored, she barely changed her layout but her scores up tremendously between 2009-2010.

Meoima · Apr 19, 2014

pangtongfan said:
Yu Na and Carolina were very close, especialy in the LP so arguments could be made either way. What there is no argument about is that both were light years better than Adelina in both programs.

Overall I think Mao should have been over 150 for her long program in Sochi. But of course she was out of podium anyways so the judges find no reason to score her higher. If she was scored truthfully, she could have been 5th or even 4th, which means bad placement for Yulia.

As for Yuna and Caro. Personally I think Caro beat Yuna in PCS. Her Bolero was so much more lively and lovely. Yuna was very consistent but she was kinda flat there. Some blogger who wrote a lot about figure skating also stated that they thought Caro should have won overall.

Sam-Skwantch · Apr 19, 2014

pangtongfan said:
The LP scores should have been something like:

Mao- 153
Yu Na- 150
Kostner- 148
Sotnikova- 138

Then with the right short program score for Sotnikova she would be lucky to keep the bronze over Mao.

Um...you really see a 12 point gap between Adelina and Yuna. Seems a little OTT. Where exactly is this scoring coming from on the protocols? Yuna received some generous 10's on her PCS too for what was not her most inspired FS ...at least IMHO.

I'd have scored Mao about 145 and put both Adelina and Yuna around 140. My true opinion is that Yuna and Adelina were close enough that I just don't care who gets gold(maybe even Caro :slink:

)For Mao her SP was such a disaster....blowing all 3 jump passes.. Ugh. Give her 4th 5th or 6th....who cares. No medal though. She can have Yulia's 5th...it doesn't matter anyway...Yulia is using her 2nd at Worlds as her best score in the rankings anyway so you can put her in 10th and it wouldn't change a thing.

pangtongfan · Apr 19, 2014

Sam-Skwantch said:
Um...you really see a 12 point gap between Adelina and Yuna. Seems a little OTT. Where exactly is this scoring coming from on the protocols? Yuna received some generous 10's on her PCS too for what was not her most inspired FS ...at least IMHO.

I'd have scored Mao about 145 and put both Adelina and Yuna around 140. My true opinion is that Yuna and Adelina were close enough that I just don't care who gets gold(maybe even Caro )For Mao her SP was such a disaster....blowing all 3 jump passes.. Ugh. Give her 4th 5th or 6th....who cares. No medal though. She can have Yulia's 5th...it doesn't matter anyway...Yulia is using her 2nd at Worlds as her best score in the rankings anyway so you can put her in 10th and it wouldn't change a thing.

Adelina deserved flutz calls on both her lutzes (which leads to probably -GOE on both), underrotation on her triple toe of her triple lutz-triple toe, mostly -2s not -1s on the jump she stumbled out of, PCS about a full point lower per component on average than Kostner and Kim, GOEs lower on practically every element to what she got (while higher on many elements for Kim and Kostner vs what they got), level 3 on her footwork in both programs vs Kim and Kostner who both deserved level 4 (BOP already broke this down in extensive detail so I dont even have to bother here). In the end it would amount to about 10-12 points behind. I find the suggestion Kim and Sotnikova were even equal in the LP to be frankly laughable (although not as laughable as the newly minted millionare judges scores) but to each their own.

Barb · Apr 19, 2014

I wonder why Caro or Italy are not doing a protest, even in the stars on ice tour Japan there is a picture of Caro embracing to Adelina. Of course, because they know that is absurd. If someone has right to protest is Caro or Italy and they are not doing it, and even she show support for Adelina, I know that is not Yuna's obligation, but it would be nice of her at least give her congratulations for the win if Yuna knows that are people doing a fuss because this and it is not Adelina's fault.

South Korean federation's complaint to the ISU about judging

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

Meoima

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Barb

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

anonymous penguin

Meoima

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pangtongfan

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Meoima

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pangtongfan

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Barb

anonymous penguin

pangtongfan

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pangtongfan

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sk8in

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pangtongfan

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Barb

Meoima

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Sam-Skwantch

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pangtongfan

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Barb

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