State of US Ladies in skating III: 2014-15 Season | Page 12 | Golden Skate

State of US Ladies in skating III: 2014-15 Season

Layfan

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Nov 5, 2009
I agree with Mrs. P, though I can't find her original post. I didn't think Gracie's program was anything to panic about. It still seems like she can hit the tough jumps. Just seems like it's a matter of practice and practice. I suppose it's true that Frank isn't the most original packager - he's been around for so long - but he is good at hammering in consistency, as much as he can. And Gracie has always been a bit in need of that. I don't think she performed super well to the music but that's never been her strength. Rooting for her to improve on that the more she performs this season. The packaging of her would bother me more if I ever had a sense that Gracie ever had a personal style but I don't think she's developed that yet. So I'll let her be the princess for a while if that floats her boat.

I wouldn't have noticed her smaller jumps if other more knowledgeable posters hadn't pointed them out. I guess I could see that especially compared to how huge they were last year. But I'm hoping she just needs more stamina.
 

jcmerman

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Dec 10, 2011
Let me just put it this way. I cannot wait until someone comes and dethrones Gracie Gold. I am so sick of all the hype about this girl! Why they decided to back this girl up, is beyond me! Can't jump anymore. She skates like here skates are doing the skating for her. The packaging, the programs, the music, the styling. It's all wrong! Please, oh please can someone come and take her crown away
 

Amei

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Nov 11, 2013
Liza and Alena, and both had a lot to prove---they HAD to be well prepared for this competition.

Agree, unlike Gracie - whose spot on the 4CC/World's team is pretty secure, Alena and Liza are facing an uphill battle in Russia to make it on the Euro/World's team; so they have to come out swinging right out of the gate - Grace can use Nebelhorn as a warm-up skate.
 

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”
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I think one of the best American skaters in terms of presentation and overall enjoyable choreography is Mariah Bell. I really wish there was someone who could bring up her technical prowess. If she had solid jumps I truely believe her skating skills could make her one of the most interesting and well liked skaters. I wish all of her skates could be this good. :clap:

I love this program: http://youtu.be/nUC6C2vkK4o
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
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Dec 27, 2009
I think one of the best American skaters in terms of presentation and overall enjoyable choreography is Mariah Bell. I really wish there was someone who could bring up her technical prowess. If she had solid jumps I truely believe her skating skills could make her one of the most interesting and well liked skaters. I wish all of her skates could be this good. :clap:

I love this program: http://youtu.be/nUC6C2vkK4o

Mariah Bell is actually one of my fave U.S. Ladies (considering I am not extremely enthusiastic about U.S. ladies in general) along with Hannah Miller for the reason you mentioned.

FWIW, Mariah's being coached by Kori Ade and it does sound like they're working on upping the content. I think Nebelhorn is the first time she attempted the 2A-3T. And per this article, they have worked on 3T-3T and 3F-3T as well.

And speaking of Team Kori, here's a cute photo for some levity in this thread: http://instagram.com/p/tgxACBzXFl/?modal=true

ETA: And here's another sweet photo: http://instagram.com/p/tcwACdzXAp/?modal=true

ETA 2: Speaking of Hannah Miller. I am keeping my eye for her. As it stands, she has the highest TES in the FS among all the U.S. ladies. I admire the fact she's upping the ante on her technical content.
 
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Krunchii

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Mar 27, 2014
I think one of the best American skaters in terms of presentation and overall enjoyable choreography is Mariah Bell. I really wish there was someone who could bring up her technical prowess. If she had solid jumps I truely believe her skating skills could make her one of the most interesting and well liked skaters. I wish all of her skates could be this good. :clap:

I love this program: http://youtu.be/nUC6C2vkK4o
I found her SP at Nebelhorn very enjoyable and suitable for her, I still can't believe a judge gave her 0.25 in INT, I hope it's a mistake but I thought she was a bit underscored there
 

kwanatic

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May 19, 2011
Anyway, I'm not panicking re Gracie myself - I'm sure she'll do a competent job with her program. And if people find "competent" satisfactory enough, then, indeed there is nothing to be overly concerned about. And if I thought "competent" was the best Gracie could do - and some skaters can't do better than that, and that is perfectly fine - I'd say nothing about it either. I just believe Gracie can do better than that - a whole lot better. And I think there is potential in Gracie that is going untapped - and I think that is a real pity. That is all. (shrug)

This. I'm not panicked about Gracie's jumps either, though I do think they've gotten progressively worse over the past few months but...whatever....I just feel that she has this amazing talent that is being suppressed/squandered in the pursuit of a style and image that do nothing for her. She would stand out so much more if she were packaged in a way that highlighted her speed, power and explosiveness. Instead she's given music that she fails to connect to and choreography that she looks okay doing but clearly would be better suited for a different type of skater.

The image and style Frank has given her isn't a natural fit. It works...but it comes off looking forced, pageant-like, manufactured and just off. There's something just off about Gracie and I think that wouldn't be the case if she were given something that is more suited to her natural talent. I don't doubt that she will be successful with the programs she has...but there's nothing remarkable about Gracie that grabs me anymore. I've never been a fan of her skating but her speed and huge jumps at least made her somewhat interesting to watch. Now there's not even that. I find her boring now. She bores me. Given the potential she had to be more than just a softy princessy skater, I find that terribly sad and disappointing.
 

surimi

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Nov 12, 2013
re. Gracie, I just don't want to see her get stereotyped as someone who only skates to classics, musicals and jazz. I hope her music choices and outfits get more out-of-the-box in the future, because she has the talent. I think she'd perform well to skateable popmusic. Different makeup + loose hair + a dark costume + a program to Cranberries' 'Zombie'... or something. Anything to step out of her current packaging.

to me she's just a bit "gangly" and awkward to watch. ..she skates more like a junior in some areas and her 2. mark reflects that.

I feel exactly the same about Polina, starlight. You're not alone. Maybe my impression will change as she matures and grows artistically, but the above is exactly how I felt about her the last season.
 

jcmerman

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Dec 10, 2011
I think one of the best American skaters in terms of presentation and overall enjoyable choreography is Mariah Bell. I really wish there was someone who could bring up her technical prowess. If she had solid jumps I truely believe her skating skills could make her one of the most interesting and well liked skaters. I wish all of her skates could be this good. :clap:

I love this program: http://youtu.be/nUC6C2vkK4o

I totally agree with you! this is one to watch for sure! Love both of her programs, but the short has really something special about it!
 

yyyskate

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Aug 1, 2013
Mariah and Hannah are also 2 of my favorite senior US lady skaters in terms musicality, interpretation and skating skills. They are unmatched among current US ladies. However, they have some tech problems, their jumps lacks spring and flow, so I wouldn't hold my expectations too high for now, I wish they can improve and indeed they have improved this season, and just enjoy their performance for as long as I can.
Jump quality rarely relates to skating styles, you could jump big and long but also dance to extremely delicate program such as this little program here from Yuna http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nweE-DCcLtw.
Gracie's jump landing seems lack of flow now, I guess it maybe a trade off for consistency, or just simply she is not at her top form. has nothing to do with style or packaging. Gracie is never a good dancer to begin with. which means that no matter what style, she will not be amazing at it immediately(perhaps better at some, such as her all that jazz ex program), she will need to work on improving artistry, which she has done for her "let it go" program over the summer. I think Gracie has tried a couple of different styles sofar but never stereotyped, she is still exploring and absolutely improved. And if lyrical program is what she or her team wanna do for now. let her do it.
haters is always gonna exaggerating towards negativity..., someone even thought Yuna's les Mis is bland and concluded that "Yuna is not into it" (shake my head). so words like "boring","terrible" etc. are what you can expected from them... if cannot even appreciate Yuna's Les Mis, will they have the patience to appreciate the subtle improvement Gracie has achieved in her program.
 

drivingmissdaisy

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Feb 17, 2010
The image and style Frank has given her isn't a natural fit. It works...but it comes off looking forced, pageant-like, manufactured and just off. There's something just off about Gracie and I think that wouldn't be the case if she were given something that is more suited to her natural talent. I don't doubt that she will be successful with the programs she has...but there's nothing remarkable about Gracie that grabs me anymore. I've never been a fan of her skating but her speed and huge jumps at least made her somewhat interesting to watch. Now there's not even that. I find her boring now. She bores me. Given the potential she had to be more than just a softy princessy skater, I find that terribly sad and disappointing.

I'm bored with her too. I also think she has the wrong type of programs. However, it is entirely possible that she just isn't good at interpreting any type of music and that these choices are at least safe. I know some people liked her initial SP last year but I thought it was even worse than her princessy programs. Power skaters like Irina and Midori were able to skate softer programs effectively; two of my favorite Irina programs were Don Quixote and Appasionata.
 

Alchamei

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Sep 14, 2014
I don't want to sound pessimistic, but I don't see that wow factor in any of the American ladies. This can be changed, but I have a feeling it will be the same that is for eight years... Since 2006, there wasn't any woman with ,,it'', someone who could take your breath. Gracie seems too boring to me. Polina has a potentional but she has to improve her artistry and also some jumps issues (but of course she's a good jumper) and she may end up like Mirai. I like Mirai, but I'm not sure what she can deliver after those hard four years. And I don't think Ashley is gonna dramaticaly improve. I don't think any of them is gonna beat Russian ladies. It's like all the skaters I really liked retired and I don't know who will capture my heart again.
 

apgold

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Jan 10, 2014
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Mariah and Hannah are also 2 of my favorite senior US lady skaters in terms musicality, interpretation and skating skills. They are unmatched among current US ladies. However, they have some tech problems, their jumps lacks spring and flow, so I wouldn't hold my expectations too high for now, I wish they can improve and indeed they have improved this season, and just enjoy their performance for as long as I can.

I agree, I was impressed by both in their latest outings - Hannah is doing a triple/triple and she's got the goods, IMO. I like Mariah's LP since I am a sucker for "Titanic's" soundtrack, and as cheesy as it may sound, her "heart of the ocean" costume of navy blue with sparkles is very nice. She skated to it last season when she was a Junior but added another minute or so to it when she turned Senior. Mariah has grace and beautiful lines and she just needs to up her tech content a bit and her speed.

As for the top ladies, we haven't seen Ashley's new programs yet so I'll reserve judgement until I see them. I think Mirai can still bring it if she wants to. I agree with what has been said about Polina but she's still only 16. Not a fan of Gracie's current Princess incarnation, so until she can bring some personality into her skating, she bores me.

In general, I have to say I find the Russians to be more dynamic and interesting than the US ladies - I love Alena and Elena's personalities on the ice.
 

Alchamei

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Sep 14, 2014
Agreed.
We've gone two whole quads w/o a US woman on a world podium. If that's going to change this quad, we need some killers to emerge. As of now, I don't see any. The US has talent but we need talent and killer instinct...someone who won't shy away when the opportunity to win is there, but will run full-tilt toward it, knocking everyone out of their way. To me, neither Gracie nor Ashley are that kind of competitor.

There is some talent coming up in the US; not a ton of talent, but it's enough.

I totaly agree with it. I just can't find anyone with that instinck. Not only in the US, but in every country. There are some skaters who might have it but they need to show it. I guess basicaly all my faves retired and there is no ,,legend'' left, so I think I may be disappointed with the ladies on general.
 

yyyskate

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Aug 1, 2013
sometimes, the choice of music is very important, Russian lady's music choice is usually very easy to the ear. either dynamic, interesting or rhythmic, beautiful melody.
Gracie's song choice is also not that exciting at first view. even without watching their performance, I will be energized by Liza's music choice alone(plus a very beautiful melody in the middle) . Upon, second view and more, I fount that actually that song is very beautiful and has lots of nuances in it.
There will always be some people who dare to choose something outside the box, and some people got to challenge those obscure/classic/difficult piece.
I dont think Gracie's music choice should be stereotyped into pretty princess type. I think her music for her LP last year and this year is very different, if you just only listen to the music, but not follow the so-call pretty princess label.
 

shine

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Jul 27, 2003
Mariah and Hannah are also 2 of my favorite senior US lady skaters in terms musicality, interpretation and skating skills.
IMO, no one in the US beats Polina in terms of musicality. Her ability to feel the nuances in the music is incredible. There are all these great skaters who have great presentation, but then there's Polina, the dancer. It just takes some more maturing and projection for her interpretive ability to really shine through. She'll become absolutely stunning when the time comes.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
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Dec 27, 2009
IMO, no one in the US beats Polina in terms of musicality.

YMMV, of course. :)

I like Polina, but I have to be honest and state her FS bored me to tears in the arena. It could have been the music,but really didn't make it captivating. Her SP was good though!

I"m sure, as you point out, that may change for me as she's able to highlight those nuances, but for now, I don't quite feel her yet. Again, that has nothing to do with technical ability or how one scores, but just my personal take.

When I think about the performances that caught my attention (regardless of technical ability) sitting in the arena: Both of Hannah's programs, Samantha's Carmen FS and Mariah's SP. I like Ashley's SP, but it didn't catch my attention like her programs from 2012-2013.

So therefore I would be a terrible judge, LOL. This also explains my lessening interest in Ladies (not just US, but in general).
 
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Ophelia

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Dec 6, 2013
Agreed.

I think it's obvious that Gracie and Ashley are ahead of the pack (nationally)...but they aren't so far out in front that they are untouchable or can afford to slack off. Both have their strengths but both have weaknesses as well. I think they are a solid 1-2 punch for the the US women right now, but I don't think that their spots are etched in stone. We've gone two whole quads w/o a US woman on a world podium. If that's going to change this quad, we need some killers to emerge. As of now, I don't see any. The US has talent but we need talent and killer instinct...someone who won't shy away when the opportunity to win is there, but will run full-tilt toward it, knocking everyone out of their way. To me, neither Gracie nor Ashley are that kind of competitor.

What do you define as killer instinct? I feel like Ashley has way more competitive fire than Gracie Gold, as evidenced by her Sochi and Worlds performances. With Ashley, I feel that its more of the technical skills that are lacking rather than the killer instinct.
 

R.D.

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Jul 26, 2003
Actually, I have to agree that Wagner lacks the "killer instinct" as well.

She does best when coming from behind, as she did late last season, but when ahead she goes straight into defense mode. No good
 

drivingmissdaisy

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Feb 17, 2010
Actually, I have to agree that Wagner lacks the "killer instinct" as well.

She does best when coming from behind, as she did late last season, but when ahead she goes straight into defense mode. No good

I disagree to an extent. A few seasons ago she was doing her 6 triple LPs rather easily. It's putting in the 3/3 that has taken her out of her comfort zone, and the rest of her program tends to suffer.
 
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