World's 2014 Ice Dance Judging Was a Breath of Fresh Air

dorispulaski said:

I wasn't surprised when their scores dropped either. I was, however, surprised that they were initially so high, since the flaws were not invisible in real time.

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I don't think the Twizzles accounted for the big drop in the TES at all. Perhaps the twizzles were not their best but they still got a Level 4 and all + GOEs. I am pretty certain that at least a couple of points were lost on review of the circular footwork. I try not to pay that much attention to the TES ticker, but did notice that after the first element, Circular Footwork, they had 10+ points. That says to me it was called a Level 4 and then changed to a Level 3 upon review. Other than that they got a Level 3 on the Diagonal footwork and Level 4 on all other elements. I also wonder if the same thing happened with the Diagonal Footwork. At any rate, I am convinced that the reduction in TES was probably based on issues that were imperceptible to the naked eye. That said, my hat's off to Weaver and Poje. Great FD and well deserved Silver medal!

Weaver and Poje's tango is a signal to me that they're ready to elevate themselves to an even higher level.

I thought it was fantastic at the Olympics, even more so than here.

I'll be interested to see how they follow up. They may be nearing an age where continuing for another four years is uncertain, but I feel like they're just beginning to reach some of their very best skating... given a good program, of course.

How oddly strange to see a major competition without D/W and V/M. I had mentioned that I'm ready for them to move on, but perhaps I spoke prematurely. They were missed, at least by me.

Blades of Passion said:

But that's exactly the point...this shouldn't matter at all. Someone can be 24th in the SP and deserve to score 1st in the LP if they skate well enough.

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That is true. Skating order is playing an increasingly large role in marks and results. I am not sure if that was the case here or not (although it might have been), but it was a huge factor in Mao's olympic LP score, Kim's Olympic and Worlds SP scores, Hurtado & Diaz's scores here. It is a bigger factor than under 6.0 and that is crazy.

Ladskater said:

Compared to the controversial ice dance judging at the Sochi Olympics, the judging at this World Championships was like a breath of fresh air. Even ice dance coach/ice dance analyzer for the CBC (with Kurt Browning) made the comment that the "judging was the way it should be." All the marks were close, and no favoritism was shown towards any particular ice dance team. It really was a competition as Carol said. It was really wonderful skating and was great to watch each team trying to best each other. Let's hope the ice dance judging can keep improving.

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I haven't seen the rerun of the World's Ice dancing yet, but out of morbid curiousity, what was the bad judging in Ice Dance at the Olympics? That they didn't make yet another gold medal for Canadians portraying innocent lovers in love?

Poodlepal said:

I haven't seen the rerun of the World's Ice dancing yet, but out of morbid curiousity, what was the bad judging in Ice Dance at the Olympics? That they didn't make yet another gold medal for Canadians portraying innocent lovers in love?

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Do we really have to go over this bs again?

kresslia said:

Do we really have to go over this bs again?

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Absolutely. We need to get XXX in here so he can regale us, yet again, with his reasons why D/W suck.

PS. I X'd out the name I intended to post... in keeping with the spirit of fairness and lovey-dovey.

Well, considering D/W did the same program with more or less the same layout for the past 6 years (in which the music could be interchanged for 2009, 2013, and 2014) , and the emphasis on their choreography for less skating and more short flat steps, and add to that D/W do not have the strongest basic skating skills, it is no surprise that the ISU just rewarded C/L with the world title. The more I watched C/L, especially the SD, the more I thought, this is D/W 2.0, no question about it. IMO, C/L actually look like they are enjoying skating though, not at all jaded, so give them credit for that.

Unfortunately this way of ice dancing will continue, until we have a great couple like I/K who is consistent enough to deliver in the big events. Sadly, they are too unreliable at this point. Sinitsina/Zhiganshin might be able to deliver in the coming years. Bobrova/Soloviev have great skating skills and toe point and can actually hold their lines and deep edges, but their packaging seems to be very unpopular, at least probably in North America (I don't know). I think it was horrible they had to change their FD in an Olympic year just a month before the Games. They and I/K could challenge for 2018 gold if both healthy.

Shibs: I hope they go somewhere else. Someone who will teach them movement and about being dancers. Their skating skills are good but not exceptional. Since they have nothing going for them at the moment with the bad programs, they need something else to stand out. I/K, S/Z, and B/S all have better skating skills, and they can move up faster with it. Also, even Chock/Bates (at least, Chock) at least skates to the music better than Shibs IMO. Krylova is doing a great job with Hubbell/Donohue so I'm not so sure she will take the Shibs.

Coomes/Buckland: Platov is showing that not ice dancing is the now new ice dancing. I still can't believe the mid-7s for PCS. There is no flow at all in nearly anything. Can you imagine if Kerrs were still skating and Coomes/Buckland are relegated to British No.2 couple? Coomes/Buckland would probably be 18th by now.

Chock/Bates: For someone who was so revered with his partnership with Emily Samuelson (well at least at GoldenSkate), I actually found that Bates's skating skills are weaker than Chock's and his edges are quite shallow and not steady . I find it funny reading so many who think that if he is a male ice dancer, and he is American, he must have great edges to die for . And if he is American, and is a male ice dancer, and is clean-cut and elegant, he is an ice dancing god with godly edges (Only in Goldenskate). No offense but he reminds me of Charlie White in 2008. Chock skates to the music much better than the Shibutanis but C/B look so laboured in the footwork. Going to Igor was a smart move though.

S/Z: excellent skating skills and ice dancers. Hope they can maintain their good TES because their PCS is very promising already. Hopefully they don't go to Shpilband and turn into the next R/T even though they are better skaters than them.

I like P/B but IMO I liked them a little better with Krylova. Maybe it was their slightly younger ages but IMO, they had a little more speed then (JMO).

W/P are not the most natural skaters (I also find them too stiff as dancers), but their edges are improved and I generally like their FDs. Great transitions and always connected with the music, like P/B.

Meoima said:

Personally I think Machida was marked highest. From 83 in Sochi to 98 is a loooong way, it's 15 points and within a month. Javi's SP in Sochi was 86. So within one month he got more than 10 points for bonus, huh? Machida and Javi executed well but should be + 5 or +7 at most. The different between 1 month is more than 10 points apart you know. How can I buy that?

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These are no real arguments. Judges are supposed to mark the program and performance of the particular day. When skaters skate better than they did before, they deserve higher marks, simple as that.

Meoima said:

Yeah, I would like Javi to win, or at least to get the silver because (sorry for being shallow he looks more manly . His SP I don't like much because of the tight tight tigh... way too tight costume. His LP suits him well, still not my favourite but easier to watch than Flappy Bird and Juliet The Narcissist.
Anyways, the replacement is quite alright, I just can't take the PCS inflation.

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Oh, now I get it. Fernandez deserves higher PCS than Machida because he is more manly and has a prettier costume. How about we look things which are actually related to skating like skating skills where Machida surpasses Fernandez easily?

pangtongfan said:

There is probably a better case for Fernandez deserving to win the event than Machida. Fernandez should have won the SP with atleast 98 points, while Hanyu probably deserved 90 tops. Fernandez' s LP, even with the mistake, was underscored compared to both Japanese men as well. Machida got a SP that tied Chan's all time PB which seems too much even for his great performance, and his PCS for his LP was also too high for a program (meaning the choreography, overall packaging, etc...) that isnt even that good.

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Fernandez chreo in the LP isn't that good, either. And Fernandez should have won the SP against Machida? Definitely not. :disapp:

David21 said:

Oh, now I get it. Fernandez deserves higher PCS than Machida because he is more manly and has a prettier costume. How about we look things which are actually related to skating like skating skills where Machida surpasses Fernandez easily?:

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When I said I would like Javi to win, I didn't mean that he deserved to win. You like some actors because of their looks, but doesn't mean that you think they deserve to win the Oscar. It's common sense and why don't you read my post again. Did I say Javi should have been placed 1st? I said I liked him to win, and the reason he was placed 3rd I could see it very well and have no debate about it, simple as that. I liked PChan to win at Sochi, but he lost and I totally understand the reason, no harsh comment about that.

I already stated the only thing that confuses me was how they scored the PCS.
Since when all the PCS scores which have been 80s average from 2012 has increased to 90s average this year? If I remember correctly, in 2012 we only have one skater with 90 PCS and that is PChan. Now we have the top 3 with 91-92 PCS. Lots of people don't like PChan, but they have to admit his skating skills are exceptional, better than every one in the men field. Can you believe the current Javi, Yuzuru and Machida all have the same skating skills as PChan? I don't think so. Yeah, P.Chan fell a lot, but even with his falls, his moves on the ice are much smoother than top 3 this year. Okay, these guys have improve A LOT but I don't think their skating skills have reach the level of PChan. If it were me, I would give them 85-88 PCS at most.

I don't mind the placement of worlds this year. I mind the PCS inflation. I don't understand how they value PCS these days.

Meoima said:

When I said I would like Javi to win, I didn't mean that he deserved to win. You like some actors because of their looks, but doesn't mean that you think they deserve to win the Oscar. It's common sense and why don't you read my post again. Did I say Javi should have been placed 1st? I said I liked him to win, and the reason he was placed 3rd I could see it very well and have no debate about it, simple as that.

I already stated the things that confuses me was how they scored the PCS.
Since when all the PCS scores which have been 80s average from 2012 has increased to 90s average this year? If I remember correctly, in 2012 we only have one skater with 90 PCS and that is PChan. Now we have the top 3 with 91-92 PCS. Lots of people don't like PChan, but they have to admit his skating skills are exceptional, better than every one in the men field. Can you believe the current Javi, Yuzuru and Machida all have the same skating skills as PChan? I don't think so. Yeah, P.Chan fell a lot, but even with his falls, his moves on the ice are much smoother than top 3 this year. Okay, these guys have improve A LOT but I don't think their skating skills have reach the level of PChan. If it were me, I would give them 85-88 PCS at most.

I don't mind the placement of worlds this year. I mind the PCS inflation. I don't understand how they value PCS these days.

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I partially agree with you about the PCS inflation. Another problem is that judges do only give one mark for all different components and do not differenciate betwen them.
As for Chan, he deserved those sky-high PCS he got for SS and TR, for the other components, epecially with his usual falls, not so much. Machida in his wonderful SP has better CH and IN than Chan had for most of his career but that's just my personal opinion.

David21 said:

I partially agree with you about the PCS inflation. Another problem is that judges do only give one mark for all different components and do not differenciate betwen them.
As for Chan, he deserved those sky-high PCS he got for SS and TR, for the other components, epecially with his usual falls, not so much. Machida in his wonderful SP has better CH and IN than Chan had for most of his career but that's just my personal opinion.

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It's true that Machida has a wonderful SP and he deserves it. I have no problem with his SP. The long program with the fire bird imitation, though, is not my favorite and I often call it flappy bird because the choreography of this LP doesn't work for me. The Juliet-narcissist program that Hanyu performs is not my taste as well (except the jumps?) So maybe that's why I can't get their PCS in long program? As for me, Javi's LP suits him well, both the costume and his joyful character. But then, it's the story of another day.

Anyways, how do they suppose to give PCS scores after all of this? I used to thought 90 PCS is the highest because there would be no way you reach the score 100 for PCS. Now lots of men get 90s, then what next?

If PChan comes back next season, and he improves his skating skills even more, better than these top 3; then how are they suppose to give him PCS? 100? No, I can't buy that.