Elena Ilinykh & Nikita Katsalapov Split

sisinka said:

The question is which part of I&K will be supported more by Russian Federation? And of course, who will be prefered by judges?

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The one that will have made more progress I think? Although, it might depend also from the coaches and politics? I don't know...

sisinka said:

I would add Gwendal Peizerat also.
Just for fun compare how can two ladies change with different make-up (they are both beauties by the way):

...if Viki or Lena want, they can change make-up and look like grown-up or innocent girl or tender lady or vamp...it is all in their hand...and in their make-up style.

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Yes, Gwendal too.
It's true, for a woman is easier to change the look thanks to the make up.

nimi said:

Pechalat is another one who obviously had A LOT of strength. Some of their lifts were pretty amazing. I will miss them.

I don't understand people who disapprove female athletes for looking too athletic, as if that somehow negates their femaleness or something.

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Well, it can effect the lines like Duhamel for example. However, you don't need to be like her in order to be toned. There are so many strong skaters which have a beautiful body and lines.

Alba said:

Yes, so? I don't understand what's your point?

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Really? You think a team can dominate without medaling At a gp event?

gmyers said:

Really? You think a team can dominate without medaling At a gp event?

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You're talking about the past and I was talking about the future.
My answer is YES! I think a team with their skating skills, talent, chemistry, good coach and hard work could have dominated the next quad.
That means GPF, Euros and Worlds.

Alba said:

You're talking about the past and I was talking about the future.
My answer is YES! I think a team with their skating skills, talent, chemistry, good coach and hard work could have dominated the next quad.
That means GPF, Euros and Worlds.

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The failings of their interpersonal relationship made that impossible. So you would have had NHK's all the time which meant no GPfs and no euro or world titles.

gmyers said:

The failings of their interpersonal relationship made that impossible. So you would have had NHK's all the time which meant no GPfs and no euro or world titles.

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My point was like, what a pity and that TAT was right to be mad, because they could've been so great. We know they are a dead couple now.
I didn't say they should stick together no matter what, when he clearly does not want. So really, I still don't get what you are talking about.

dorispulaski said:

In fact, Ilinykh may be too thin for lifts, or not enough muscle toned.

This from Tanith Belbin is on point. She found gaining a few pounds made it easier for Ben (who had chronic back problems all his career) to lift her. Tanith is near in size to Ben, BTW.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/17/sports/olympics/17icedancers.html?_r=0

Perhaps North American female dancers train arm strength and core strength harder than Elena and perhaps some other Russian dance ladies accounts for some of the lift problems we see from those teams?

If there is a fault here, it is in the coaching, BTW, not the skaters'.

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I had to leave, but I was going to mention Tanith and what she's said about weight! I always thought that interview/article was insightful.

well it's sad that they are broken up. I don't read Russian, but this looks like a great tribute page to them. All their great programs and photos -
http://www.spletnik.ru/blogs/sport-i-sportsmeny/88712_elena-ilinykh-i-nikita-katcalapov

Kitt said:

well it's sad that they are broken up. I don't read Russian, but this looks like a great tribute page to them. All their great programs and photos -
http://www.spletnik.ru/blogs/sport-i-sportsmeny/88712_elena-ilinykh-i-nikita-katcalapov

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This is an article about I&K describing their career since beginning, but it is from 18th of February, so it looks like a tribute after Olympic Medal. In those times nobody except Nikita and Morozov and maybe Victoria didn't know about a split planned.

dorispulaski said:

In fact, Ilinykh may be too thin for lifts, or not enough muscle toned.

This from Tanith Belbin is on point. She found gaining a few pounds made it easier for Ben (who had chronic back problems all his career) to lift her. Tanith is near in size to Ben, BTW.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/17/sports/olympics/17icedancers.html?_r=0



Perhaps North American female dancers train arm strength and core strength harder than Elena and perhaps some other Russian dance ladies accounts for some of the lift problems we see from those teams?

If there is a fault here, it is in the coaching, BTW, not the skaters'.

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Nice article, many skaters are forced by coaches/parents/Federation/sometimes even by fans to lose weight to look "better". I personally don't like it, because I think that every skater has its own body building and we should respect how are his/her muscles and bones in reality, not that everybody should look like Meryl or Penny Coomes. Plus appropriate costumes help a lot to hide many things.

I find stupid idea to compare for example Khohlova and Domnina or Bobrova and Ilinykh or Meryl and Tanith. Those are tall versus small or smaller girls. It is quite normal that smaller girl has more tiny bones and less wide shoulders and she is simply smaller in every point of view. Also I don't see a reason why to compare for example Ilinykh, Hurtado or Leonova with who knows Suzuki, Coomes - some people (especially Asians) have more tiny body buildings and some don't. But it doesn't mean that somebody is fat. Somebody tends to creat big muscles (Joubert) and it brings an idea that he is more "big" than others but he is no way fat.

Lena is more thin than tall girls - Bobrova, Monko, Sinitsina, Yanovskaya - as to bone structure. But those girls look to have muscles more strengtened and all those four girls have long legs which also helps the idea of being more slim on the ice plus all those four girls have more proportional body building. On some photos Lena's ribs are visible, but she is kind of woman who has ability to put kilograms on her hips and back side and legs while upper body stays very very thin. While for example Bobrova who came throught changements in her body some years ago put kilogrames on part of waist and chest. This is normal and every girl comes throught it, you simply can't look like 15 or 16 years old girl forever. But many coaches don't want to accept it.

I think that Lena and many other Russian (and not only Russian) girls have the same problem. They eat minimum to lose weight, but they are not working as much on making their muscles strengthened. On the contrary American and Canadian girls are doing more exercises off the ice and you can see it mainly in lifts that they don't have a problem in making their body strengthened and helping partner.

I think this is overall Russian non understandment of what is necessary for acrobatic lifts. They all work with specialists and learn difficult lifts, but their body doesn't look ready for such demands in comparison with Americans and Canadians.

gmyers said:

You are aware of the fact that I/k didn't medal at NHK 2013 right?

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I'm very sure they wanted to switch their Olympic medal to NHK Trophy 2013 medal, but ISU not allowed.

sisinka said:

Sinitsina & Zhiganshin with no support from Federation and with Tarasova talking bad about them finished on 4 a 7 place at their first European and World Champs (but with 2 top couples at European Champs and 3 top couples at World Champs out).

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Yes, S&Z had a good result for their first Worlds. What surprises me about all this is how S&Z got drawn into the I&K drama. I think most people can understand why I&K are breaking apart if the rumors about their relationship deteriorating and Morozov coming between them are true. But if I&K are splitting up, why are S&Z breaking up? Is it because they were pressured into accommodating I&K's need for new partners? Or is it because S&Z were already unhappy in their own partnership and one of them decided to seize the opportunity of the I&K split to make a switch of their own?

Although S&Z finished well at Worlds, their FD was not perfect, and they ended up finishing behind G&P in the FD. Maybe their partnership was already feeling the strain of the I&K situation?

Ryan O said:

Yes, S&Z had a good result for their first Worlds. What surprises me about all this is how S&Z got drawn into the I&K drama. I think most people can understand why I&K are breaking apart if the rumors about their relationship deteriorating and Morozov coming between them are true. But if I&K are splitting up, why are S&Z breaking up? Is it because they were pressured into accommodating I&K's need for new partners? Or is it because S&Z were already unhappy in their own partnership and one of them decided to seize the opportunity of the I&K split to make a switch of their own?

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The Russian forums say Nikita is dating Victoria and that's why he wants to skate with her. Even if it's not true, it's understandable that he would want someone else lined up before splitting with Elena, and I guess Victoria could see him as an upgrade over Ruslan. They didn't do that well at the Olympics, maybe that laid some doubts in her mind.

I spoke to someone yesterday who has talked to Elena - she says eventually she'll be OK and move on, but at the moment everything feels like a bad dream, she couldn't see this coming at all and she still doesn't know who she'll be partnered with in the future.

Ryan O said:

Yes, S&Z had a good result for their first Worlds. What surprises me about all this is how S&Z got drawn into the I&K drama. I think most people can understand why I&K are breaking apart if the rumors about their relationship deteriorating and Morozov coming between them are true. But if I&K are splitting up, why are S&Z breaking up? Is it because they were pressured into accommodating I&K's need for new partners? Or is it because S&Z were already unhappy in their own partnership and one of them decided to seize the opportunity of the I&K split to make a switch of their own?

Although S&Z finished well at Worlds, their FD was not perfect, and they ended up finishing behind G&P in the FD. Maybe their partnership was already feeling the strain of the I&K situation?

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Maybe Sinitsina thought Katsalapov is much much more good looking than Zhiganshin Other than that I'm curious about this too.

elif said:

Maybe Sinitsina thought Katsalapov is much much more good looking than Zhiganshin Other than that I'm curious about this too.

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According to the information above that was just posted by uhh, it appears that may be the case!

Nothing to do with the thread BUT WHATS GOING ON WITH ALL THOSE POSTS @.@

pamela said:

Nothing to do with the thread BUT WHATS GOING ON WITH ALL THOSE POSTS @.@

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I think it's someone Spamming the board. I think it happened a few weeks ago. Maybe the same person/website doing it again?

http://winter.sport-express.ru/figureskating/reviews/43330/

Article from Elena Vaitsekhovskaya - she believes that thanks to the federation giving S/K time to consider whether they will work together, Nikita will be able to understand the amount of work it will take to make a new partnership work, and that they can't expect to seamlessly replace their old partners. The implication is that at the moment he doesn't really understand that, or hasn't thought about the position the new team will be in, especially as none of the other teams are sitting around waiting for Katsalapov to sort himself out, they are already working for next season. She then goes on to discuss how much the athletes should be free to make these kinds of decisions considering that they are in effect employees of the RFSF, and then how much they should be willing to fund this new project considering how much was already put into I/K and S/Z and how many other established dance teams there are in Russia. Then she praises Elena for her adult response to this in getting back on her feet quickly with Kustarova - she says a lot of coaches were interested, and Elena chose Kustarova after working with her last year when Morozov went to Japan for personal reasons & left his dancers in Moscow & Elena knew from this experience that Kustarova would work well with her. She also suggests I/Z may have an advantage because their coaching set up is established, where as S/K will also have to deal with Morozov setting up in New Jersey, a process that she says is not always easy.

Then she finishes by saying that it may still be possible that I/K won't split in the end, but that they would have to completely reassess who they train with, and there would always be the worry that these issues could raise their head again, and she points out that the cycle for 2018 has already begun, and the winners may not be the most talented, but it will be the team that manages to have a secure set up, trusting their partner & coaches, and who are willing to make sacrifices for those years to achieve what they want in their careers.

uhh said:

Then she finishes by saying that it may still be possible that I/K won't split in the end, but that they would have to completely reassess who they train with, and there would always be the worry that these issues could raise their head again, and she points out that the cycle for 2018 has already begun, and the winners may not be the most talented, but it will be the team that manages to have a secure set up, trusting their partner & coaches, and who are willing to make sacrifices for those years to achieve what they want in their careers.

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Thanks for the recap. If they don't split up, I guess judges won't take them seriously afterall knowing that at any moment they again can have their issues. I mean judges wouldn't want to invest in irrelaible project.

uhh said:

http://winter.sport-express.ru/figureskating/reviews/43330/

Then she finishes by saying that it may still be possible that I/K won't split in the end, but that they would have to completely reassess who they train with, and there would always be the worry that these issues could raise their head again, and she points out that the cycle for 2018 has already begun, and the winners may not be the most talented, but it will be the team that manages to have a secure set up, trusting their partner & coaches, and who are willing to make sacrifices for those years to achieve what they want in their careers.

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Rubirosa said:

Thanks for the recap. If they don't split up, I guess judges won't take them seriously afterall knowing that at any moment they again can have their issues. I mean judges wouldn't want to invest in irrelaible project.

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I would be more worried that if they don't split up, they would have wasted several months that their competitors have been using to prepare for their new season. So, let's say that in July/August Katsalapov realises that he is not getting with Sinitsina anywhere good enough to be Russian number 2 or 3 and that they may not end up even being sent to competitions (Europeans/Worlds). So he will approach Ilynikh and ask her to skate with him and what? If she does, they won't be suddenly prepared to start competing together in September or October; they won't have programs etc. But if she tells him that she is not interested any more, she will be risking her career to skate with 'the worse' partner.