South Korean federation's complaint to the ISU about judging | Page 72 | Golden Skate

South Korean federation's complaint to the ISU about judging

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”
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Dec 29, 2013
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except julia bombed.. if she didn't.. i expect her to get those goe's+..

That is so lame. You criticize a skater for a skate you're creating in your head and then hint she wouldn't deserve the scores that you imagine she'd get. Come off it already. This is the definition of biased. You've already determined she doesn't deserve +GOE without any actual skating.
 

DarR

Rinkside
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Mar 2, 2012
It's because most fans know there was no controversy. Only a select few who ignore that Yuna had a < in the SP that wasn't called, another uncalled < and a shaky landing in the LP that inexplicably got +3 from a judge, are mad.

I wonder which judge gave Yuna the +3 for that 3Lz.. hmm.. I'd say a poor judge. +2 for her better 3Lz-3T, +1 for her better 3F, and overall 8 +1 GOEs out of 12 elements. And that judge decided Yuna's best element was her (I'd say) wonky 3Lz that deserved +1.

But as some would argue, that +3 wasn't taken into consideration, like how the GOE awarded by one judge who gave Adelina +3s on almost all of her elements would have been ignored.
 

Naya

On the Ice
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Feb 27, 2014
Fans will continue to debate/whine/defend/cry foul/etc. for years and years to come. It's been 16 years since Nagano and you can still get a 5+ page thread about why Michelle should have won/why Tara deserved to win. It's the nature of figure skating fans.

What's important for me is that both Yu-Na and Adelina have moved on and are looking forward. No, I don't think Adelina deserved the scores she got but, yes, I do think she made a very strong case for gold. To me, she skated like she wanted it more than anyone else that night and for that reason, I was fine with her winning even though I thought her scores were too high. The downside for Adelina is that win has complicated her career b/c now she's in a position of needing to live up to what she did in Sochi to validate her win there. She'll be under a lot of pressure going forward. I think she's immensely talented and I'd love to see her succeed but the point is she has her work cut out for her in the coming years...

Yu-Na was able to exit the sport with her head held high though I'm sure most of her overzealous fans are convinced she sits at home crying about not winning in Sochi and throwing darts at a picture of Adelina's face. :rolleye: She's moved on, she's happy, she's starting the next chapter of her life away from figure skating and I'm thrilled for her.

I'm ok with Adelina's victory too. Actually I think her olympic programs were pretty well designed, except the lp's first movements (strange, robotic), and she skated with passion. But the final gap in the scores was really unfair.
 

DarR

Rinkside
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Mar 2, 2012
Yuna had two level 4 spins and one level 3 spin (and had been since late 2012). Adelina's spins were all level 4.

Yup. The other poster claimed that Adelina made up more than 1 point from her spins over Yuna (because Adelina had a BV of 1 point less but scored almost the same in the SP as Yuna), but I calculated that Yuna scored only 0.87 less than Adelina on spins.
 

sk8in

Match Penalty
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Jan 15, 2014
Yuna's 3Lz was more than 1/4 but less than 1/2 short, like her 3T in the SP. It's not an "accusation" it's based on slow motion video which I posted earlier in the thread. Adelina's 3T in her combo was also short. However, there have been credited 3T that were even less rotated than Yuna's and Adelina's, such as Ashley Wagner's early season 3-3 attempts.
No actually you originally said it was over a half rotation short. And you made that claim by comparing her jumping position to the position she took after she landed. The take away is that you make things up when other logically break down your arguments.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
No actually you originally said it was over a half rotation short. And you made that claim by comparing her jumping position to the position she took after she landed. The take away is that you make things up when other logically break down your arguments.

No. What I said is that a skater can prerotate a jump by 1/4 or 1/2 but they must also be within a 1/4 turn on the landing, and that the amount of prerotation cannot be credited at the end. I used the example of how an overrotated toe axel is still not a double toe. Your argument was that although Yuna turned almost a half turn on the ice to get backwards in the direction the jump was moving, it is ok because she did not prerotate the full 1/2 but a bit less. I said if that's the case, Yuna could be almost a full 1/2 turn short on the landing and still get full credit under your interpretation of the rule. You believe that you don't have to be within a 1/4 turn on the landing if you don't prerotate the jump as much and I was explaining why that is not the intention of the rule (i.e. the jump must have both features of not prerotating more than 1/2 and being within 1/4 of the landing).

Regardless, it was close, she got full credit, and she still lost. I am happy with that.
 

sk8in

Match Penalty
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Jan 15, 2014
No, you said she was half a rotation short and that her turn out on her landing reflected full rotation. I (and others) then pointed out to you that she turned out facing the opposite direction from the one she took off in---which would have made it over rotated, and like an inverted axel jump if she landed it that way. Several posters pointed this out to you, and you never admitted you were wrong.

Again, where as others have pointed out that Adelina's jump combinations were junior level (3T-3T). She had junior level steps (see entire thread dedicated to an objective comparison of Yuna and Adelina's steps). Her jumping technique was sloppy (change of edge on her Lz, CLEARLY not a steady outside edge). She was ranked a dozen points over skaters with more difficult technical content (Gracie Gold and Polina Edmunds). You have made up accusations against Yuna that you are the sole observer of, and no one else sees as credible.

If you're going to be Adelina's lone defender, argue it on the merits, instead of trying to float some propaganda non-sense.
 

Alain

Match Penalty
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Apr 28, 2014
No, you said she was half a rotation short and that her turn out on her landing reflected full rotation. I (and others) then pointed out to you that she turned out facing the opposite direction from the one she took off in---which would have made it over rotated, and like an inverted axel jump if she landed it that way. Several posters pointed this out to you, and you never admitted you were wrong.

Again, where as others have pointed out that Adelina's jump combinations were junior level (3T-3T). She had junior level steps (see entire thread dedicated to an objective comparison of Yuna and Adelina's steps). Her jumping technique was sloppy (change of edge on her Lz, CLEARLY not a steady outside edge). She was ranked a dozen points over skaters with more difficult technical content (Gracie Gold and Polina Edmunds). You have made up accusations against Yuna that you are the sole observer of, and no one else sees as credible.

If you're going to be Adelina's lone defender, argue it on the merits, instead of trying to float some propaganda non-sense.
You wish. Happy people often do not Internet to celebrate. I see no point in wasting my time on biased fans. Cheers to those who think different.
 

drivingmissdaisy

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Feb 17, 2010
No, you said she was half a rotation short and that her turn out on her landing reflected full rotation. I (and others) then pointed out to you that she turned out facing the opposite direction from the one she took off in---which would have made it over rotated, and like an inverted axel jump if she landed it that way. Several posters pointed this out to you, and you never admitted you were wrong.

So the 3Lz was overrotated? If that's what you really think there's nothing to discuss. Feel free to reinvent history and count her on-ice rotation as in-air rotation. Here's the slow motion of the jump: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgXKJvTVW9g Start at 6:35 to see the jump you claim is overrotated :laugh:
 

drivingmissdaisy

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Feb 17, 2010
You have made up accusations against Yuna that you are the sole observer of, and no one else sees as credible.

What have I accused Yuna of? Many people agree the jump was underrotated, go back in the thread and see for yourself, please don't take my word for it. If you'd like to find the page where I pointed it out I can show you where other people agreed.
 

sk8in

Match Penalty
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Jan 15, 2014
What have I accused Yuna of? Many people agree the jump was underrotated, go back in the thread and see for yourself, please don't take my word for it. If you'd like to find the page where I pointed it out I can show you where other people agreed.
No actually there wasn't a single person I saw who agreed with you. Also, I clearly did not claim the jump was overrotated. Again, you are the person who considered Yuna's on-ice rotation as a necessary part of the complete the jump. To anyone with a basic knowledge of Lutz jumps, that accusation doesn't make any sense. More than one person called you out on this, and you simply ignored it. Clearly because your intention was never to legitimately question Yuna's Lz rotations in the first place. It was merely to make people scrutinize the jump, and thus not pay attention to the fact that Adelina can't even perform a triple jump with a proper outside edge. The pattern is, make an accusation, link to a YouTube, be disproven, and change to another accusation. That is why your arguments end up being full of so many straw men. Now in this thread you're trying to talk about a 3T she did---which to everyone else's eyes was fully rotated. It is transparent to everyone that it isn't about who skated best that night for you. It is about affecting peoples' perception to fulfill your predisposed acceptance of Adelina as the winner.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

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Jan 25, 2013
Drivingmissdaisy, you've made your technical case for Sotnikova winning. How do you explain her PCS scores being higher than Kostner's and on par with Kim? (Sorry too lazy to go back in the thread to see if you mentioned it)
 

drivingmissdaisy

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Feb 17, 2010
Drivingmissdaisy, you've made your technical case for Sotnikova winning. How do you explain her PCS scores being higher than Kostner's and on par with Kim? (Sorry too lazy to go back in the thread to see if you mentioned it)

I wasn't in the building so what I see on TV isn't necessarily how the judges viewed the programs live. As far as Carolina, the second half of her program was almost completely void of any transitions. She mostly just skates from jump to jump from the 3Lo onwards. With Yuna, she did have fewer transitions than Adelina but in many ways is a superior skater. However, she did appear tight and I think that affected the judges marks. She skated much more defensively than in Vancouver or last year's worlds, whereas Adelina attacked her program. Like I said before, every judge gave Adelina at least two PCS marks of 9 or higher, so there was unanimous consensus on the panel that Adelina skated marvelously.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

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Jan 25, 2013
I wasn't in the building so what I see on TV isn't necessarily how the judges viewed the programs live. As far as Carolina, the second half of her program was almost completely void of any transitions. She mostly just skates from jump to jump from the 3Lo onwards. With Yuna, she did have fewer transitions than Adelina but in many ways is a superior skater. However, she did appear tight and I think that affected the judges marks. She skated much more defensively than in Vancouver or last year's worlds, whereas Adelina attacked her program. Like I said before, every judge gave Adelina at least two PCS marks of 9 or higher, so there was unanimous consensus on the panel that Adelina skated marvelously.

Okay, well, disregarding Carolina's marks or Kim's marks, do you think Adelina deserved a PCS score of 74 points with that program/skate, as (almost) clean as it was executed technically?
 

drivingmissdaisy

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Feb 17, 2010
To anyone with a basic knowledge of Lutz jumps, that accusation doesn't make any sense. More than one person called you out on this, and you simply ignored it. Clearly because your intention was never to legitimately question Yuna's Lz rotations in the first place.

Absolutely it was. You do see in the video I linked, Yuna's toe pick is pointing towards the bottom left of the window when it touches down. I invite you to again look at it in slow motion. To be within a quarter-turn, it would need to be pointing directly at the bottom of the screen. Again, jumps like this are downgraded often and fully-credited often. And like I said, it doesn't matter because everyone knows the right skater won. You don't have to take this so personally, the competition is over and although you think a questionable edge should disqualify someone from winning gold, most others do not.
 

drivingmissdaisy

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Feb 17, 2010
Okay, well, disregarding Carolina's marks or Kim's marks, do you think Adelina deserved a PCS score of 74 points with that program/skate, as (almost) clean as it was executed technically?

Of the three, I'd probably have Adelina highest in TR, IN and PE, Carolina highest in SS, and Yuna highest in CH. To me, Adelina had the best performance and most transitions so anything related to that I'd have her ahead of the others.
 
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