What's next for Patrick Chan? | Page 14 | Golden Skate

What's next for Patrick Chan?

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
I have a feeling he is going through a hard time right now; the let down of the olympics, literally losing the gold and being so close and arguably, I know many disagree, not getting credit for his skating skills comparatively to others. He also may be thinking of his future and making a living skating is not easy. I do hope he returns. Many including myself think his downfall was going with Johnson - I am not sure why he woud do such a thing. Young and stupid? Whatever the reason he needed a technical coach. I think that is what really cost him the gold. Someone who knew how to be competitive and work on the jumps and conditioning especially the axel (that means NOT Joanne Macleod obviously). His stubbornness was costly I think. Johnson isn't even good or expeienced at doing competitive eedge things.
 

evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
He's one of my favourites too however unfortunately I think his focus on artistry has compromised his jumps. And when you don't land quads reliably the judges start relegating you to a lower tier, hence why his PCS would be sub-90 if he missed his quad. I think 2011-2012 was an up and down season and multiple losses to Chan and an inconsistent quad widened the PCS gap betwen them.

Takahashi's "focus on artistry" has nothing to do with his deteriorating jumps, it was injuries. Let's face it--his jumps were never quite the same as they were after he tore his ACL. Aside from the torn ACL thing (which probably makes him more susceptible to injury on that knee), Takahashi's age definitely makes him more prone to injuries....this season alone, he's incurred multiple injuries, including injuries to his right leg before the GPF, and a knee injury before Worlds. All those injuries not only cut into training time, but add up and affect the quality of his jumps.
 

Ryan O

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 5, 2004
Country
Canada
I remember Jamie Sale totally lost her 2axel for a season, and then practically lost her 3toe for another (although now thankfully had her 2axel fully back), but got both back for the all important Olympic season.

After missing all her jumps in the LP at 2000 Worlds, she began to work with a sports psychologist to also help her deal with the mental hangups she was having with her jumps and to deal with the pressure of the competitive situation. Then in the following season Sale & Pelletier made the controversial decision to leave Richard Gauthier in Montreal and move to Alberta where they felt Jamie would feel better back in her home province and comfort zone. Perhaps some of these decisions had an effect, because by the time of the 2002 Olympics she was able to land all of her jumps.
 

tung

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 26, 2013
To Canadian Skater Guy

Thank you very much, Canadian Skater Guy, for expressing interest and respect for Patrick Chan. I, as another Canadian, but living overseas, cannot but remind you and other Patrick fans, that the most important item in all these discussions, whether the talent will continue skating or not, is not brought up at all. FINANCIAL ECONOMICS will be the decisive factor to whether the talent will compete or not. The last year has been tough, tougher than the former years, as the cost of maintaining coaching staff and technical input was always expensive. To the point that an expert skating coach was discarded, in return for a non-skating modern dance coach.
So, if Patrick is to improve on his axel triples, or quads?! (There cannot be an axel quad, since an axell is one and half revolution already, two turns means a triple, and another axel revolution would mean 4 and a half revolution, right?) an expert skating coach has to be hired. And that is a big stumbling block, to Patrick Chan's pocket book and his parents', too.

So, if anyone is interested and want to see the man compete, with necessary improvement, to make it a credible fight, with the up and rising young Japanese stars and others, a fund rasing or financial income method has to be introduced to the Chan clan, and not only fund raising dinners, either, if that has anymore attraction to the Chinese community and Canadian society in general (laugh!). I have a thought, but I will introduce to the interested parties and hopefully, that will solve the ultimate financial problem for Patrick to continue skating, mental willingness beside. Any ideas, anyone?
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
I don't think it would be a financial issue (after all, there are skaters considerably less prolific than Chan in Canada) rather than a motivation issue. He's proved himself quite admirably, and I don't think just because he doesn't show up at Worlds and skips a season or two, that should be held against him. After all, he did compete and medal in the 5 World Championships prior to that. Like Kim, he could probably skip a season and come back and even be marginally competitive since most skaters will not be able to come close to his level of skating no matter how hard they try. It's whether to continue to get golds that he's already won over and over, just for the heck of it, or pursue things outside of skating (like school), and that's his decision. If anything, by taking time to study, he's setting himself up better for life after skating, and why not, after you've won almost everything there is to win anyways.
 

Icey

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
You assume, and maybe the assumption will prove to be true, but it seems unlikely his skill level will remain in tact after a year away from competing and certainly over the next four years. Actually, we even saw it this year with the deterioration of his 3 ax. Even though winning an osm is great, I wonder how his confidence has been affected.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
You assume, and maybe the assumption will prove to be true, but it seems unlikely his skill level will remain in tact after a year away from competing and certainly over the next four years. Actually, we even saw it this year with the deterioration of his 3 ax. Even though winning an osm is great, I wonder how his confidence has been affected.

Actually his axel this year was more consistent than last season, at least leading up to the Olympics where it let him down. He was 5/8 pre-Olympics on triple axels, which is more than his past seasons and more than quite a few other elite skaters. His technique is relatively poor on his axel and he muscles it around, but it's made up by the fact that he's vastly more consistent on his quads. As skaters like Lambiel have shown, you don't need a solid axel to be competitive if you've got the quads. By his skill level being intact, I'm referring to his quality of skating, which will likely be maintained over the next 4 years so if he ever did decide to return, he would still have the foundation to be somewhat competitive (although who knows what the next 4 years will bring).
 

tung

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 26, 2013
The world never stays put for any second or minute, its up to the competitor to keep advancing, and introducing new elements into his or her program.
Patrick's program were perfect, according to his skill level, but other compeitiors' certainly will add somethnig newer, something more difficult, to win.

If you think Patrick can retire, study, spend all his time and money on university,without skating once a while, and hiring an knowledgeable coach (not a non-skating coach, again) to help him improve on his short comings, and add to his better moves, and come back to competitive skating, expecting the others guys to stand pat, on their hands, to wait and skate against him, you are dreaming!
 

evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Tung, you seem to be very well-informed about the niceties of Chan's career and life, so I was wondering if you could tell us exactly why Patrick decided to hire Kathy Johnson with her lack of substantive skating background as his coach for the most important season of his career? Most people seem to think it's because Kathy Johnson is his girlfriend's mother, but do you know if there's any other (perhaps more substantive) reasons?
 

tung

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 26, 2013
My suggestion is that he go to university, register and study, alright! But their are long breaks in between, Christmas/new year, Skiing week, March break, long summer holidays (assuming he is not taking a co-op course, with no gaps in between, typical U of T university courses) which he can use for his skating activities. He can even get financial returns by coaching/performing/guest appearing, coaching for commercial operations, most probably outside of Canada (Canada has no commercial rinks, therefore no ISI system, this is also one of the reason why men's skating is better? than other countries, Japan excepted, for all skating is under and follow the higher ISU standard, instead of the diluted ISI program for the amateurs, in other countries).considering that the Canadian public is not amourous with Patrick right now, and believe that he choked in Sochii.
 

tung

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 26, 2013
As I talked to the young talent, face to face, I realise that I can communicating with a very smart intelligent person, from a very supportive family. I actually went to his father's ancestral village in southern China (where Chan senior set sail, at age 5, for far away Canada) and got a reply from the village/township official to confirm Chan senior's identity and heritage record in that village. It is disappointing for Patrick that he did not have time to visit his father's ancestral village, and be received with all pomp and circumstance, by the folks at the village.But the officials did tell me, that they will receive Patrick and his family, with open arms, whenever they decide to visit them in the future. The former US ambassador to China, Mr. Lok, incidentally, comes from the same county that Chan senior came from, and Lok visit was much publicised and recorded in the Chinese media, when he visited his ancestral homeland 2 years ago.

Well, Canada is not short on men's World Champs, unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on the way you look at it, Patrick is just a continuation of the Canadian greats, starting in modern period, with Jackson, Browning, Orser, Stojko....... each of them getting 3 or 4 championships, in separate seasons. HIs status, is by no means unique. But in other parts of the world, he is or has been unique,adored and emulated constantly. I watched in interest as the Chinese up and coming men's single hopeful Yan, besides saying that Patrick was his hero, he actually introduced one of Patrick's heel clicking moves in his own Olympic program!

As to why Patrick hired Johnson, I was also surprised too, when learnt of that fact, but without going into family/private dormain, I can only surmise, that finances was the main reason, for Patrick's mom mentioned to me, that to nurture a skating talent, you need to spend millions, and that's not Japanese yen currency. She told me that when I expressed interest in lettng my 3 year old daughter start figure skating training, in local rinks. Without divulging any privacy, I can also remember that I was told that Patrick's learning period of the quad and its perfection, was done with great difficulty, lots of falls and tumbles, with the former female head coach in Colorado Springs working with him, after the Vancouver Olympics, and that according to the source, that Patrick's quad perfection also was done with input from the modern dance coach, Kathy Johnson, who introduced newer modern dance technique and muscle usage to Patrick's quad movements, and according to the source, convinced them that Kathy alone can replace all knowledgeable skating coaching staff.

But on hindsight, it was the same problem with lay non-skating outsiders, family members included, who judged and made vital and pivotal decisions, in lieu of expert professional opinion in the decision process. Well, Michelle Kwan, Kim Yuna were the predecessors of the Patrick experience, and Michelle never got an Olympic gold either, Yuna was lucky, she got one coaching under Orser, in Vancouver, but since returning home to her native childhood coaches, she was second the Russin Sonitkova in Sochii. They probably all believed that they were so great, they were unbeatable, and others would never catch up to them in time. But, of course, they were dead wrong!
 

tung

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 26, 2013
Did anyone notice that Patrick's jumps are different from other men skaters?
Some knowledgeable person mentioned to me, after watching the Olympic videos, that Patrick's jumps are parabolic in track, after taking off.
That to me, is definite proof of modern dance input, to Patrick's performances, for all dance movements, from classic ballet, to modern dance, employ the parabolic track after takeoff.
That's very difficult to achieve, and full of pratfalls, if executed under sub-par physical conditions, even if slightly sub-par, and extremely energy consuming, compared to the standard straight takeoff techniques by other skaters.
 

evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Thanks for the response, tung.

My suggestion is that he go to university, register and study, alright! But their are long breaks in between, Christmas/new year, Skiing week, March break, long summer holidays (assuming he is not taking a co-op course, with no gaps in between, typical U of T university courses) which he can use for his skating activities. He can even get financial returns by coaching/performing/guest appearing, coaching for commercial operations, most probably outside of Canada (Canada has no commercial rinks, therefore no ISI system, this is also one of the reason why men's skating is better? than other countries, Japan excepted, for all skating is under and follow the higher ISU standard, instead of the diluted ISI program for the amateurs, in other countries).considering that the Canadian public is not amourous with Patrick right now, and believe that he choked in Sochii.

Well....U of T doesn't have a skiing week or a March break, only a reading week in February with summer and winter breaks. Although it's possible to be a full-time student and skate at the same time, if Patrick wants to have a normal student experience at U of T, he'll probably want to do normal student things like take a semester abroad during the summer holidays or a trip with friends during reading week instead of skating all the time.
 

nimi

Medalist
Joined
Apr 7, 2014
Did anyone notice that Patrick's jumps are different from other men skaters?
Some knowledgeable person mentioned to me, after watching the Olympic videos, that Patrick's jumps are parabolic in track, after taking off.
That to me, is definite proof of modern dance input, to Patrick's performances, for all dance movements, from classic ballet, to modern dance, employ the parabolic track after takeoff.
That's very difficult to achieve, and full of pratfalls, if executed under sub-par physical conditions, even if slightly sub-par, and extremely energy consuming, compared to the standard straight takeoff techniques by other skaters.
Sounds intresting. It would be great if someone knowledgeable could explain this parabolic vs. "straight" takeoff thing in detail. Is it somehow also related to his "clean edge" axel take off vs. normal "skid" take off? (Sorry for returning to the same old 3a take off edge question once again...)
 

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
I, as another Canadian, but living overseas, cannot but remind you and other Patrick fans, that the most important item in all these discussions, whether the talent will continue skating or not, is not brought up at all. FINANCIAL ECONOMICS will be the decisive factor to whether the talent will compete or not. The last year has been tough, tougher than the former years, as the cost of maintaining coaching staff and technical input was always expensive. To the point that an expert skating coach was discarded, in return for a non-skating modern dance coach.

I believe this is absurd!!! Canada is a rich country, I believe the state should help the preparations of athletes!Patrick is 3 times WCH champion and he has many other great titles...The financial economics can't be problem for him!!!!
As did China and Russia ( in last some years Putin gave 90 billion rubles for the sport, I don't talk about construction of Sochi) My country isn't a rich, but the athletes receive many support from the government regardless of whether which party governs.
 

Meoima

Match Penalty
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
I believe this is absurd!!! Canada is a rich country, I believe the state should help the preparations of athletes!Patrick is 3 times WCH champion and he has many other great titles...The financial economics can't be problem for him!!!!
:thumbsup: This!!! I don't think PChan has problem with money. It's just whether or not he wants to continue, if so, when will he be ready to come back. That is my concern, cause he's still young, he can even go to the next Olympic.
 

Maria Victoria

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
^ Judging from this video (Patrick Chan: Story of the Silver Medalist Sochi 2014) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qY8svdEMdg (starting 16:55), there are financial considerations involved too. Patrick had to hold annual fundraising dinners in the Chinese Canadian community to help defray expenses for his skating which were basically borne by Patrick's family (read his parents). His father said that $160,000/year is a low estimate for the expenses for coaches, fees, etc. And of course as Kurt Borwning pointed out, figure skating now in Canada is not as financially rewarding as it was in Kurt's time.
 

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
^ Judging from this video (Patrick Chan: Story of the Silver Medalist Sochi 2014) http://www.youtube.com/watch?vqY8svdEMdg=- (starting 17:06), there are financial considerations involved too. Patrick has to hold annual fundraising dinners in the Chinese Canadian community to help defray expenses for his skating which are basically borne by Patrick's family (read his parents). His father said that $160,000/year is a low estimate for the expenses for coaches, fees, etc. And of course as Kurt Borwning pointed out, figure skating now in Canada is not as financially rewarding as it was in Kurt's time.

your link doesn't work...
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
I believe this is absurd!!! Canada is a rich country, I believe the state should help the preparations of athletes!Patrick is 3 times WCH champion and he has many other great titles...The financial economics can't be problem for him!!!!
As did China and Russia ( in last some years Putin gave 90 billion rubles for the sport, I don't talk about construction of Sochi) My country isn't a rich, but the athletes receive many support from the government regardless of whether which party governs.

Unfortunately, skating isn't as revered in Canada as professional sports. In Russia and Japan, of course, it is much more hugely popular.

Actually sport in general in Canada doesn't have a considerable focus compared to countries like Russia and China. I mean, we invest in it, but not nearly to the same degree, and you'll find less diehard sports fans who appreciate sports outside of the big 4 major league sports (basketball, football, baseball, hockey). I was actually pretty impressed with our medal haul in Sochi, as there is sometimes a tendency for a host nation to do poorly at the subsequent Olympics.
 
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