South Korean federation's complaint to the ISU about judging

qwertyskates said:

Proof?

Click to expand...

no proof of course about everything ! just gossip gossip gossip like chickens in a coop making a lot of gossip noise

Russian news about KOC protest. They are saying that Adelina had only ONE mistake in her free skate. She did a mistake but the difficulty of her program was higher then from Korean skater. Also Tarasova (Coach): " Olympic games are free of manipulation, never had, never will have. And they (Koreans) better watch skate of their own skater which is definitely extraordinary athlete but on last Olympic games (2010) I thought she got too high scores compare to Mao Asada (PS She is Mao's choreographer). And by the second score Mao should been ahead of Yuna. It was impossible to compete. Adelina won so fair, over-jumped, her rotations were on different level. Adelina's win was pure." Then they are talking about Russian pair split. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbdjMdHnfVA -from fb

again I listened to (non-Russian) commentators during Yuna's free program, noting imperfect reception on a triple lutz, saying that the results would be tight, then that her program was maybe not enough to beat Sotnikova.

Petitefleur said:

again I listened to (non-Russian) commentators during Yuna's free program, noting imperfect reception on a triple lutz, saying that the results would be tight, then that her program was maybe not enough to beat Sotnikova.

Click to expand...

oh please

http://vimeo.com/89457478 Sky Italia

http://vimeo.com/88149429 CBC

Ven said:

It's obvious why the judges didn't notice it -- because the competition was rigged. It made no difference what the skaters did. Even Lipnitskaia (a 15 year old junior with no acclaim a month before Sochi) fell all over herself for two days and still earned a score high enough for the bronze at last Olympics. If she hadn't fallen down she probably would have scored over 230 herself.

Click to expand...

Ok so you say it was rigged? How? What ISU rule was in place that was violated?

Yulia no acclaim? Come on. We've discussed this plenty to know she has acclaim? Euros Gold, two GP gold and a GPF silver. Not worthy of acclaim. How about being the best female skater in the team OLYMPIC event which landed her a GOLD medal. I'll even give you Caro over a Yulia in the SP. Yulia was still the best...no argument! Lets at least be real about it. I didn't see a Russian judge or tech specialist in Japan for WC's. Was that rigged too? She scored a 207 there!!

cuon_alpinus said:

oh please

http://vimeo.com/89457478 Sky Italia
] CBC

Click to expand...

we recognize indeed the Italian exuberance! I listened to the end, he says that Yuna was perfect, but finally recognizes that she lacks a triple jump over Sotnikova, that her 2nd triple lutz was not perfect, that Sotnikova presented an Olympic program. The commentator says the interpretation of Yuna was above...and that figure skating is not just accounting...
which is an error, since in fact, all the elements have their value !

Petitefleur said:

we recognize indeed the Italian exuberance! I listened to the end, he says that Yuna was perfect, but finally recognizes that she lacks a triple jump over Sotnikova, that her 2nd triple lutz was not perfect, that Sotnikova presented an Olympic program. The commentator says the interpretation of Yuna was above...and that figure skating is not just accounting...
which is an error, since in fact, all the elements have their value !

Click to expand...

Tbh the Italian male commentator, the expert one not the general, did ask forgiveness in studio an hour later for his comments made in haste.
He thought Yuna should've won but he sees no scandal in Adelina's victory. His words.

Petitefleur said:

we recognize indeed the Italian exuberance! I listened to the end, he says that Yuna was perfect, but finally recognizes that she lacks a triple jump over Sotnikova, that her 2nd triple lutz was not perfect, that Sotnikova presented an Olympic program. The commentator says the interpretation of Yuna was above...and that figure skating is not just accounting...
which is an error, since in fact, all the elements have their value !

Click to expand...

Don't make me belittle Adelina Sotnikova. I don't want to. But I am extremely displeased by judges' decision over Adelina's performance. Judges should have caught her under-rotated jumps and wrong edges. This part is very objective part of judging and cannot be argued. When they say that the triple cost her 5 points, they are referring to just long program. FYI, If you sum up sp and lp, the base-value difference is just 1.44 points. The commentator said yuna's second 3lz wasn't perfect. yes but it definitely wasn't a jump that was going to be penalized. He said that it won't change anything.

cuon_alpinus said:

Judges should have caught her under-rotated jumps and wrong edges. This part is very objective part of judging and cannot be argued. When they say that the triple cost her 5 points, they are referring to just long program. FYI, If you sum up sp and lp, the base-value difference is just 1.44 points. The commentator said yuna's second 3lz wasn't perfect. yes but it definitely wasn't a jump that was going to be penalized. He said that it won't change anything.

Click to expand...

I agree. The tech. panel was not at all objective. The Level of step seq. was wrong too.

cuon_alpinus said:

Don't make me belittle Adelina Sotnikova. I don't want to. But I am extremely displeased by judges' decision over Adelina's performance. Judges should have caught her under-rotated jumps and wrong edges. This part is very objective part of judging and cannot be argued. When they say that the triple cost her 5 points, they are referring to just long program. FYI, If you sum up sp and lp, the base-value difference is just 1.44 points. The commentator said yuna's second 3lz wasn't perfect. yes but it definitely wasn't a jump that was going to be penalized. He said that it won't change anything.

Click to expand...

Yeah they are so caught up in explaining why Adelina deserved a higher score in lp that it seems they've forgotten about sp lol.

cuon_alpinus said:

oh please
http://vimeo.com/88149429 CBC

Click to expand...

it is normal that commentators enjoyed this beautiful program, the choreography, and Yuna has so many qualities.
everyone noted the small error in the jump...so Yuna and Adelina were not perfect...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgXKJvTVW9g
discussion between the commentators after 5'45: superb, she has nothing left, but it is very closed, there is room, a difference of 5 points in technical elements, not good enough ...

Petitefleur said:

it is normal that commentators enjoyed this beautiful program, the choreography, and Yuna has so many qualities.
everyone noted the small error in the jump...so Yuna and Adelina were not perfect...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgXKJvTVW9g
discussion between the commentators after 5'45: superb, she has nothing left, but it is very closed, there is room, a difference of 5 points in technical elements, not good enough ...

Click to expand...

You don't seem to get my point. There was a difference between Adelina's errors and Yuna's error. Adelina's errors(under-rotation, two-footed landing, wrong edge, wrong jumping technique, etc) deserve penalties of negative GOE, while Yuna's error(little shaky on the landing) deserves penalties of less positive GOE. And that commentator is not a bible. She certainly misses a point of comparing a short program. According to "her logic" of technical elements, Yuna should have gotten 2 points higher in her short program. But it certainly wasn't, right?

cuon_alpinus said:

The commentator said yuna's second 3lz wasn't perfect. yes but it definitely wasn't a jump that was going to be penalized. He said that it won't change anything.

Click to expand...

I am just speaking about the free program and the commentaries on TV. Of course, a skater can win even with a fall. Yes the italian commentator said that the mistake in this jump won't change anything , but it is "his" opinion ! why are you focusing ONLY on Sotnikova's minore mistake and do you forget the one made by Kim? Not adding a triple jump costed Yuna the gold.
I remember a commentator at the 1998 olympic games, won Lipinsky, who pointed to Kwan that she had room and the possibility of adding a triple in his free program...

no proof of course about everything ! just gossip gossip gossip like chickens in a coop making a lot of gossip noise

Click to expand...

If only it were just gossiping and rumors...they have also launched attacks on Adelina, Russia, Putin and Cinquanta.:disapp:

cuon_alpinus said:

Don't make me belittle Adelina Sotnikova. I don't want to. But I am extremely displeased by judges' decision over Adelina's performance. Judges should have caught her under-rotated jumps and wrong edges. This part is very objective part of judging and cannot be argued. When they say that the triple cost her 5 points, they are referring to just long program. FYI, If you sum up sp and lp, the difference is just 1.44 points. The commentator said yuna's second 3lz wasn't perfect. yes but it definitely wasn't a jump that was going to be penalized. He said that it won't change anything.

Click to expand...

You guys have already belittled Adelina all over the internet and on every Youtube, every forum, every news media related to Sochi. Thousands of thumbs down on every Adelina video. Death threats were already sent to her, her social media sites have been disfigured by the legions of Yuna hooligan fans. She is only 17, and her "mistake" to suffer vilification and her life made hell was to be awarded OGM over Yuna, who has already pocketed her first OGM. Yuna's fans are determined to RUIN Adelina, a 17yr old and a very good figure skater in her own right, for shame!

As for SP & LP, the judges for SP awarded Adelina TES GOE marks HIGHER than Yuna, despite a 1 pt TES BV advantage for Yuna. How do you explain the conflict of interest there?
Already for SP, judges marked Adelina as a technically stronger skater.

Statistically, you can't take total GOE of one skater and compare that to another, as the Base Value of their technical elements are different. It's comparing apples and oranges. So more accurately, we need to arrive at a RATIO of TES/BV

GOE awarded as a RATIO of TES are as follows

Yuna = 35.89/31.43 = 1.142
Adelina = 35.55/30.43= 1.168

Adelina's award over Yuna for SP = +0.026


The LP BV difference is 3.94.

Adelina's total TES/BV = 75.54/61.43 = 1.229
Yuna's TES/BV = 69.69/57.49 = 1.212

Adelina's award of GOE over Yuna = +0.017

So the judges during the SP were even MORE generous (150% more generous) towards Adelina's GOE than the judges in the LP. Yet there were NO PROTEST when the SP results were out.

LP judges were slandered accused of fraud, corruption, dragged through the mud, etc., yet they were LESS generous towards Adelina than the SP judges.


EDIT: As was pointed out, I mistakenly used PCS scores for SP. In fact, the SP judges were even MORE generous than LP judges, they gave 250% higher GOE than LP judges.

So the SP RATIO of TES/BV

Adelina = 39.09/30.43 = 1.285
Yuna = 39.03/31.43= 1.242


Adelina's GOE (as a ratio of BV) AWARD over Yuna for SP = +0.043

In contrast, Adelina's GOE (as a ratio of BV) over Yuna's for LP = +0.017


SP judges awarded GOE advantage to Adelina = 0.043/0.017x100% = 250% MORE than LP judges.


So WHY is it that ONLY LP judges are singled out for allegations of fraud, attacked for bias, etc., when they in fact gave a much lower % of POSITIVE GOE to Adelina over Yuna than the SP judges?

The award of GOE to Adelina vs Yuna by SP judges over LP judges is MUCH BIGGER than what I pointed out.

2014 is not 2010. Skaters have improved. In 2010, I agree that Yuna was the better, however, I (and others) did not accept a so large gap between Yuna and Mao (more than 18 points in the free program), one might think that Yuna has been widely overscored in 2010.

Petitefleur said:

2014 is not 2010. Skaters have improved. In 2010, I agree that Yuna was the better, however, I (and others) did not accept a so large gap between Yuna and Mao (more than 18 points in the free program), one might think that Yuna has been widely overscored in 2010.

Click to expand...

I think the tendency of judges under IJS scoring is to inflate the scores of the person that they think skated the best. or the skater that they want to win, just to make sure that the podium comes out the right way. If you just gave fair marks to each element, etc., who knows how it might add up in the end?

This was not a problem in 6.0 ordinal judging. If you thought that skater X was more deserving than skater Y you could give one 5.7, 5.8 and the other 5.7, 5.7. The score is close, but the judge has control over who gets the first place ordinal without artificially jacking up the scores.

qwertyskates said:

Death threats were already sent to her, her social media sites have been disfigured by the legions of Yuna hooligan fans. She is only 17, and her "mistake" to suffer vilification and her life made hell was to be awarded OGM over Yuna, who has already pocketed her first OGM. Yuna's fans are determined to RUIN Adelina, a 17yr old and a very good figure skater in her own right, for shame!

As for SP & LP, the judges for SP awarded Adelina TES GOE marks HIGHER than Yuna, despite a 1 pt TES BV advantage for Yuna. How do you explain the conflict of interest there?
Already for SP, judges marked Adelina as a technically stronger skater.

Statistically, you can't take total GOE of one skater and compare that to another, as the Base Value of their technical elements are different. It's comparing apples and oranges. So more accurately, we need to arrive at a RATIO of TES/BV

GOE awarded as a RATIO of TES are as follows

Yuna = 35.89/31.43 = 1.142
Adelina = 35.55/30.43= 1.168

Adelina's award over Yuna for SP = +0.026


The LP BV difference is 3.94.

Adelina's total TES/BV = 75.54/61.43 = 1.229
Yuna's TES/BV = 69.69/57.49 = 1.212

Adelina's award of GOE over Yuna = +0.017

So the judges during the SP was even MORE generous towards Adelina's GOE than those in the LP.

Click to expand...

Long time no see I previously stated that I despise those who give personal insults to others. And I am deeply ashamed of them and furious at them . And You are exaggerating too much dude. Those guys are not even figure skating fans and shouldn't listen to them. I don't consider those immature people as fans of anyone.

And you are not comparing TES on the short program. That score is PCS my friend

And TES/BV on your LP. It only indicates the biased judging. You know that they didn't even mark wrong edges and under-rotation, right?

cuon_alpinus said:

Long time no see I previously stated that I despise those who give personal insults to others. And I am deeply ashamed of them and furious at them . And You are exaggerating too much dude. Those guys are not even figure skating fans and shouldn't listen to them. I don't consider those immature people as fans of anyone.

And you are not comparing TES on the short program. That score is PCS my friend

And TES/BV on your LP. It only indicates the biased judging. You know that they didn't even mark wrong edges and under-rotation, right?

Click to expand...

Thank you for pointing out!

So the SP RATIO of TES/BV

Adelina = 39.09/30.43 = 1.285
Yuna = 39.03/31.43= 1.242


Adelina's GOE (as a ratio of BV) AWARD over Yuna's for SP = 1.285 - 1.242 = +0.043

In contrast, Adelina's GOE (as a ratio of BV) over Yuna's for LP = 1.229 - 1.212 = +0.017

SP judges awarded GOE to Adelina (advantage over Yuna) = 0.043/0.017x100% = 250% MORE than LP judges.

So it is BIGGER than what I pointed out, thank you for correction.

If you want to go after FRAUDULENT judging please go after those SP judges first, because they gave Adelina much higher GOE marks vs Yuna than the LP judges.

Therefore I don't understand the huge eruption, the slander, libel, accusations, etc., over the LP judges, the Russian judge who hugged Adelina, the corrupt Ukraine judge , etc. when the SP judges were apparently "more corrupt" than the LP judges.:sarcasm:

qwertyskates said:

Thank you for pointing out!

So the SP RATIO of TES/BV

Adelina = 39.09/30.43 = 1.285
Yuna = 39.03/31.43= 1.242


Adelina's GOE (as a ratio of BV) AWARD over Yuna's for SP = 1.285 - 1.242 = +0.043

In contrast, Adelina's GOE (as a ratio of BV) over Yuna's for LP = 1.229 - 1.212 = +0.017

SP judges awarded GOE to Adelina (advantage over Yuna) = 0.043/0.017x100% = 250% MORE than LP judges.

So it is BIGGER than what I pointed out, thank you for correction.

If you want to go after FRAUDULENT judging please go after those SP judges first, because they gave Adelina much higher GOE marks vs Yuna than the LP judges.

Therefore I don't understand the huge eruption, the slander, libel, accusations, etc., over the LP judges, the Russian judge who hugged Adelina, the corrupt Ukraine judge , etc. when the SP judges were apparently "more corrupt" than the LP judges.:sarcasm:

Click to expand...

Yeah, that's what I was thinking all this time. Since everyone is so caught up in lp scores, they seem to have forgotten all about sp. I don't know if there was a corruption or something going on behind their backs, but one thing is sure, that the score was favorable to Adelina in total, with all the GOEs and PCS she received, whether it was the judges' intention, or mistake.

Jewels said:

Yeah, that's what I was thinking all this time. Since everyone is so caught up in lp scores, they seem to have forgotten all about sp. I don't know if there was a corruption or something going on between their backs, but one thing is sure, that the score was favorable to Adelina in total, with all the GOEs and PCS she received, whether it was the judges' intention, or mistake.

Click to expand...

How was Adelina's SP scored before Sochi? I mean her highest SP before Sochi?