Which skaters have correct jumping technique?

Meoima · Apr 6, 2014

Components said:
I think I may have misunderstood your question.

Yagudin's issues with jumping is the fact that he muscled a lot of his jumps, and because he was so strong he was able to hold onto landings that other skaters would have crumbled under.

I didn't say Yagudin's jumps were *terrible*. There were redeeming qualities to his jumping, height being one of them (especially on his triple axel). I said his mechanics weren't top notch. There were other men with better jumps skating in the same era that he skated in, even from the same coach.

Yagudin perhaps wasn't the most talented skater in the world, but he certainly was one of the hardest workers, and sometimes hard work DOES pay off.

Thank you very much. I have the same feeling when I watch Yagudin' jumps, too. His 3A is so high and solid but a little bit stiff. Compare to other top skaters, I think they have more flow when it comes to connect their jumps to other elements. Plushenko as example. PChan also has more flow with his jumps.
That's why I wonder how different these jumps would look when we watch live. Maybe the people who watch live could draw some better conclusions and experiences about the jumps and the techniques these skaters apply for themselves. I only guess so because I always watch them through video.

Chamazing · Apr 6, 2014

There is no correct jumps only fans says it's correct one.... you just need to buy the judge and they will tell you every jump is correct no matter what.... :biggrin:

evangeline · Apr 6, 2014

Ilia Kulik had very good jump technique, especially on the 3A.

Components · Apr 6, 2014

Chamazing said:
There is no correct jumps only fans says it's correct one.... you just need to buy the judge and they will tell you every jump is correct no matter what....

We're not discussing the correctness of the jump. Yagudin's jumps are "correct."

We're discussing the quality and efficiency of the mechanics employed to create those jumps.

Components · Apr 6, 2014

evangeline said:
Ilia Kulik had very good jump technique, especially on the 3A.

Indeed, and a lot of his jump landings were deceptively soft.

evangeline · Apr 6, 2014

Beautiful air position too, with great height, effortless throughout....and often with some very difficult entrances. If Kulik was competing today, he'd deservedly clean up on jump GOEs.

I remember watching a competition a long time ago when Kulik was competing, and Brian Boitano was gushing about how Kulik "jumps like a god."

fruitbasket · Apr 6, 2014

Sam-Skwantch said:
Yuna had the best jump technique. Not because of height but because of her landings and flow out. I still think height is about the least important 'bullet'to satisfy. If you can't flow right back into the music and weave your jumps into your artistry than I loose interest very quickly and to be frank don't see the point. I mean the jumps have to be performed well but I don't lik it when they disrupt the program via stalking or worse landing at a near crawl. Other than Mao's 3a I wouldn't try to jump like her. I don't even think I'd want to jump like Yulia. She spins so hard it seems quite painful but then again I'd rather eat scissors than attempt any of her spins.. I like Tuks jumps but I think she is a prime example of a jumper overly focused on height and maybe jumps too high for her frame and now just falls a lot. Jumping smaller and more controlled sometimes is smarter. Yulia steals +2's sometimes for her jumps based on multiple other bullets used to award GOE. It's like performing a level 3 StSeq for higher GOE than failing to deliver a level 4.

agree with you....yuna has the text book jump technique... height, distance of landing, flow and edge.....

karne · Apr 6, 2014

evangeline said:
Ilia Kulik had very good jump technique, especially on the 3A.

Even today, his landings are still like butter, and he's still doing quite a few triples (though not the Axel anymore, but I did hear he still does it in practice).

Meoima · Apr 6, 2014

evangeline said:
Beautiful air position too, with great height, effortless throughout....and often with some very difficult entrances. If Kulik was competing today, he'd deservedly clean up on jump GOEs.

I remember watching a competition a long time ago when Kulik was competing, and Brian Boitano was gushing about how Kulik "jumps like a god."

I guess he made a deal with the devil for that jumping techniques of a god. In exchange the devil took away his sense of beauty. Thus we have the costumes he chose to wear in competitions.

Anyways, just kidding. Don't take my effort for comic value seriously. :laugh:

Blades of Passion · Apr 6, 2014

Components said:
What I'm referring to is this: http://i57.tinypic.com/2rcopp2.jpg

Versus this: http://i58.tinypic.com/xelzb7.png

You can see that Yagudin throws his shoulders around hard into the jump, to the point that even though Evan is further along into the jump than Alexei, Alexie's upper body is way further across. Because Evan's technique on that jump is superior to Yagudin's, he was able to generate much more height between backwards to forwards (take-off to 'h' which is where most men will snap the jump down and accelerate their rotation) without overpowering the take-off. This is one example where better technique creates a bigger jump, and not necessarily more strength.

What on Earth.....most Lysacek's jumps are MUCH smaller than Yagudin's. His Salchow barely left the ice. His Loop wasn't much higher. His Triple Axel was never great. He didn't get particularly great height in any of his other jumps either. Your example is completely off base because Yagudin's technique was such that he completed the rotation WAY off the ice. Getting more height in the phase of the jump you've linked means nothing.

If you're saying that Lysacek's technique is more efficient in creating a smaller jump, yes that would be correct. Such a thing completely goes against the basis of a 'jump' to begin with, though. Jumping is not about who can do the most efficient small or mid-sized jump. It's about projectile propulsion and then control of it.

Components · Apr 6, 2014

Lysacek's Triple Lutz is bigger than Yagudin's Lutz. It's rigiht there in the videos. What are you talking about?

There is no muscling, the air position is in another (better) realm compared to Yagudin's, the landing is much better.

Bigger jumps do not automatically make the jump better.

Maybe I should have used Plushenko's jumps instead, which are equally better than Yagudin's? Should I?

moviechick · Apr 6, 2014

Meoima said:
Thank you very much. I have the same feeling when I watch Yagudin' jumps, too. His 3A is so high and solid but a little bit stiff. Compare to other top skaters, I think they have more flow when it comes to connect their jumps to other elements. Plushenko as example. PChan also has more flow with his jumps.
That's why I wonder how different these jumps would look when we watch live. Maybe the people who watch live could draw some better conclusions and experiences about the jumps and the techniques these skaters apply for themselves. I only guess so because I always watch them through video.

I notice with Yagudin that his arms do not get very close to his body when he's in the air and his landing positions are not always the best, but he somehow manages to not fall on some really iffy jumps. I think he landed a quad on the inside edge once and still pulled it off.

Kuan · Apr 6, 2014

CarneAsada said:
3A Mao, as she's the only one currently doing it. Harding/Ito had bigger ones but Harding's was always funky in the air. As Mao has landed the 3A internationally for 9 seasons now, I put her above Harding.

Yuna Kim's solo 3T

I like this one even better. 3T

Here she is training jumps as a kid :eek:

: Yunas jumping coach back then worked with So Youn Park as well some time ago. This men namend Jong-Hyeon Ryu seems to be an awsome jumping coach. :thumbsup:

Blades of Passion · Apr 6, 2014

Components said:
Lysacek's Triple Lutz is bigger than Yagudin's Lutz.

No it isn't. Nor is the rotation fully completed so high off the ice like Yagudin's.

zamboni step · Apr 6, 2014

Components said:
Lysacek's Triple Lutz is bigger than Yagudin's Lutz. It's rigiht there in the videos. What are you talking about?

With all due respect, your comments on Asadas axel technique combined with this seems to show you aren't totally familiar with jump mechanics. In your pictures Lysacek is almost at the peak of his jump, and Yagudin is only at the beginning of his jump, kind of a biased comparison.

plushyfan · Apr 6, 2014

Plushenko has, of course..if it was not perfect technique,he wouldn't be able to re-learn the jumps so soon after the injuries.

Components · Apr 6, 2014

zamboni step said:
With all due respect, your comments on Asadas axel technique combined with this seems to show you aren't totally familiar with jump mechanics. In your pictures Lysacek is almost at the peak of his jump, and Yagudin is only at the beginning of his jump, kind of a biased comparison.

The fact that you don't understand why I posted those screen caps and the point of those screen caps pretty much proves that you're being willfully ignorant and not even reading what others are posting before commenting on it. Also, I'm not here to post what's generally accepted or have people rally around my opinion in agreement. I don't care about that.

I am but a pseudonym posting on an internet forum with other pseudonymous fellows

Components · Apr 6, 2014

Blades of Passion said:
No it isn't. Nor is the rotation fully completed so high off the ice like Yagudin's.

Yes, it is, and the skaters rotate completely different, so that doesn't surprise me. Yagudin is muscling the jump across the take-off, and rotates pretty much right off the ice.

Lysacek does not muscle through the take-off, he takes the jump up and then rotates, the way *most* male skaters do a Lutz jump. His air position is textbook and his jumping posture (through the take-off) is massively better than Yagudin's. He also almost always landed his jumps better than Yagudin did. Almost all of them open up the left side into the take off. But most people do not muscle the jump all the way across like Yagudin.

The differences are pretty clear. Evan has a clear delay between the take-off/Lift and rotation in the jump.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-M9U9o2NLA

So it doesn't surprise me that the jump rotation is completed further above the ice (he starts rotating much sooner than Lysacek does) for Yagudin, but his jump is not bigger than Evan's, and especially nor is it technically better.

Very few people (really mean: practically no one) would look at both jumps and conclude that Yagudin's is technically better.

anyanka · Apr 7, 2014

Midori Ito.

The end.

Sam-Skwantch · Apr 7, 2014

Which skaters have correct jumping technique?

Meoima

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Chamazing

evangeline

Components

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Components

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evangeline

fruitbasket

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode

Meoima

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Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be

Components

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moviechick

Kuan

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be

zamboni step

plushyfan

Components

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Components

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anyanka

Sam-Skwantch

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