State of US Ladies in skating III: 2014-15 Season | Page 8 | Golden Skate

State of US Ladies in skating III: 2014-15 Season

kwanatic

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Record Breaker
Joined
May 19, 2011
What the Russian ladies have to go through makes Regionals and Sectionals in the US look like a tea party.

Yep. Their level of competition (on every level) is so far beyond what we have in the US. That's why those Russian girls are so scary. They have to fight like hell to get an international assignment of any kind and they know if they slip up there are at least three other people waiting to take their spot.

Too soon to know now, though.

We do need fearlessness in our skaters but that alone won't cut it these days. Consistent, world-class talent is what it'll take and the US has lacked that for how long now...close to a decade?

Agreed. She's got pressure right now b/c she skated decently in Sochi and Saitama. I'm sure she knows, being the US silver medalist, that eyes are on her this year. In addition to that she's coming into her first senior season...so there is some pressure there but not nearly the amount of pressure needed to really test her. I hope she'll be able to handle it.

ITA about needing consistency and talent. We've had a handful of skaters who have had flashes of brilliance (Mirai, Alissa, Ashley, Gracie) but then revert back to mediocrity...it's so frustrating!! :bang: I thought Ashley might be that person and for a while she was...but she couldn't seem to keep it going. She was awesome on the GP but at the GPF, nationals and worlds (the big events) that fight and consistency would go AWOL. *sigh* It really is a sucky situation for the US. I'm glad I like all of the Russian girls otherwise I'd probably stop watching skating this quad. :sarcasm:

Now raising a glass to the killer instinct!

I'll drink to that! :biggrin:
 

LRK

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
Amen and right on! :laugh::biggrin:

I also think that chuckm and sam-skwantch made very good points re: competition & centralization. My sense is that the Russians are their own toughest competitors. They must be very much aware of each other's strengths and weaknesses and know they can't afford to slack off -- if they do, someone will be ready and waiting to step right up. There's always someone around to push them, kind of like Davis/White and Virtue/Moir as training partners. Compared to that, the Americans are training in a vacuum, to some extent. If you don't have anyone to goose you occasionally, it's all too easy to start coasting.

Re: being scared to succeed, I find myself wondering whether the US women are still getting some kind of message (who knows from where) that being competitive and having the ability to tap into a killer instinct is "unladylike." I was raised with "ladylike" standards of behavior and genuinely value them but dammit, as long as you're not whacking someone's knee (god forbid!) or cheating or otherwise doing something nasty to undermine your competitors, there comes a time when being a lady is a lot less important than that balls-to-the-wall attitude.

Just speculating here & sorry for ranting a bit -- I've learned the hard way that sometimes the whole ladylike thing is vastly overrated. Now raising a glass to the killer instinct!

Well, I thought it was very symptomatic what happened after Gracie clenched her fists in triumph after her Olympic team LP - she was told off by Frank Carroll, and since he shared his view with the world, you can almost say that she was in effect scolded in public. I didn't like that one bit.

And I say that as one who considers herself very much a lady. :)
 

yyyskate

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 1, 2013
nothing about lady-like, US has a very broad range of skaters, killer - instinct as well as princessy. When compete everybody try their best. How they behave after final music note have nothing to do with how they skate during the program. They could behave whatever they want to, were told to, even if nobody pushes them at the local rink, they will have to face international competition, and they will grow just wait and see. If Gracie/Frank choose the lady-like packaging, do as they wish, as long as Gracie give it all and become more consistent and better, She will be the killer.
 

NYscorp6

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Country
United-States
Well, I thought it was very symptomatic what happened after Gracie clenched her fists in triumph after her Olympic team LP - she was told off by Frank Carroll, and since he shared his view with the world, you can almost say that she was in effect scolded in public. I didn't like that one bit.

And I say that as one who considers herself very much a lady. :)

That is so typical of Frank, it was one of the reasons I hoped that Grace didn't go to him for coaching. He comes across as being such a nasty person, it is hard to wish him success. I do like Grace though, so I have to suck it up.
 

fairly4

Medalist
Joined
Oct 28, 2007
i disagree with everyone assistment of the u.s. ladies. while i am not o member of figure skating, just a out of way fan who knows nothing but what she sees on tv and how they skate when she watches on tv, youtube etc, and they has to read on sights like this you demeaning, and damaging assesments of the u.s. ladies while building up the other countries ladies because that is your preference.
it is rude.

this is mine. the russian ladies are better not because of system is because 1) they go all out each and everytime they skated whether it works out or not.
the u.s ladies like mirai, and alissa, rachel just skate or use injury however valid for them not putting forth their best effort.
they think they can just skate,
yes, gracie is going to have pressure on her as it skater , she did at olympics did fine. worlds not so great well neither did adelina in 2013 worlds did fine at olympics neither did yuna when she was first it girl in 2007 3rd at worlds good.
the u.s ladies however will have to skate their best each and everytime. not just skate, put forth best effort no matter whether gets high scores, lands or not.

the mental has to be just we can and do it. not miria i was in 1st and can't do it.
put away the past, yes we can and show them what they can do not talke, just do.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
I agree that the Russian superiority (at the moment) isn't because of the centralized schools, although I am sure it does help some to for coaches to be able to see what is working for other skaters and help their pupils replicate that success. The Russians, as fairly4 says, go out and attack their programs. Comparing Adelina to someone like Ashley is a perfect example. Adelina made a lot of bad errors for most of the last two years, so bad that most people here thought she should pull the 3F from her programs. However, she continued to challenge herself and worked hard to put the difficult elements in her competitive programs and skated much stronger by Russian nationals, Euros, and Olympics. Until this year, Ashley never put in her most difficult elements until the end of the season and when she tried to do them with the pressure of performing in a big event, she didn't have success with the elements. Watching skaters like Adelina and Julia, you never feel like they are holding back, whereas the same cannot be said for skaters like Ashley and Mirai.
 

fairly4

Medalist
Joined
Oct 28, 2007
also while it is nice to see the SUMMER SKates by the U.s ladies, summer competitions does not make the skater during the season.
it tells me how much they are ready for it and how much needs to be done by the skaters/teams.
while polina is ready and just has to work on fine tunning her programs.
the others skaters needs to me more ready and work on their program by adding more, doing more jumps.

however this is totally lacking why.
we only see the U.s ladies skaters, not the skaters from Russia, Japan, germany , italy to see how well they are ready during the summer . only ones posted almost all scores are the u.s ladies, mens, pairs, dance.
hardly any from other countries why, they don't skate summer competitions in u.s. and ones do are posted and arent ready either for competition.

so unless we see all and do mean all of the top notch ladies skate in summer competition,s cores , and readiness this is one sides bias, unfair and demeaning to all u.s skaters .
we need to see all skaters from all countries in their summer competition to make a fair assesment of how ready they are for season and not go by shows, since they skate different under show light by that i mean more free less jumps, less hard jumps and more forgivesness by fans, skating base since they are here to see a show not a competition.
so mental capability is different --not under gun so to speak. even in summper competitions most skaters just want to see how well they are scored for certain things not the whole program unless totally ready.
 

skatedreamer

Medalist
Joined
Feb 18, 2014
Country
United-States
Well, I thought it was very symptomatic what happened after Gracie clenched her fists in triumph after her Olympic team LP - she was told off by Frank Carroll, and since he shared his view with the world, you can almost say that she was in effect scolded in public. I didn't like that one bit.

And I say that as one who considers herself very much a lady. :)

I didn't know anything about that. If a clenched fist is all it takes to offend Frank's standards of decorum -- sheesh!
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
That is so typical of Frank, it was one of the reasons I hoped that Grace didn't go to him for coaching. He comes across as being such a nasty person, it is hard to wish him success. I do like Grace though, so I have to suck it up.

Wow, you have no idea...I've watched Frank coach and I would NEVER describe him as nasty. Professional...yes. Nasty...no. He is one of the most positive teaching coaches I've ever witnessed. The thing I appreciate the most is his absolute glass-full approach to a problem. He's got a very subdued public persona. He could just be a reserved person.
 

NYscorp6

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Country
United-States
Wow, you have no idea...I've watched Frank coach and I would NEVER describe him as nasty. Professional...yes. Nasty...no. He is one of the most positive teaching coaches I've ever witnessed. The thing I appreciate the most is his absolute glass-full approach to a problem. He's got a very subdued public persona. He could just be a reserved person.

I'm actually glad to hear that, thanks for your correction. Impressions aren't always accurate, especially mine I will admit. I'll try to give the man the benefit of the doubt more often.
 

humbaba

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 12, 2004
IIRC, Carroll objected to the fist pump because he felt it broke the mood of the program. Apparently, he believes the performance begins the moment the skater steps on the ice and doesn't end until he or she steps off it.
 

Sandpiper

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 16, 2014
IIRC, Carroll objected to the fist pump because he felt it broke the mood of the program. Apparently, he believes the performance begins the moment the skater steps on the ice and doesn't end until he or she steps off it.
So if Gracie were skating to a warrior program, the fist pump would be okay? :)
 

YLFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Apr 3, 2014
Well hes known for saying stupid things.

“I do think she’s wonderful, but she’s a little girl,” said Frank Carroll, who coaches Gold. “Should we call it the little girl Olympics or is it the Olympic ladies’ champion?”
 

Selene

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 7, 2012
Well, if Gracie and Ashley are the head of the pack, they better look in the rear view mirror.

I believe that Polina will be the uncontested US #1 by the end of the season. She is the best jumper in the US, period. She is the only girl who has the difficulty and consistency to compete with the Russian girls.

The USFSA is wasting their time promoting Ashley and Gracie, two girls who have proven they cannot make the podium at major events like Worlds. Neither skater can compete with Polina or the Russian ladies technically. Ashley has no 3-3 and routinely URs and two-foots her jumps. And Gracie's jumps are sinking faster than the Titanic. Her jumps looked awful at the Glacier Falls competition - small, hard landings, poor axel technique. I noticed she isn't doing the US Int'l Classic this year. Probably a good idea, as she looked nowhere near ready to compete and probably would have been badly beaten by Polina.
 

FSGMT

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 10, 2012
IIRC, Carroll objected to the fist pump because he felt it broke the mood of the program. Apparently, he believes the performance begins the moment the skater steps on the ice and doesn't end until he or she steps off it.
That's quite" old style skating" but I do agree with him completely! :clap:
 

Icey

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
Carroll must have gone into shock, then, at what the Olympic gold medalist did during her program at the Olympics. Maybe I am wrong, but I seem to remember Michelle, at least once, doing what Gracie did (or something very similar), that disturbed Carroll. Maybe it happened after she had left Carroll, though.
 
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